What did the Soviets think of Gretzky?

[blood gin]

Never really heard much from their side regarding the greatness of Gretzky. But what did they think of his skill and artistry and hockey IQ? Were they effusive and in awe? Did they just sort of brush it off and not care or think too much of it? I'd be curious to see if Gretzky's greatness was downplayed or did their jaws drop like everybody elses.

To them, Gretzky just happened to be one of a whole roster of Hall of Famers they had to face. He just happened to be the best of the best. But did they think their best player was better than him?

 

[VanIslander]

Well,... Bob Gainey was considered the greatest Canadian hockey player at one point in the Soviet Union.

I suspect they would have loved his passing since it was a key skill to the Soviet style.

But even though I've been a ravenous hockey fan since the 1970's, I can't recall many impressions of Gretzky by the Soviets. I suspect the question wasn't one reporters asked much.

Makarov was considered "the Soviet Gretzky" but I can't recall the source of that reputation (was it said within or without the Soviet Union).

 

[McGuillicuddy]

The late Igor Dmitriev:

"Gretzky is like an invisible man. He appears out of nowhere, passes to nowhere, and a goal is scored."

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’m pretty sure i remember a famous quote where a member of the green unit said that gretzky would be just ok in the soviet league because he was skinny, not very strong, and not especially fast.

which i always thought was weird because wtf was larionov then?

 

[The Panther]

Or what if Gretzky's grandfather Tony had never emigrated from Ukraine?

Wayne could have been #99, Igor Hretskyy, of Team Red Army.

 

[alko]

Or what if Gretzky's grandfather Tony had never emigrated from Ukraine?

Wayne could have been #99, Igor Hretskyy, of Team Red Army.

Yeah, but then we would never see Wayne Gretzky.

But there is a scientific theorem, that we live in multiverse. That means, this reality Without Wayne Gretzky coexist with our reality.

 

[VMBM]

Well,... Bob Gainey was considered the greatest Canadian hockey player at one point in the Soviet Union.

That might have been blown out of proportion, isn't it based on one quote by some Russian or something? However, Bob Gainey was arguably the best player on the ice in the 1979 game between the Habs and CSKA, so around that time he might have been even widely revered in the Soviet Union, I don't know.

As for Gretzky...

When Anatoli Tarasov selected his own All-Star team at the 1982 World Championship (he was there as an observer, not a coach, of course), he had Gretzky as his All-Star centre, even though all of his other selections were Russians (=Tretiak, Fetisov, Kasatonov, Krutov, Makarov). Apparently he had already called Gretzky the "smartest player I've ever seen" at the 1981 Canada Cup:

"To say I'm impressed wouldn't be telling the truth." Tarasov said Friday night after Canada blitzed the U.S. 4--I in the semifinals. "Your goalie (Mike Liut) isn't so great. And the defensemen aren't the fastest, either." Only Gretzky impressed Tarasov. "Very smart." Tarasov said, pointing to his head. “Very smart. Smartest player I’ve ever seen.” Source: Кубок Канады 1981. СССР - Канада 8:1.

When reading Viktor Tikhonov's book, it's kind of hard to detect his actual thoughts on Gretzky; sometimes he is - well, sort of - praising him, and sometimes he is kind of dismissive (like when he writes about the 1985 game between the Oilers and CSKA).

As for the Russian players, I don't know how they could have been anything else but very impressed by Gretzky, especially after the 1987 Canada Cup.

 

[Theokritos]

As for the Russian players, I don't know how they could have been anything else but very impressed by Gretzky, especially after the 1987 Canada Cup.

I think prior to the tournament or perhaps after the round-robin game a Soviet player was quoted as saying that Gretzky wasn't that special and they had several players "like him" in the USSR. He thought Mario Lemieux was much more impressive. But then later during the tournament you have the famous Igor Dmitriev quote cited above by McGuillicuddy.

That might have been blown out of proportion, isn't it based on one quote by some Russian or something? However, Bob Gainey was arguably the best player on the ice in the 1979 game between the Habs and CSKA, so around that time he might have been even widely revered in the Soviet Union, I don't know.

It was Tikhonov who said it. The context:

The quote was actually made in 1979 when Tikhonov came over from Russia to observe the Stanley Cup Final between Montreal and the Rangers. That was the year Bob Gainey won the Conn Smythe and was probably the best series he ever played. He shut down the Rangers top line and chipped in quite a bit offensively; so he wasn't just a defensive specialist. He was the best player in that series, so Tikhonov calling him the best after seeing it wouldn't seem that unusual.

 

[VMBM]

I think prior to the tournament or perhaps after the round-robin game a Soviet player was quoted as saying that Gretzky wasn't that special and they had several players "like him" in the USSR. He thought Mario Lemieux was much more impressive. But then later during the tournament you have the famous Igor Dmitriev quote cited above by McGuillicuddy.

Okay, and I remember seeing a few online quotes from (presumably) some Russian hockey fans who said that they preferred players like aforementioned Lemieux, or even Gilbert Perreault (i.e. flashier/better 1-on-1) to Gretzky. But whether this was a widely shared opinion among the Russians, I couldn't say. However, if (and when) a Kharlamov-esque player was the sort of ideal in the Soviet Union, then it would be somewhat understandable that Gretzky wasn't always the most praised Canadian player. Maybe Gretzky's "best player in the world" tag would also cause a slight backlash.
Then again, Gretzky was hardly 'un-Russian' either; he was neither big nor physical, he could skate (fast), he could pass(!) and make beautiful plays, he was not bad 1-on-1, his hockey IQ was unmatched... what's there not to like?

It was Tikhonov who said it. The context:

Right. That's how I remembered it but couldn't be sure. So, if Tikhonov equates "the Soviets", then I guess "they" thought that Gainey was the man... at least among the Habs & the Rangers, that is.

 

[Sentinel]

Well,... Bob Gainey was considered the greatest Canadian hockey player at one point in the Soviet Union.

I suspect they would have loved his passing since it was a key skill to the Soviet style.

But even though I've been a ravenous hockey fan since the 1970's, I can't recall many impressions of Gretzky by the Soviets. I suspect the question wasn't one reporters asked much.

Makarov was considered "the Soviet Gretzky" but I can't recall the source of that reputation (was it said within or without the Soviet Union).

Makarov was not, to my knowledge, ever considered "Soviet Gretzky." Larionov was, in fact, called just that.

 

[VanIslander]

Sorry Sentinel, but he was. As I said, Makarov was called the Soviet Gretzky.

The GM of the Calgary Flames Cliff Fletcher said he was when Fletcher drafted him 231st overall.

There are several sources of information. Google it.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Makarov was not, to my knowledge, ever considered "Soviet Gretzky." Larionov was, in fact, called just that.

Yeah, the comparisons were there. Larionov "the Professor" had a hockey IQ very similar to Gretzky's, incredibly cerebral.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Yeah, the comparisons were there. Larionov "the Professor" had a hockey IQ very similar to Gretzky's, incredibly cerebral.

There was a recent short documentary about CSKA and I think its Sergei Fedorov who said Larionov was called the Professor simply because he wore glasses when not on the ice, and that it was the Western media who mistook the nickname to mean that it was because Larionov was such a s smart player.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Never really heard much from their side regarding the greatness of Gretzky. But what did they think of his skill and artistry and hockey IQ? Were they effusive and in awe? Did they just sort of brush it off and not care or think too much of it? I'd be curious to see if Gretzky's greatness was downplayed or did their jaws drop like everybody elses.

To them, Gretzky just happened to be one of a whole roster of Hall of Famers they had to face. He just happened to be the best of the best. But did they think their best player was better than him?

In the mid-90s I spent just over 6 months working in Ukraine (a story for a different board/forum).

Anyway, on the day of my departure back to Canada two young men collected my luggage and drove me from Sumy to the airport in Kiev ... both spoke English at, let’s say a 5 on a 1-10 scale, while my Ukrainian and Russian checked in at about a 1 out of 10. Thankfully, we were joined by a young lady possessing near fluency in multiple languages.

Conversation (such as it was) turned to sports ... hockey in particular. Trust me, every second word out of their mouths was either “Gretzky” or “Lemieux.” I tried to defend various Russian/Soviet stars but they’d have none of it. Pure awe at Gretzky in particular, couldn’t fathom how such a player could even exist. The young lady interpreting wasn’t really much of a sports fan but at one point she more or less told me to shut up because Gretzky = God and the discussion is over.

So my firsthand experience is that Gretzky was viewed as an absolute cut above everyone else.

 

[Sentinel]

In the mid-90s I spent just over 6 months working in Ukraine (a story for a different board/forum).

Anyway, on the day of my departure back to Canada two young men collected my luggage and drove me from Sumy to the airport in Kiev ... both spoke English at, let’s say a 5 on a 1-10 scale, while my Ukrainian and Russian checked in at about a 1 out of 10. Thankfully, we were joined by a young lady possessing near fluency in multiple languages.

Conversation (such as it was) turned to sports ... hockey in particular. Trust me, every second word out of their mouths was either “Gretzky” or “Lemieux.” I tried to defend various Russian/Soviet stars but they’d have none of it. Pure awe at Gretzky in particular, couldn’t fathom how such a player could even exist. The young lady interpreting wasn’t really much of a sports fan but at one point she more or less told me to shut up because Gretzky = God and the discussion is over.

So my firsthand experience is that Gretzky was viewed as an absolute cut above everyone else.

TBH, Gretzky is of Ukrainian descent and post-Soviet Ukrainians want to have nothing to do with the Soviet legacy.

 

[BadgerBruce]

TBH, Gretzky is of Ukrainian descent and post-Soviet Ukrainians want to have nothing to do with the Soviet legacy.

Agreed, though in the relatively early post-Communist years when I was there the feelings on the “Soviet legacy” subject were a bit more mixed, largely because of the “uncertain” political and economic future. But in the main, your observation is correct.

 

[VMBM]

There was a recent short documentary about CSKA and I think its Sergei Fedorov who said Larionov was called the Professor simply because he wore glasses when not on the ice, and that it was the Western media who mistook the nickname to mean that it was because Larionov was such a s smart player.

Whatever the case, I don't see any great resemblence between Gretzky and Larionov. Simply put, the other was an offensive dynamo and catalyst, the other was not.

BTW, Helmuts Balderis wore glasses too, but apparently he was just called "four eyes" by his linemates

 

[cupcrazyman]

Never really heard much from their side regarding the greatness of Gretzky. But what did they think of his skill and artistry and hockey IQ? Were they effusive and in awe? Did they just sort of brush it off and not care or think too much of it? I'd be curious to see if Gretzky's greatness was downplayed or did their jaws drop like everybody elses.

To them, Gretzky just happened to be one of a whole roster of Hall of Famers they had to face. He just happened to be the best of the best. But did they think their best player was better than him?

Gretzky Good !

 

[Pasha71]

Actually, I believe Gretzky is of Belarusian descent. So does Wikipedia. His father's family was from Hrodna, which is one of the biggest cities in Belarus.

Now, I lived in the USSR until 1990, and I remember a lot of praise for Gretzky in Soviet hockey publications, probably since 1980 or so.

 

[CHGoalie27]

That might have been blown out of proportion, isn't it based on one quote by some Russian or something? However, Bob Gainey was arguably the best player on the ice in the 1979 game between the Habs and CSKA, so around that time he might have been even widely revered in the Soviet Union, I don't know.

As for Gretzky...

When Anatoli Tarasov selected his own All-Star team at the 1982 World Championship (he was there as an observer, not a coach, of course), he had Gretzky as his All-Star centre, even though all of his other selections were Russians (=Tretiak, Fetisov, Kasatonov, Krutov, Makarov). Apparently he had already called Gretzky the "smartest player I've ever seen" at the 1981 Canada Cup:


When reading Viktor Tikhonov's book, it's kind of hard to detect his actual thoughts on Gretzky; sometimes he is - well, sort of - praising him, and sometimes he is kind of dismissive (like when he writes about the 1985 game between the Oilers and CSKA).

As for the Russian players, I don't know how they could have been anything else but very impressed by Gretzky, especially after the 1987 Canada Cup.

I swear on my life, my first reaction upon seeing OPs question, 'No way Anatoli Tarasov didn't love Wayne Gretzky's mind for this game.'

 

[Sentinel]

A random question for the stats keepers:

How many times did Gretzky's play Soviet teams (national and clubs) and what were the results?
How many times did Makarov's teams play North American teams (national and clubs) and what were the results?

 

[Theokritos]

A random question for the stats keepers:

How many times did Gretzky's play Soviet teams (national and clubs) and what were the results?

Senior hockey only:

1978/12/15: Edmonton Oilers (WHA) – USSR B 5-3
1978/12/29: Edmonton Oilers – Dinamo Moscow 1-4
1979/01/02: WHA All-Stars – Dinamo Moscow 4-2
1979/01/04: WHA All-Stars – Dinamo Moscow 4-2
1979/01/05: WHA All-Stars – Dinamo Moscow 4-3
1980/01/04: Edmonton Oilers (NHL) – Dinamo Moscow 1-4
1981/08/29: Canada – USSR 3-2 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1981/09/09: Canada – USSR 7-3 / Canada Cup round-robin
1981/09/13: Canada – USSR 1-8 / Canada Cup Final
1982/04/24: Canada – USSR 3-4 / World Championship first stage
1982/04/25: Canada – USSR 4-6 / World Championship second stage
1982/12/28: Edmonton Oilers – USSR 4-3
1984/08/29: Canada – USSR 4-5 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1984/09/10: Canada – USSR 3-6 / Canada Cup round-robin
1984/09/13: Canada – USSR 3-2 OT / Canada Cup SF
1985/12/27: Edmonton Oilers – CSKA Moscow 3-6
1987/02/11: NHL All-Stars – USSR 4-3
1987/02/13: NHL All-Stars – USSR 3-5
1987/08/22: Canada – USSR 4-9 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1987/09/06: Canada – USSR 3-3 / Canada Cup round-robin
1987/09/11: Canada – USSR 6-5 OT / Canada Cup Final
1987/09/13: Canada – USSR 5-6 2nd OT / Canada Cup Final
1987/09/15: Canada – USSR 6-5
1988/12/31: Los Angeles Kings – Dinamo Riga 3-5
1989/12/04: Los Angeles Kings – Khimik Voskresensk 3-6
1990/12/03: Los Angeles Kings – Khimik Voskresensk 5-1
1991/08/25: Canada – USSR 4-2 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1991/08/27: Canada – USSR 3-4 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1991/09/09: Canada – USSR 3-3 / Canada Cup round-robin

 

[Albatros]

Actually, I believe Gretzky is of Belarusian descent. So does Wikipedia. His father's family was from Hrodna, which is one of the biggest cities in Belarus.

Grodno has been Belarusian only since WWII though, Gretzky's ancestors will have emigrated much before.

 

[Theokritos]

How many times did Makarov's teams play North American teams (national and clubs) and what were the results?

Senior hockey only and on the national team level I only looked at games against Team Canada.

1978/05/08: USSR – Canada 4-2 / World Championship first stage
1978/05/10: USSR – Canada 5-1 / World Championship second stage
1979/02/08: USSR – NHL All-Stars 2-4
1979/02/10: USSR – NHL All-Stars 5-4
1979/02/11: USSR – NHL All-Stars 6-0
1979/04/19: USSR – Canada 5-2 / World Championship
1979/04/25: USSR – Canada 9-2 / World Championship
1979/12/27: CSKA – New York Rangers 5-2
1979/12/29: CSKA – New York Islanders 3-2
1979/12/31: CSKA – Montreal Canadiens 2-4
1980/01/03: CSKA – Buffalo Sabres 1-6
1980/01/06: CSKA – Quebec Nordiques 6-4
1981/04/15: USSR – Canada 8-2 / World Championship
1981/04/22: USSR – Canada 4-4 / World Championship
1981/08/29: USSR – Canada 2-3 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1981/09/09: USSR – Canada 3-7 / Canada Cup round-robin
1981/09/13: USSR – Canada 8-1 / Canada Cup Final
1982/04/24: USSR – Canada 4-3 / World Championship first stage
1982/04/25: USSR – Canada 6-4 / World Championship second stage
1983/04/19: USSR – Canada 8-2 / World Championship first stage
1983/05/02: USSR – Canada 8-2 / World Championship second stage
1984/08/29: USSR – Canada 5-4 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1984/09/10: USSR – Canada 6-3 / Canada Cup round-robin
1984/09/13: USSR – Canada 2-3 / Canada Cup SF
1985/04/24: USSR – Canada 9-1 / World Championship first stage
1985/05/01: USSR – Canada 1-3 / World Championship second stage
1985/12/26: CSKA – Los Angeles Kings 5-2
1985/12/27: CSKA – Edmonton Oilers 6-3
1985/12/29: CSKA – Quebec Nordiques 1-5
1985/12/31: CSKA – Montreal Canadiens 6-1
1986/01/02: CSKA – Saint Louis Blues 4-2
1986/01/04: CSKA – Minnesota North Stars 4-3
1986/04/18: USSR – Canada 4-0 / World Championship first stage
1986/04/24: USSR – Canada 7-4 / World Championship second stage
1987/02/11: USSR – NHL All-Stars 3-4
1987/02/13: USSR – NHL All-Stars 5-3
1987/04/24: USSR – Canada 3-2 / World Championship first stage
1987/04/29: USSR – Canada 0-0 / World Championship second stage
1987/08/22: USSR – Canada 9-4 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1987/08/25: USSR – Canada 2-5 / Canada Cup pre-tournament exhibition
1987/09/06: USSR – Canada 3-3 / Canada Cup round-robin
1987/09/11: USSR – Canada 6-5 OT / Canada Cup Final
1987/09/13: USSR – Canada 5-6 2nd OT / Canada Cup Final
1987/09/15: USSR – Canada 5-6 / Canada Cup Final
1988/12/26: CSKA – Quebec Nordiques 5-5
1988/12/29: CSKA – New York Islanders 4-3
1988/12/31: CSKA – Boston Bruins 5-4
1989/01/02: CSKA – New Jersey Devils 5-0
1989/01/04: CSKA – Pittsburgh Penguins 2-4
1989/01/07: CSKA – Hartford Whalers 6-3
1989/01/09: CSKA – Buffalo Sabres 5-6
1989/04/22: USSR – Canada 4-3 / World Championship
1989/04/29: USSR – Canada 5-3 / World Championship
1990/04/26: USSR – Canada 3-3 / World Championship
1990/04/30: USSR – Canada 7-1 / World Championship
1991/04/25: USSR – Canada 5-3 / World Championship
1991/05/02: USSR – Canada 3-3 / World Championship

Makarov missed the 1982-83 Super Series.

 

[Gambitman]

In Tretiek’s book there is a little section where he asked a group of questions. He is asked who is better Makarov or Gretzky and he replies “Makarov of course.” Whether that was his true belief or Soviet propaganda is hard to say.