what do the Leafs do on offense?

notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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People want big change... over half the cap has been used by Treliving (~$50 million), so why do people think we will see big change? He's had the chance already.
Big change meaning top four?

He's signed the two best for slight overpayments, and the other two he can't do anything with until next summer.

Plus Shanny and Tre could be gone, meaning new gm and new direction.
I'd love to see Shanahan gone. Tre hasn't done anything particularly bad yet.
 
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notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Big change meaning top four?

He's signed the two best for slight overpayments, and the other two he can't do anything with until next summer.

He tried to trade the 3rd best player we had, didn't work, so he re-signed him to a contract that is more than he is worth.

He had a window to trade the 2nd best player before his NMC kicked in.

He had opportunities, but he didn't change anything.

I'd love to see Shanahan gone. Tre hasn't done anything particularly bad yet.

He's overpaid for 75% of the players he has signed... it's not just the stars who are getting overpaid now, it's everyone.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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I also don't know if Berube is a good coach... his overall record is similar to Keefe's (including playoffs), he just had one good season with a team that everyone says in another thread is way better than ours, but the majority of his career is terrible.

I guess we will see.
No, we can safely say he is an upgrade on Keefe. Keefe couldn't adjust.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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Big change meaning top four?

He's signed the two best for slight overpayments, and the other two he can't do anything with until next summer.


I'd love to see Shanahan gone. Tre hasn't done anything particularly bad yet.
Tre isn't bad but a new Pres may have some super Gm, his guy. We are talking losing first round again. It's already old.

Can you detail the times Berube has adjusted for me? Would love to learn more about him.
The debate is, is Berube a better coach for us? I can count the number of times Keefe adjusted. It was zero. Teams marvelled at our refusal to adjust. So did O Reilly.
 
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notbias

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The debate is, is Berube a better coach for us? I can count the number of times Keefe adjusted. It was zero. Teams marvelled at are refusal to adjust.

What is considered adjusting? Maybe you can't keep up with the game, but he certainly adjusted lines and systems multiple times.

But you are claiming Berube adjusts his coaching, so I am just asking for examples. It'd be idiotic to claim someone does without knowing how they coach, and there is no way you did that.
 

darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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What is considered adjusting? Maybe you can't keep up with the game, but he certainly adjusted lines and systems multiple times.

But you are claiming Berube adjusts his coaching, so I am just asking for examples. It'd be idiotic to claim someone does without knowing how they coach, and there is no way you did that.
Let me keep this simple. Keefe blew chunks. Berube is an upgrade. He won't coddle the top 4.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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There is a zero percent chance of that happening if you’re insinuating a rebuild.

Leafs definitely won’t be rebuilding but unless we see some rejuvenation of the team from the youth in the system already, this team is probably on a post championship fade away minus the championship. This build has lost a lot of momentum.
 

HolyCrap

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Oct 2, 2015
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Leafs definitely won’t be rebuilding but unless we see some rejuvenation of the team from the youth in the system already, this team is probably on a post championship fade away minus the championship. This build has lost a lot of momentum.
Yup. And unless the team goes deep this year or following it will go down as a historically terrible playoff team. They have won one round with this team. That’s pathetic.
 
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Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Leafs definitely won’t be rebuilding but unless we see some rejuvenation of the team from the youth in the system already, this team is probably on a post championship fade away minus the championship. This build has lost a lot of momentum.
We missed out best compete window when our GM handed out UFA contracts to RFA players and now those players don't work together for success and they fail while consuming the largest Cap Space contracts in the NHL. Its a terrible position for our new GM to inherit but there will be walk away options next year to force desired change...

However in the meantime I would suggest that Leafs try and embrace this difficult situation and say for example find some +35 year old vets willing to come in on cheaper/special contracts to help push this team forward.. A perfect example would be approach a player like Jonathan Toews (who sat out last year suffering from long term Covid) but apparently has improved and willing to listen to NHL return.

Bring in Captain serious with all his Cup history and knowledge to perhaps centre a 2nd/3rd line, with the lure of joining an original 6 team in CANADA and bring a championship home. Toews turned 36 now on a +35 contract low base +bonuses. This would be similar to when Leafs tried to bring Ronnie Francis or Eric Lindros or a Brian Leetch.
 

notbias

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Wrong you ignored the facts out of convenience to support your slant. Boston twice and OReilly spoke about it.

What did Boston and O'Reilly say?

There are tons of articles about Keefe making adjustments if you want to become educated (not sure you do).

We missed out best compete window when our GM handed out UFA contracts to RFA players and now those players don't work together for success and they fail while consuming the largest Cap Space contracts in the NHL. Its a terrible position for our new GM to inherit but there will be walk away options next year to force desired change...

However in the meantime I would suggest that Leafs try and embrace this difficult situation and say for example find some +35 year old vets willing to come in on cheaper/special contracts to help push this team forward.. A perfect example would be approach a player like Jonathan Toews (who sat out last year suffering from long term Covid) but apparently has improved and willing to listen to NHL return.

Bring in Captain serious with all his Cup history and knowledge to perhaps centre a 2nd/3rd line, with the lure of joining an original 6 team in CANADA and bring a championship home. Toews turned 36 now on a +35 contract low base +bonuses. This would be similar to when Leafs tried to bring Ronnie Francis or Eric Lindros or a Brian Leetch.

Your solution to solve everything is to bring in a player who is on the verge of retiring, hasn't played in a year, and was getting worse year after year.

How do you come up with so many bad ideas?
 

Aashir Mallik

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Apr 19, 2019
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Blow up. Shanny gone, Tre gone, Tavares not re signed, Marner walks, Reilly gone. New Gm and Woll gets injured again. Pretty substantial change. You keep Mathews and Nylander and get a true number one G.
It’s a nice pipe dream but I don’t see it

If they didn’t blow it up after this year, it’s not happening

With Matthews and nylander out with injuries we needed Marner and Tavares to step up, they didn’t. They failed spectacularly and we still kept them

We needed rielly to provide, he didn’t and he’s still here

We lost to a team that had 2 forwards who’d crack our top 6

I bet Marner plays better next year and the heat dies off him and gets thrown at one of nylander and Matthews and we repeat this
 
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notDatsyuk

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He tried to trade the 3rd best player we had, didn't work, so he re-signed him to a contract that is more than he is worth.

He had a window to trade the 2nd best player before his NMC kicked in.

He had opportunities, but he didn't change anything.
He had an opportunity to trade the third best player, but only for a month when he first arrived. That window closed quickly. I hope he doesn't re-sign him next summer when his contract ends, unless it's for a much more reasonable amount.
 

notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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Tre isn't bad but a new Pres may have some super Gm, his guy. We are talking losing first round again. It's already old.


The debate is, is Berube a better coach for us? I can count the number of times Keefe adjusted. It was zero. Teams marvelled at our refusal to adjust. So did O Reilly.
We're likely to lose first or second round again this year, but there's really not too much that can be done until the two bad contracts end next summer.

I agree about Berube, but since he wasn't hired by Dubas, some posters can't accept that.

What is considered adjusting? Maybe you can't keep up with the game, but he certainly adjusted lines and systems multiple times.

But you are claiming Berube adjusts his coaching, so I am just asking for examples. It'd be idiotic to claim someone does without knowing how they coach, and there is no way you did that.
He changed lines and systems (and usually went right back to what didn't work), but that isn't the same as adjusting.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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What did Boston and O'Reilly say?

There are tons of articles about Keefe making adjustments if you want to become educated (not sure you do).



Your solution to solve everything is to bring in a player who is on the verge of retiring, hasn't played in a year, and was getting worse year after year.

How do you come up with so many bad ideas?
Im not doing the research for you, since you are clearly lazy and unwilling to learn.
 

The Shrike

Registered User
Jul 13, 2008
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Toronto
What is considered adjusting? Maybe you can't keep up with the game, but he certainly adjusted lines and systems multiple times.

But you are claiming Berube adjusts his coaching, so I am just asking for examples. It'd be idiotic to claim someone does without knowing how they coach, and there is no way you did that.
The best example is how he took a highly skilled offensive regular season squad and made them an obsessively defensive squad in the playoffs, thereby nullifying their natural advantage. That was an adjustment....the wrong one.
 

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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Im not doing the research for you, since you are clearly lazy and unwilling to learn.

I'll assume it was nothing.

The best example is how he took a highly skilled offensive regular season squad and made them an obsessively defensive squad in the playoffs, thereby nullifying their natural advantage. That was an adjustment....the wrong one.

Except for the two seasons before the last one.

He changed lines and systems (and usually went right back to what didn't work), but that isn't the same as adjusting.

I'll assume the changes didn't work... are adjustments only considered adjustments when they work?
 

Nineteen67

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Big change meaning top four?

He's signed the two best for slight overpayments, and the other two he can't do anything with until next summer.


I'd love to see Shanahan gone. Tre hasn't done anything particularly bad yet.
Nothing devastating yet, but he’s signed some bad contracts with bad term. If Nylander floats through the rest of his contract…..it could be very bad.
 

jaric1862

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Jan 14, 2014
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The only glaring hole up front is a legit middle-six center, who can PK. If they can get one of Gourde, Bjugstad, or Giroux at the deadline, I really think the forward group can matches up relatively well with anyone in the league.
 

Evilhomer

Registered User
Oct 10, 2019
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It’s a nice pipe dream but I don’t see it

If they didn’t blow it up after this year, it’s not happening

With Matthews and nylander out with injuries we needed Marner and Tavares to step up, they didn’t. They failed spectacularly and we still kept them

We needed rielly to provide, he didn’t and he’s still here

We lost to a team that had 2 forwards who’d crack our top 6

I bet Marner plays better next year and the heat dies off him and gets thrown at one of nylander and Matthews and we repeat this
They aren't ever blowing it up. Whether fans like it or not, Marner will be resigned. They are going to ride this group until they win or they miss the playoffs. The latter is the only scenario under which I see one of these guys getting traded.
 
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notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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I'll assume the changes didn't work... are adjustments only considered adjustments when they work?
Unfortunately, as we all saw, some of the changes worked, but for some reason he went back to what wasn't working.

And again, changes are not necessarily adjustments. Yes, he made changes, but he did not adjust to what other teams did. Big difference.
 

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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Unfortunately, as we all saw, some of the changes worked, but for some reason he went back to what wasn't working.

And again, changes are not necessarily adjustments. Yes, he made changes, but he did not adjust to what other teams did. Big difference.

Screenshot 2024-07-27 at 6.34.33 PM.png


You can argue that the adjustments he made did not work... but he made adjustments...

What are you even arguing? You agree adjustments were made...

Or you're questioning the motive of his adjustments? I don't even understand what you're saying, it makes no sense.
 

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