What do you think should happen with Derek Lalonde?

[Al48]

Read this very slowly,
You
Must
Ice
A
Hockey
Team
While
Your
Prospects
Develop.

The arrogance of this post is ridiculous. Relax dude. You do not know everything.

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

Yzerman is going to get fired for not firing Lalonde.

 

[1878rgw]

Yeah for sure man, so to do that let's give 4th liners 5.5 million just because they are from Michigan .

This rebuild is taking way too long. I'm gonna love coming back and reading all these posts from you Yzerman fanboys in 5 years when we're still not a playoff team. It's honestly so weird to me that fans like you continue to defend it like Yzerman is your uncle or something.

Look at Washington...they didn't even need to rebuild because their manager did a good job acquiring assets and retooling on the fly, meanwhile in Detroit, we haven't made the playoffs since the middle ages, but let's all just be patient and give Yzerman another decade here before we can criticize

You blame the wrong manager and the situations of the teams are different.

For me a rebuild is something like a new born child, think about what you were able to do as a 4 or 5 year old.

 

[DoMakc]

I couldn’t care less about Lalonde and think he is a coward and coaches like that. But i cannot understand how people think that losing your mind and screaming at others is a proper display of leadership and only thing that keeps others motivated. Says a lot about them actually.

 

[DanielMarois]

How many more times does the man need to spell it out?
Patience to build through the draft.
Prospects take 2-5 years to develop. So placeholders are signed in the meantime. Top UFAs don't want to come to Detroit so you pay a premium for your place holders (Copp, Compher, ect.)

Look at the expiring deals then look at current prospect development. The plan is so stupid simple to see. TikTok brainrot the lot of ya I swear.

The issue with this is that their #1 C is in his prime now. And the other issue is just how much of an offensive upside do Kasper/Danielson have? So even in 2-3 years if they are just 40-50 point players , will the team really be a lock for being the playoffs? And I am not so sure that guys like Copp and Compher were signed to just be placeholders, Copp was signed after he some good numbers playing with the NYR and I bet Yzerman expected more than what he has recieved.

 

[DTR]

At this point I’d hate to fire him and lose out on a potential top 5 pick

 

[dragonballgtz]

At this point I’d hate to fire him and lose out on a potential top 5 pick

I wanna fire him so Seider and Ed don't regress. Seider looks like he has plateaued a bit without really taking another step, which I believe he has in him.

 

[Winger98]

The issue with this is that their #1 C is in his prime now. And the other issue is just how much of an offensive upside do Kasper/Danielson have? So even in 2-3 years if they are just 40-50 point players , will the team really be a lock for being the playoffs? And I am not so sure that guys like Copp and Compher were signed to just be placeholders, Copp was signed after he some good numbers playing with the NYR and I bet Yzerman expected more than what he has recieved.

The only way Larkin would still be a 1C when we are realistically contending is if he maintains his level of play into his 30s, imo. Will the rebuild succeed? Don't know, that's the nature of rebuilds. I always thought the hope was to get enough talent to fill out a good chunk of our lineup, and to be able to then start dealing redundant prospects and picks to fill needs we weren't able to fill otherwise.

But there's always a chance this rebuild won't work, but the good news is that whatever happens next won't be with the total lack of everything Yzerman had when he started. The next GM should ave significantly more to work with from the start.

 

[Austrianwing]

Why doesn't Yzerman just trade Veleno for Draisaitl and a 2nd?

Holding out for a first...

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Lalonde has the best job security for being such a worthless coach that I’ve ever seen

 

[Pavels Dog]

9-8 in 5v5 scoring the last 5 games.

 

[Nnowski]

The season is already a write off, and finishing bottom 5 is crucial for the long term success of the team. Firing Lalonde now, just to get an extra 5-8pts and finish 25th is pointless. Seider and Edvinsson have stopped listening to Lalonde, they play aggressive offensively while still being elite defensively, no worries there. Raymond has great defensive metrics while on pace for 80+ points, no worries there either.

I worry that he's neutering Kasper's game by making him play too cautiously. We want him getting into scraps and pissing people off after the whistle, it's a great part of his game. But I think overall he'll be fine.

Lalonde is a horrendous offensive coach, but he's not really doing any damage. Having a losing culture obviously sucks, but years of losing goes away very quickly after your first playoff win. The biggest issue is Larkin, he's not gonna be a #1C by the time this team is competitive. Better pray for a Hagens/Misa or for Danielson/Kasper to explode.

 

[sepster]

They aren't progressing at all though, they are in fact regressing this year.

Where's the progress? A real GM would at least do something to make a statement and let it be known that it's not good enough.

Yzerman on the other hand is scared to make public appearances because he knows the product he has built is absolutely failing.

Be patient? Fine, most of his picks aren't here yet, so let's see what they can do once they arrive. In the meantime though it's ok for the manager to, you know, MANAGE the team. Make a trade, fire a coach, call someone up, waive someone...do something...do ANYTHING.

Yzerman is nowhere to be found, so yeah, I'm getting impatient with the Yzerplan, whatever that is.

If you wanna wait 15 years to watch playoff hockey, you do you man, but I'm getting tired of it and would at least like an explanation from the manager.


Top ufas don't want to come here, so lets block the kids by signing 4th liners to second liner money...what a plan!

There is so much garbage on this roster; from Copp to Compher, to Kane and Tarasenko, Veleno makes too much, Ras is overpaid. All that garbage and I didn't even mention a single defenceman because I don't have to, the whole league knows we have 2 solid young kids and a bunch of overpaid pylons.

Where is the progress?

Season point totals and Prospect Ranking:

'18-'19: 74
PR: 13

'19-'20: 39
PR: 9

'20-'21: 48
PR: 4

'21-'22: 74
PR: 2

'22-'23: 80
PR: 4

'23-'24: 91
PR: 2

Now, will the Wings improve on their point total this season? Doesn't look likely, but as I said, a rebuild is not linear. There will be steps forward and missteps along the way. Tampa Bay didn't take a linear path to back-to-back championships.

'10-'11: Playoffs (3rd Round)
'11-'12: Missed playoffs
'12-'13: Missed playoffs
'13-'14: Playoffs (1st Round)
'14-'15: Playoffs (Finals)
'15-'16: Playoffs (3rd Round)
'16-'17: Missed playoffs
'17-'18: Playoffs (3rd Round)
'18-'19: Playoffs (1st Round)
'16-'20: Playoffs (Champions)

Look at the Wings' season records and playoffs results for the 15 seasons preceding the '97 Championship and you will see a very similar up-and-down line of progress.

The important thing to watch, for me, is that the overall state of the organization continues to improve and the intentions driving managerial decisions. To the first part, I view the fact that the most important players on this team are Larkin and the young core (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper). Night in and night out, those are the best players on the team. That speaks to the drafting and development capability of the current management. Even with graduating that many young key players to the big club, the prospect pool still rates among the very best in the league. That is both important and a positive indictment of a strong organizational foundation. To the second part, while not every UFA and trade has been a success, I still believe the philosophy behind the individual actions is sound. The intended goal of trying to make the current on-ice team more competitive, not wanting the young players to be engrossed in a hopeless losing culture, while buying time for the prospect pool to mature and develop is sound. Again, not everything has worked as hoped for, but the plan is sound.

To address the assertion that Yzerman doesn't care, or is just going through the motions, or isn't managing.... it's not worth debating. Those are just the entitled ramblings and an impatient, short-sighted outlook.

 

[sepster]

The issue with this is that their #1 C is in his prime now. And the other issue is just how much of an offensive upside do Kasper/Danielson have? So even in 2-3 years if they are just 40-50 point players , will the team really be a lock for being the playoffs? And I am not so sure that guys like Copp and Compher were signed to just be placeholders, Copp was signed after he some good numbers playing with the NYR and I bet Yzerman expected more than what he has recieved.

Larkin's window is closed. When the Wings are in contention, he may still be the captain and emotional leader, but he won't be, he CAN'T be, the best player on the team. That was assured when his "core class" (i.e. Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hronek, and Rassmussen) flamed out.

Now, the focus turns to the next core class (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson). That is who the Wings are focused on building for. When that core reaches their prime. Hopefully, it works out or the wait will continue to the next core.

It's just like in the 80s and the core surrounding Yzerman (Probert, Gallant, Chaisson, Burr, Hanlon) then was promising but didn't work out. Then that was followed by Primeau, Ciccarelli, Coffey, Sheppard, Cheveldae, etc and they didn't work out. It wasn't until the Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Lapointe, McCarty core came into age that the team broke through. By that time Yzerman was the captain, the leader, the heart and he set the tone for the team, no doubt. But reality is, he was also no longer the best player on the team by then. He admits as much as he's said many times over the years, even when he was still playing, that Lidstrom was the most important player on the team once the Wings were consistent contenders.

 

[19 for president]

Larkin's window is closed. When the Wings are in contention, he may still be the captain and emotional leader, but he won't be, he CAN'T be, the best player on the team. That was assured when his "core class" (i.e. Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hronek, and Rassmussen) flamed out.

Now, the focus turns to the next core class (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson). That is who the Wings are focused on building for. When that core reaches their prime. Hopefully, it works out or the wait will continue to the next core.

It's just like in the 80s and the core surrounding Yzerman (Probert, Gallant, Chaisson, Burr, Hanlon) then was promising but didn't work out. Then that was followed by Primeau, Ciccarelli, Coffey, Sheppard, Cheveldae, etc and they didn't work out. It wasn't until the Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Lapointe, McCarty core came into age that the team broke through. By that time Yzerman was the captain, the leader, the heart and he set the tone for the team, no doubt. But reality is, he was also no longer the best player on the team by then. He admits as much as he's said many times over the years, even when he was still playing, that Lidstrom was the most important player on the team once the Wings were consistent contenders.

I fully believe Larkin's best hope for a cup with Detroit is an Yzerman like scenario. My biggest concern for him is that a lot of his game is more based around his skating than per say his hockey IQ. Its certainly above average but not elite. I am very curious to see how he ages. He's taken a lot of very hard minutes for the Wings throughout his career, much like Yzerman did early on in his.

 

[sepster]

I'm not confident Larkin's game is going to age well at all. As you pointed out, his game is skating and shot. When he loses half a step, his effectiveness is going to plummet. He is the anti-Igor Larionov. All physical, no mental.

 

[DanielMarois]

Larkin's window is closed. When the Wings are in contention, he may still be the captain and emotional leader, but he won't be, he CAN'T be, the best player on the team. That was assured when his "core class" (i.e. Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hronek, and Rassmussen) flamed out.

Now, the focus turns to the next core class (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson). That is who the Wings are focused on building for. When that core reaches their prime. Hopefully, it works out or the wait will continue to the next core.

It's just like in the 80s and the core surrounding Yzerman (Probert, Gallant, Chaisson, Burr, Hanlon) then was promising but didn't work out. Then that was followed by Primeau, Ciccarelli, Coffey, Sheppard, Cheveldae, etc and they didn't work out. It wasn't until the Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Lapointe, McCarty core came into age that the team broke through. By that time Yzerman was the captain, the leader, the heart and he set the tone for the team, no doubt. But reality is, he was also no longer the best player on the team by then. He admits as much as he's said many times over the years, even when he was still playing, that Lidstrom was the most important player on the team once the Wings were consistent contenders.

Sure, but Yzerman was a much better player and led the Wings in scoring in the regular season the two years in the 90's when they won the Cup and won a Conn Smythe. So if he wasn't the best player he was at worst second best. And Larkin was never a super elite scorer and is already showing signs of slowing down. And I am not saying the next core coming up won't be good, I am just not sure that we can just say everything will be fine in 2-3 years considering Kasper/Danielson have not yet shown they are a lock to be very good point producers.

 

[Gniwder]

I worry that he's neutering Kasper's game by making him play too cautiously. We want him getting into scraps and pissing people off after the whistle, it's a great part of his game. But I think overall he'll be fine.

I think that's a conscious decision that Kasper is making for himself, he needs to learn how to fight before taking on the bigger players in the NHL. Given his linemates, he's also fending for himself if he starts a scrum, he's got no help on the ice. He plays an effective game playing clean, he just needs linemates that can finish. Would be nice if he learned to finish on his own too.

I agree with your original point though, Lalonde is probably just here to babysit a bottom 5 finish. I think Martone is the only player that's guaranteed to play in the NHL next season. He might go #1 though, and there's no way the Wings finish last, Gary would have to rig the lottery for us.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm not confident Larkin's game is going to age well at all. As you pointed out, his game is skating and shot. When he loses half a step, his effectiveness is going to plummet. He is the anti-Igor Larionov. All physical, no mental.

The past 2 seasons, half of his goals and 1/3 of his assists are on the PP, where he doesn't rely so much on his speed. His SH% is much higher than it has been, and I don't think his shooting will drop off.

He does rely on his skating for ES scoring, so I think we need to expect that to drop off. He does protect the puck well, so he'll have to adjust and play more like Zetterberg as he slows down. I'm hoping for a slow decline in point production and not a cliff drop.

 

[sepster]

Sure, but Yzerman was a much better player and led the Wings in scoring in the regular season the two years in the 90's when they won the Cup and won a Conn Smythe. So if he wasn't the best player he was at worst second best. And Larkin was never a super elite scorer and is already showing signs of slowing down. And I am not saying the next core coming up won't be good, I am just not sure that we can just say everything will be fine in 2-3 years considering Kasper/Danielson have not yet shown they are a lock to be very good point producers.

Yzerman WAS a much better player than Larkin will ever dream to be. That only reinforces my point that Larkin will NOT be the Wings' best player if they reach contending status again.

And, yes, I also am not guaranteeing that the next core will get the job done, I was simply responding to you pointing out that Larkin is in his prime now. Well, I don't look at where Larkin is now as having much bearing on the long-term plan. His window is over. I get the sense that the current management feels the same.

 

[DanielMarois]

Yzerman WAS a much better player than Larkin will ever dream to be. That only reinforces my point that Larkin will NOT be the Wings' best player if they reach contending status again.

And, yes, I also am not guaranteeing that the next core will get the job done, I was simply responding to you pointing out that Larkin is in his prime now. Well, I don't look at where Larkin is now as having much bearing on the long-term plan. His window is over. I get the sense that the current management feels the same.

I think we're kind of saying the same thing, I am just saying Larkin being in his prime now is relevant for the future in terms of accounting for a possible dip in production from the center position.

 

[sepster]

I've been saying for a couple years now that the Wings will have to get a better 1C than Larkin if they want to reach the top tier of the NHL. Whether that is through draft luck, trade, signing, or outright theft, I don't know, but that's the reality they're in.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

9-8 in 5v5 scoring the last 5 games.

Now do pp.

 

[Oddbob]

I feel like kinda shitty move to not start Cossa but bring him in cold after Husso pooped the bed. Husso has proven he can only do so many starts in a row and then he needs a break. A kid is already going to be nervous but now you throw him out there while the team is playing like shit.

 

[Gniwder]

I feel like kinda shitty move to not start Cossa but bring him in cold after Husso pooped the bed. Husso has proven he can only do so many starts in a row and then he needs a break. A kid is already going to be nervous but now you throw him out there while the team is playing like shit.

Pretty common occurrence for a rookie goalie to get minutes in relief in his first couple of games. I picked a random goalie, and sure enough, Osgood got 2 games in relief before his first start. We all knew it was just a matter of time until Husso shit the bed, I'm sure even Lalonde saw it coming.

Cossa is the goaltender of the future, I'm sure his development is important enough for Stevie that he was in the discussion on how to handle his first game. Is it better to let him know ahead of time and have him lose sleep worried about the game or just put him in when the coach expects to lose the game? Probably depends on the player, but I don't have much issues with how this was handled. Wouldn't be too surprised if Husso starts the next game.

I have my fair share of criticism about Lalonde, but it's usually when he doesn't follow the usual decision making process for a NHL coach. This one is pretty standard.