TSN: What do you think about the whole canadian division?

[ACC1224]

Until we know the schedule it’s possible to predict anything but at first glance theway I see it, Calgary and Edmonton are for sure to make the playoffs with Mtl Tor and Van battling for the last two spots, assuming they get four teams.
Winnipeg may sneak up on someone and Ottawa will come out like gang busters for the first 15 games and then fade away.

I don’t see how either one of those are locks over the Leafs. All 3 most likely make it not sure in which order. There won’t be an equal amount of games which could factor in.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don’t see how either one of those are locks over the Leafs. All 3 most likely make it not sure in which order. There won’t be an equal amount of games which could factor in.

Leafs goaltending will always keep them in the middle of the pack and, although Bogosian adds a little jam, they didn’t address their lack of aggression. Especially up front.
Granted playing in a soft Canadian division may suit them fine.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Leafs goaltending will always keep them in the middle of the pack and, although Bogosian adds a little jam, they didn’t address their lack of aggression. Especially up front.
Granted playing in a soft Canadian division may suit them fine.

Senators will be far from soft, they got much tougher and also tallest team, and Habs also toughened up.

 

[koyvoo]

The division has a strange dynamic. We should finish on top, at least in terms of regular season standings. It’s probably the one division where there is no true powerhouse/cup contender and aside from Ottawa, all the teams can pretty much finish in any slot, depending on a lot variables that would play out during a season.

 

[Leafs87]

The division has a strange dynamic. We should finish on top, at least in terms of regular season standings. It’s probably the one division where there is no true powerhouse/cup contender and aside from Ottawa, all the teams can pretty much finish in any slot, depending on a lot variables that would play out during a season.

I was thinking this too. Although Winnipeg holds the true size advantage I’d say. Toronto has the skill advantage but likely bottom out in terms of size so the play style may be factor into overall standings

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The requirements from the players of all pay grades on the Leafs is clear. Compete better. If i see the same out score my mistakes and the disregard for defense team again it will ruin it for me. Getting to watch a all Canadian division and the opportunity to tell the entire Country we are the best....!

Thats what it represents just for the regular season play.

That’s completely not even touching on the 4 first round exits in a row because they have not put everything required to win together. This is talent being wasted,years being wasted. I have a expectation that they send a message for the country first who’s best and then we’ll worry about the rest of the league.
It’s not a easy division one little bit. Get serious about winning as a group and I’m thrilled at the chance to send a message. I think we are the best team in Canada and have underachievers.

So change that and this gets really fun for bragging rights.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I was thinking this too. Although Winnipeg holds the true size advantage I’d say. Toronto has the skill advantage but likely bottom out in terms of size so the play style may be factor into overall standings

Just click on column to sort by weight, height, age ,experience.
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

 

[Leafs87]

Just click on column to sort by weight, height, age ,experience.
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

That’s an average. Does not accurately depict what I’m talking about tbh.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[horner]

Senators will be far from soft, they got much tougher and also tallest team, and Habs also toughened up.

Yes they will a tough team that work and hits .
A fight or two

 

[TheTotalPackage]

It'll be good but I could also see it getting stale after a while. Would love to see an all-Canadian division when there are fans in the stands -- I think the intensity and rivalries would be dynamite.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Tampa and Boston are not in our division, so it should be a little easier for us to ascend to the top. Can't imagine the stars will align any better for us than they are now. GLG.

 

[Morgs]

Here's my ranking for Canadian division overall talent for Forwards, Defensemen, and Goalies. In brackets are the "impact" players (for goalies it's just projected starters), but the ranking as mentioned is for the overall depth of talent on the roster for each position. This is not me saying "McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH are the X best impact players", but it's me saying "Overall their F core is ranked X when including those guys".

--- tier levels.


Forwards:
1. Toronto (Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Marner)
---
2. Calgary (Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund)
3.Winnipeg (Wheeler, Ehlers, Scheifele, Laine, Connor)
---
4. Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins)
5. Montreal (Gallagher, Toffoli, Tatar, Suzuki)
6. Vancouver (Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Miller)
---
7. Ottawa (Tkachuk, Dadonov)

Toronto has the best four forwards of any team. The depth isn't fantastic on F as it's a lot of old guys & young guys we haven't seen enough of yet, but including Hyman, Mikheyev, Kerfoot, and Vesey as good middle-6 players, Thornton, Spezza, and Simmonds as vets who may have something left in the tank, and Robertson, Anderson, and Engvall as young guys that have already shown to have positive impacts makes us (imo) by far the best forward group in the Canadian division.

I'd argue Calgary and Winnipeg as almost ties in forward rankings. Their top three guys on each team (Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm/Wheeler, Ehlers/Scheifele) are ridiculously close (even though the Winnipeg players have bigger star power), but I prefer Monahan/Backlund to Laine/Connor as I think they're two of the most overrated players in the league. Both have good depth players (Mangiapane, Bennett, Leivo/Stastny, Perrault, Lowry), but I personally think I'd prefer Calgary's forwards.

Edmonton was the hardest one to rank for me because realistically it could be anywhere between 2 and 5. Nobody in the league boasts 2 talents like McD/Drai obviously, but I do think Drai is very overrated. I think he's ahead of Tavares today, but I think Matthews is well ahead of Drai. Outside of those two, they have Nuge and Yamamoto who are both excellent players.... and then nothing. Is their 5th best player Kassian? Ennis? Neal? I know you can have McD/Drai on the ice for 50 minutes a game- especially in a shortened season, but their defensive awfulness + literally no depth to me puts them behind Calgary/Winnipeg and slightly ahead of Montreal.

I hate to say it, but I like Montreal's team. Their coach I think is fantastic, but their team is full of guys that Edmonton wishes they could have behind McD/Drai/Nuge. Gallagher is a borderline star. Toffoli & Tatar are very good players. Suzuki is one of my favourites before he was traded to Montreal. Danault, Anderson, Lehkonen, Armia are all good middle-6 (or better players). Not to mention Drouin could finally hit, and Kotka may be able to figure out his shit. Other than Gallagher nobody really stands out, but they are 10 forwards deep worth of "good players".

Vancouver is a mess like Edmonton, but their star power isn't nearly as close. I think EP40 is probably the 3rd best player in the entire division (after McD/Matthews), but after him there's no Drai and there might not even be a guy as good as RNH. Sure Boeser & Horvat are very good and so is J.T. Miller, but after those three guys....... there's not a single guy I'd want on the Leafs besides maybe a healthy Ferland. Benning may be a fantastic drafter, but the contracts he gives out, woof.

Well, Ottawa has Tkachuk (who's a star) and Dadonov. Brown & White are decent, but other than that it's a bunch of meh and non-star level young players coming into play. Maybe Batherson, Brown, and Stutzle can make them better but I'm not convinced they're even on Vancouver's level. Remember when people were like "Ottawa is close to Toronto".... lol okay.

Defensemen:
1. Toronto (Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, Dermott)
2. Calgary (Giordano, Andersson, Hanifin, Tanev)
3. Montreal (Petry, Weber, Chiarot)
---
4. Vancouver (Hughes, Schmidt)
5. Edmonton (Barrie, Nurse, Larsson)
---
---
6. Winnipeg (Morrissey, DeMelo)
7. Ottawa (Chabot)

This one is much closer for Toronto. Sure I think their defense is criminally underrated, especially after Keefe took over, but this is a team that has four 1st pair impact defenseman. Nobody else in this entire division have more than two. Sure Dermott comp, blah blah, but it's similar for Andersson. Not to mention we have Holl, Lehtonen, Bogosian, Sandin, and Liljegren who are all NHL level at varying degrees.

Calgary still has Gio who is still a star, but took a step back in 19-20 and isn't probably the best defenseman in the Canadian division any more. Andersson is a soon-to-be star, slightly ahead of Dermott for me, and with Hanifin and Tanev you could do much worse to round out your top-4. They also have Valimaki and Kylington hopefully (not) ready to make an impact.

Montreal is another underrated defensive team. Their coach deserves so much credit, but Petry and Weber are both still fantastic top-pairing quality defenseman. Chiarot came out of nowhere to become something, Kulak and Petry were one of the best pairings in the league last season, and they have Romanov hopefully (not) ready to make an impact. Edmunson is trash, so hopefully they use him in the top-4.

And then the defense in the Canadian division falls off a f***ing cliff. Vancouver has arguably the best top-pairing in the division with Hughes and Schmidt, and then.... Edler? Myers? Sure they're kind of "big names" but they're both not overly good anymore. Idk man.

Edmonton. Their best defenseman Klefbom is out for the season. Barrie could be nice, but it's more bad defensive play on a bad defensive team. Nurse and Larsson are fine, but overrated. They really gotta hope Bear, Jones, Bouchard, and Broberg figure it out, hopefully (not) this season.

What happened to Winnipeg's defense. Their best defenseman might actually be DeMelo as Morrissey has been getting crushed as a #1. Other than those two though... it's bleak. Pionk? Sbiza? Beaulieu? Forbert? Better hope Heinola can come in and be a saviour.

Ottawa "on the Leafs tails" have Chabot.... and hopefully Brannstrom. But filling your other four spots with Zaitsev, Gudbranson, Reilly and Brown is horrible lol.

Goalies:
1. Winnipeg (Hellebuyck)
---
2. Calgary (Markstrom)
---
3. Toronto (Andersen)
4. Montreal (Price)
5. Edmonton (Koskinen)
---
---
---
6. Ottawa (Murray)
7. Vancouver (Holtby)

This one I did mathamatically. I took each goalies GSAA + their GSAx and added them together with a .75 multiple on 18-19 and 1x multiple on 19-20.

Helley and Markstrom are the only goalies with two positive seasons in a row, with Helley's 2019-20 being the best in the league. He's easily the best goalie in the division, and I'd bet on Markstrom being #2.

Andersen, Price, Holtby and Murray had good/great 2018-19's, but their 2019-20's were all much (to a varying degree) worse. Koskinen is saved by his steller 19-20 (don't forget how bad Edmonton is defensively), which makes him slightly ahead of Price by the numbers, but I'd bet on Price over Koskinen.

Murray had one good season in 18-19 and had the 2nd worst season of any of these goalies in 2019-20. Holtby was good in 18-19 and the worst goalie in 19-20. They are very clearly the worst two goalies in the division right now.

Overall Rankings:
1. Toronto (1st / 1st / 3rd)
2. Calgary (2nd / 2nd / 2nd)
---
3. Winnipeg (3rd / 6th / 1st)
4. Edmonton (4th / 5th / 5th)
5. Montreal (5th / 3rd / 4th)
---
Vancouver (6th / 4th / 7th)
---
Ottawa (7th / 7th / 6th)


I think it's pretty clear that Toronto and Calgary have the best two teams overall. Player-wise I don't think anyone touches Toronto, and if Fred/Campbell can actually save the puck we're going to dominate the division imo. Calgary to me is almost as well rounded, but the better goaltending could really help them.

Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Montreal are all pretty close. I'd argue Montreal is most well-rounded, but Winnipeg's goaltending could literally carry them into first place, especially with their great forward core. Edmonton has gotta hope Koskinen keeps it together with arguably a worse defense-core and no significant adds on offense.

Vancouver losing their 2nd best defenseman, imo 2nd best forward, and imo 2nd best goalie (for the 7th best) in the division is a gigantic blow. Sure they grabbed Nate Schmidt who is better than Tanev, but outside of their 1st line and 1st pair there really isn't much to write home about.

Ottawa still is probably the worst team in the league, and I honestly don't know who could be worse.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When does y'all think these (bettman was a saviour last season and did everythang correctly), but now when does y'all think these fools will announce anything? There's only 3 weeks to the planned training camps and still no announcement? Gittin weird sire. This week no?

No apparently the roster and taxi squad rules are causing difficulties between teams/owners. It is issues of how to deal with CBA and CAP. Depending how it comes out teams may be able to manipulate da CAP a bit this year. And many owners are worried about funding excess costs of these extra guys at NHL wages. Sounds like nickel and diming to me. Da players don't care as much but still more guys splitting things 50/50. and i hear 1 team is really bitching about which division they are going into. probably a team not into Jacobs pack.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Here is my best guess
1. Leafs
2. Habs
3. Canucks


4. Jets
5. Oilers
6. Flames

7. Sens

The top 3 teams will make playoffs easy. Jets and Oilers will fight for last spot. Flames will be close. Sens will have much better games but still 7th.

 

[TMLAM34]

Edmonton probably had the best off-season in the entire league. Adding a third line center in Turris was a fantastic move, Puljujarvi returning to the organization could be huge given how well he played in Finland last year and even while on loan for their 20-21 season. Kahun was a nice low key signing to provide some depth scoring. And if Bouchard can step in finally and be as good as his potential is, they're probably at the top of the Canadian division.

Edmonton
Toronto
Winnipeg
Montreal
Vancouver
Calgary
Ottawa

 

[Menzinger]

The Leafs have a decent chance to take 1st in the divison. Not a lock, but don't blink if it happens.

Senators will be lucky if they're not bottom 5 in the league by seasons end.

 

[Morgs]

Edmonton probably had the best off-season in the entire league. Adding a third line center in Turris was a fantastic move, Puljujarvi returning to the organization could be huge given how well he played in Finland last year and even while on loan for their 20-21 season. Kahun was a nice low key signing to provide some depth scoring. And if Bouchard can step in finally and be as good as his potential is, they're probably at the top of the Canadian division.

Edmonton
Toronto
Winnipeg
Montreal
Vancouver
Calgary
Ottawa

Best off-season in the entire league? Are you secretly Turris' father?

You didn't even mention their best move in getting Barrie lmao. Kyle Turris has been one of the worst players in the league (especially defensively) the last two years. He is not a good add, he's a depth add you hope bounces back for a team that was desperate for any semblance of depth that costed nothing. Kahun is fine, but that's like Vesey to your roster and getting excited. Their forwards are so bleak after McD, Drai, Nuge, and Yamamoto, and their defense is going to miss their only player I'd consider better than a #4 the entire season. That coupled with a goalie best described as "meh" would not convince me they're remotely close to the top of the division.

And having Calgary down that far is insane to me.

In the Canadian division alone I'd argue all of:

Toronto (+Brodie, Lehtonen, Thornton, Vesey / -Kap, Johnsson)
Montreal (+Toffoli, Anderson, Edmundson / -Domi)
Calgary (+Markstrom, Tanev, -Brodie)
Ottawa (+Dadonov, Murray)

had better off-seasons than Edmonton, and I don't know if I'd put any of them in the top-5 in the league other than Toronto and that's almost soley due to Brodie and the Kapanen trade.

 

[TMLAM34]

Best off-season in the entire league? Are you secretly Turris' father?

You didn't even mention their best move in getting Barrie lmao. Kyle Turris has been one of the worst players in the league (especially defensively) the last two years. He is not a good add, he's a depth add you hope bounces back for a team that was desperate for any semblance of depth that costed nothing. Kahun is fine, but that's like Vesey to your roster and getting excited. Their forwards are so bleak after McD, Drai, Nuge, and Yamamoto, and their defense is going to miss their only player I'd consider better than a #4 the entire season. That coupled with a goalie best described as "meh" would not convince me they're remotely close to the top of the division.

And having Calgary down that far is insane to me.

In the Canadian division alone I'd argue all of:

Toronto (+Brodie, Lehtonen, Thornton, Vesey / -Kap, Johnsson)
Montreal (+Toffoli, Anderson, Edmundson / -Domi)
Calgary (+Markstrom, Tanev, -Brodie)
Ottawa (+Dadonov, Murray)

had better off-seasons than Edmonton, and I don't know if I'd put any of them in the top-5 in the league other than Toronto and that's almost soley due to Brodie and the Kapanen trade.

Why is Barrie their best move? I'd argue that Puljujarvi rejoining the organization is a bigger move/addition than Barrie.

 

[Buds17]

I generally don't like making such predictions. However, not having to directly compete with both of Tampa and Boston makes me optimistic about seeing upward mobility in Toronto's regular season finish. If so, the hope is that bodes well come playoff time.

 

[Morgs]

Why is Barrie their best move? I'd argue that Puljujarvi rejoining the organization is a bigger move/addition than Barrie.

That's like saying Romanov joining the Habs or Kaprizov joining the Wild is an offseason move. They're in the organization already. Kaprizov is way better of a player than Puljujarvi too, so should we say the Wild had the best offseason?

Not to mention even then Puljujarvi has not shown NHL ability as of yet. Pretty sad for a "best move" if you consider them to have the "best offseason" of any team.

 

[Fogelhund]

This one is much closer for Toronto. Sure I think their defense is criminally underrated, especially after Keefe took over, but this is a team that has four 1st pair impact defenseman..

The Leafs have four 1st pairing impact defenseman? Really? I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here... let's at least have a good defensive team, before we heap these types of accolades on our players.

I mean, I do think your rankings are close. Vancouver might bomb out though, as they have a terrible record the last three years against Canadian teams... last year too. At least it will be entertaining and different.

 

[Morgs]

The Leafs have four 1st pairing impact defenseman? Really?

Yeah. Based on GAR all of Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, and Dermott have 1st pairing impact (one of the best 62 overall impacts in the NHL).

Three of them play top pair-style minutes and one played as a 4/5 last year and dominated his minutes to the point of him having the impact of one of the best 62 defenseman in hockey.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The Leafs have four 1st pairing impact defenseman? Really? I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here... let's at least have a good defensive team, before we heap these types of accolades on our players.

I mean, I do think your rankings are close. Vancouver might bomb out though, as they have a terrible record the last three years against Canadian teams... last year too. At least it will be entertaining and different.

Yea, I thought about commenting, but sometimes it’s better not to say anything at all.

 

[Morgs]

I mean, we can look at xGA/60 & CA/60 to see which teams gave up the most good chances and shots per 60 minutes. When Keefe took over on Nov 21, 2019 we ranked for the rest of the season:

5v5 xGA/60 - 15th
5v5 CA/60 - 13th

All-situations xGA/60 - 10th
All-situations CA/60 - 14th

We were a top half of the league defensive team when Keefe took over, something Babcock never was able to get out of the team. We have to remember that was the majority of the time we were missing at least one of Muzzin or Rielly, and we're adding a very good defensive/transition defenseman in Brodie to the mix.

Also, I wasn't saying Dermott is a 1st pairing defenseman, I was saying his GAR impact was one of the best 62 defenseman in the league, which means his overall impact is of a first pairing defenseman quality. Same as Muzzin, same as Brodie, same as Rielly. Also, just because I think our defenseman are the best in the division, that doesn't mean they're the best defensively. Obviously defense and defenseman are intrinsically linked, but defenseman provide lots of value besides defense that make up their overall value. It's like looking at points for forwards and ranking them based on that.