What do you hope the roster looks like in 2 years?

[Paisano*]

I'm sure that's it. The guy who had zero NHL front office experience six years ago and has never been a GM will take over and everything will magically and immediately be better.

Well yea, JD has respect, SC has none! Sorry bout that mayor but your son Howson is a laughingstock!

 

[Mayor Bee]

Well yea, JD has respect, SC has none! Sorry bout that mayor but your son Howson is a laughingstock!

That's one of the most asinine things I've ever seen on these boards.

 

[Paisano*]

That's one of the most asinine things I've ever seen on these boards.

go look at some of your own posts, you'll see a lot more!

 

[Mayor Bee]

go look at some of your own posts, you'll see a lot more!

The only time my posts contain anything asinine is when they start off with "Originally posted by JBum".

The pervasive and seemingly nonstop attitude about next offseason automatically being better by the presence of John Davidson strikes me as similar to the couple that says, "Our relationship is in trouble. Let's have a baby; that will solve EVERYTHING!"

As of this moment, the following are facts:
- John Davidson is not the GM
- John Davidson has never been a GM
- John Davidson has exactly six years of front office experience in his life

With this in mind, it is absolutely ridiculous to deduce from that that John Davidson would make an excellent GM who would immediately be able to draw top-level free agents. Now, who made that deduction?

Good FA's might consider coming here with JD calling the shots and he sends Howson packing.

I'll point out that there is a longtime former GM (Craig Patrick) sitting in the front office. He's got a few years of coaching, a few years as an assistant, international experience, and about 25 years as an NHL GM. Is Craig Patrick enough of a draw because of "credibility" and "respect" and "experience"? Or do we have to recognize that, perhaps, free agents look at a variety of things not necessarily related to any of that?

Minnesota has a terrible owner (Craig Leipold) and a decent GM (Chuck Fletcher), yet they were able to get the two biggest free agent prizes in recent history together. And that was over several teams who possess vast amounts more "credibility" and "respect" and "money".

 

[EspenK]

Well, when I say no free agents worth having would come here, it's not being negative. That's a good thing if it forces us to draft well and develop our own. Stop trying to land a savior - names like Fedorov, Richardson, LaChance, Foote and Jeff Carter are as much of our problem as all those names of 1st round busts frequently thrown around here.

I pretty much agree with you but if they would come for a reasonable price wouldn't you take Getzlaff & Perry?

They are young enough that they could make an impact for a long time, seem to fit the image the Jackets are trying to establish and could provide some much needed scoring.

 

[Dr. Fire]

I pretty much agree with you but if they would come for a reasonable price wouldn't you take Getzlaff & Perry?

They are young enough that they could make an impact for a long time, seem to fit the image the Jackets are trying to establish and could provide some much needed scoring.

*drool*

 

[NotWendell]

The only time my posts contain anything asinine is when they start off with "Originally posted by JBum".

The pervasive and seemingly nonstop attitude about next offseason automatically being better by the presence of John Davidson strikes me as similar to the couple that says, "Our relationship is in trouble. Let's have a baby; that will solve EVERYTHING!"

As of this moment, the following are facts:
- John Davidson is not the GM
- John Davidson has never been a GM
- John Davidson has exactly six years of front office experience in his life

With this in mind, it is absolutely ridiculous to deduce from that that John Davidson would make an excellent GM who would immediately be able to draw top-level free agents. Now, who made that deduction?

I don't remember reading anywhere that JBum said JD would attract these free agents AS A GM?!? I took his post to mean him being here as President of Hockey Operations with his success in St. Louis as a track record would attract free agents.

If you're hung up on the years put in rather than what was put in the years, Craig Patrick negates any "lack of experience" in the front office.

That said, guys, let's not make this personal and fight amongst ourselves.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Free agents sign for one of three reasons:

Financial - The CBJ have signed guys because they over pay or give an extra year or two - guys like Wiz and Adam Foote. These guys have had success in the NHL but are no longer "elite". They may be a real good complimentary player ona good team, or may be a good player on a bad team, either way this guy wants his money and security. Doesn't mean he is a selfish player just means he's been good enough to get a big offer and he wants to cash in. Probably most of these guys have the ego to think thewy can turn things around.

Ice/Playing Time - Other guys might sign with the CBJ as an opportunity to play in the NHL or get a 1 way contract or play on a top pairing. A guy like Todd Marchant who was viewed by every other team as a 3rd/4th line C gets the opportunity to be a top line C. These guys may be older and looking to break out from his role, he may be younger and looking for an opportunity, or may be a guy who has been shuffling between the AHL and NHL for a few years. His goal is not winning but trying to prove himself.

Winning - This is the guy we can't attract. The guy in the prime of his career that wants to play for a cup. He wants to make a fair salary but won't go to a bad team for more money or more years, or the ability to get more time on the ice UNLESS he truly thinks they are going forward (getting better).

That's the 3 reasons 98% of players go to a team. There are others (hometown team or the wife wants to be somewhere) but even in those situations they still usually fit into one of the categories above. Just because we have JD doesn't mean guys will want to come here unless we offer more money or more playing time.
What JD can help do is get the team playiong better so free agents would be able to say "hey look these guys have bone from 15th, to 11th and they are becoming a good team. They play the way I play and I think I fit in there. I can go there and we can be a playoff team".
bottom line we won't be able to attract top tier talent via free agency until we show we can win. Once we show we can win then we can find the right peices to throw us over the top, but we've never been to that place yet. Immediately after our playoff year the players had their mutiny and refused to play for Hitch and got him fired. That was the only time we were close, and ownership sided with the players instead of the one guy who turned us around.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I don't remember reading anywhere that JBum said JD would attract these free agents AS A GM?!? I took his post to mean him being here as President of Hockey Operations with his success in St. Louis as a track record would attract free agents.

If you're hung up on the years put in rather than what was put in the years, Craig Patrick negates any "lack of experience" in the front office.

That said, guys, let's not make this personal and fight amongst ourselves.

Fair enough. Here's the list of unrestricted free agents that the Blues signed during the Davidson tenure. I've skipped 2006 because he was hired on June 30 and free agency began the next day, minimizing the chance that there was any real impact from the hire.

2007
Paul Kariya
Micki Dupont
Alex Brooks
Mike Johnson

2008
Matt Foy
Steve Regier
Brad Winchester
Mike Weaver

2009
Ty Conklin
Adam Cracknell
Barry Tallackson
Brenden Bell
Derek Armstrong
Darryl Sydor

2010
Brennan Evans
Nathan Oystrick
Dave Scatchard
Dean Arsene
David Spina
Marek Svatos (signed and immediately lost on waivers)

2011
Matt D'Agostini
Brian Elliott (two-way contract, by the way)
Kent Huskins
Brett Sterling
Scott Nichol
Jamie Langenbrunner
Jason Arnott
Jonathan Cheechoo
Danny Syvret

I'm not saying that Davidson wouldn't make a good GM if it came to that. I'm merely saying that the idea of all that experience and respect actually meaning that it would automatically happen isn't the case. I mean, I do follow other sports closely as well...there are several examples of exactly this type of thing happening.

 

[NotWendell]

Fair enough. Here's the list of unrestricted free agents that the Blues signed during the Davidson tenure. I've skipped 2006 because he was hired on June 30 and free agency began the next day, minimizing the chance that there was any real impact from the hire.

That list looks rather Blue Jackety.

 

[Mayor Bee]

That list looks rather Blue Jackety.

Well, just for comparison...

2007
Sheldon Brookbank
Jiri Novotny
Jan Hejda
Dan Smith
Derek MacKenzie
Kris Beech
Mike Peca

2008
Mike Commodore
Kristian Huselius
John Vigilante
Craig MacDonald
Steve Kelly

2009
Mathieu Garon
Sammy Pahlsson
Pascal Pelletier
Mathieu Roy

2010
Kyle Wilson
Nate Guenin
Ben Guite

2011
James Wisniewski*
Aaron Johnson
Andrew Joudrey
Curtis Sanford
Mark Dekanich
Nick Drazenovic
Alexandre Giroux
Martin St. Pierre
Radek Martinek
Dane Byers
Cody Bass
Vinny Prospal

I could argue that Columbus actually made bigger moves in free agency than St. Louis did. Of course, Davidson arriving in St. Louis also had a hell of a lot more talent than Howson inherited in Columbus, and their awful 2005-06 season was largely related to pretty much every key player being injured for long stretches of time. And of course, they also had a lot more talent in the pipeline from the 2000-06 drafts as well...

 

[Paisano*]

The only time my posts contain anything asinine is when they start off with "Originally posted by JBum".

The pervasive and seemingly nonstop attitude about next offseason automatically being better by the presence of John Davidson strikes me as similar to the couple that says, "Our relationship is in trouble. Let's have a baby; that will solve EVERYTHING!"

As of this moment, the following are facts:
- John Davidson is not the GM
- John Davidson has never been a GM
- John Davidson has exactly six years of front office experience in his life

With this in mind, it is absolutely ridiculous to deduce from that that John Davidson would make an excellent GM who would immediately be able to draw top-level free agents. Now, who made that deduction?



I'll point out that there is a longtime former GM (Craig Patrick) sitting in the front office. He's got a few years of coaching, a few years as an assistant, international experience, and about 25 years as an NHL GM. Is Craig Patrick enough of a draw because of "credibility" and "respect" and "experience"? Or do we have to recognize that, perhaps, free agents look at a variety of things not necessarily related to any of that?

Minnesota has a terrible owner (Craig Leipold) and a decent GM (Chuck Fletcher), yet they were able to get the two biggest free agent prizes in recent history together. And that was over several teams who possess vast amounts more "credibility" and "respect" and "money".

Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal, you make no sense. Craig Patrick is nothing but an advisor, he has no power. JD is over everyone, what he wants is what's going to happen. He knows what he is doing, Howson has proven he doesn't, what you see in him God only knows! I hope he, SH, is successful, I want him to win, I want him to be executive of the year, but it aint happenin!! Nuff' said!

 

[EspenK]

To try and get this back on topic, I was just looking at cap Geek and was reminded that Umbie has a NTC for this and next year as well as a modified (whatever the heck that is) NTC for at least the two following seasons. Ugh! So unless the modified allows a trade to an approved team or something like that, I guess Umbie is still here.

On the positive there are only four forwards signed through the 2014-15 season so in theory we could add 9 new guys, although it is presumably a no brainer that CAM & Joey will be resigned as well as Anisimov. So that leaves 6 new spots. Hopefully we strike offensive gold in the next two drafts.

 

[pete goegan]

Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal, you make no sense.

Oh, good, now I have no excuse to argue with you, you wouldn't understand, anyway.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal, you make no sense. Craig Patrick is nothing but an advisor, he has no power. JD is over everyone, what he wants is what's going to happen. He knows what he is doing, Howson has proven he doesn't, what you see in him God only knows! I hope he, SH, is successful, I want him to win, I want him to be executive of the year, but it aint happenin!! Nuff' said!

The whole purpose of an advisor is to advise the person who hired him. Since people above Howson hired Craig Patrick, that means that his input would have been taken on any of a number of things.

Consider that, since Patrick was brought on, the following things have happened:
- Firing Scott Arniel
- Re-signing Prospal to a one-year extension with NTC, despite the feeling around the league being that someone would pay at least a 2nd-rounder to get him at the trade deadline
- Trading Antoine Vermette
- Trading Jeff Carter for Johnson and the 1st
- Hiring Brad Larsen as Springfield's head coach
- Trading for Sergei Bobrovsky
- Going through the entire 2012 draft process
- Trading Methot for Foligno
- Signing Aucoin, McElhinney, and Audy-Marchessault in a single day
- And last but clearly not least, going through over six months of the Rick Nash trade saga before he was finally moved

Now then, do you seriously think that if Craig Patrick went to Mike Priest and said, "This guy's screwing up big-time, and I think we need to look elsewhere", that his opinion would have been ignored? If what we've heard is true and that Howson is on an evergreen contract year-to-year, it would be easy to cut ties if Craig Patrick advised as such. I mean, it's not like he himself has 25 years experience as a GM or anything...

So basically, we have what appears to be the tacit (and possibly vocal) approval of Craig Patrick to the powers-that-be. So far, we have the same from John Davidson. I'm fairly certain that both of their opinions matter a hell of a lot more than yours or mine.