Woah woah woah, you analyze the Ottawa side of the return for what you perceive their future outlook to be but you evaluate Karlsson based on what he was and not what he is currently or what he's expected to be through his current contract? Seems unfair.
News Article: What did the Senators get out of trading EK65
- Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
- Start date
Adele Dazeem
Registered User
It's unfair to say that Ottawa won this trade when the best pieces of the package have yet to have an impact in the NHL.
It looks fine on paper but let's wait and see how Stutzle, Norris and company do before any judgements.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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As livid as I was when it happened, hard to say it turned out to be a home run of a trade.
Yeah the 1st rounder being 3rd overall was a fluke but, as much as we laughed about the "six assets", all six of them have proven to be at the very least "good" and Norris and Stutzle both have the potential to be great.
Yeah the 1st rounder being 3rd overall was a fluke but, as much as we laughed about the "six assets", all six of them have proven to be at the very least "good" and Norris and Stutzle both have the potential to be great.
That's fair to say. But you can't then also compare against a player's best years. Judge that package against what Karlsson has done since the trade and will continue to do throughout his contract which also requires a similar wait and see approach.
DJB
Registered User
Knowing what we know now, I'd have given Karlsson up for free so that it meant we didn't sign him to that albatross of a contract.
It's one of the worst in the league.
It's one of the worst in the league.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
I still hope we get to see two more years of EK prime. But, paying for the other 9 years is going to hurt the sharks down the line.
Adele Dazeem
Registered User
I'd wager Karlsson reinstates himself as the best D in the league next season.
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
You clearly don't know enough about Norris.. Top 6 is a better projection particularly when compared to Balcers, who I agree has middle 6 potential.
But we are not talking about the next 5 years here, why is it so hard for you to admit that trading Karlsson was the right thing to do and that Dorion won that trade. Thats why Dorion is the GM and you're not.
Agent Zuuuub
Registered User
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There was major luck/fluke allowed but this trade went about as well as it could have.
Stutzle is the real deal and going to be a superstar, it's what you pray for when you end up trading yours. I agree the other pieces aren't really that important compared to Stutzle/ Karlsson.
Best case scenario would have obviously been to have players like Karlsson/ Stone to guide this new crop into being pros and dominant. But this is the Senators we're taking about.
No a chance is done, he will never be as good as he was with us. He can't skate anymore and he will never be worth that 11,5M contract Im so happy we dont have that contract. The only player I miss is Mark Stone I wish we could of kept him.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I imagine I wasn't the only person following hockey to foresee a Sharks decline as a possibility so I don't really agree that it was a fluke or pure luck.
Xspyrit, Jul 2, 2019
"The Sharks 1st could be good too, with Pavelski, Nyquist and Braun gone, Thornton probably too, Vlasic, Burns and Couture getting a bit older, Karlsson still recovering from injuries, Jones on the verge of falling apart... Maybe not super high but they could miss the playoffs"
Xspyrit, Oct 31, 2019
"losing Pavelski and many key players aging. I mean, Thornton is 40 (and Marleau is back but 40 y/o too). Vlasic is 32 and has lost a step. Burns and EK are still 2 of the best offensive D-men in the league but can't count on them to shutdown the opponent, and EK is EK but let's be honest, his injuries have affected him. That team is just not very good defensively.
I was talking about that last year already after the EK trade and how that team decline was imminent."
Sens were bad with Karlsson in 2017-18 so having him didn't mean that the Sharks couldn't be bad and they were in his 2nd season with them.
The Sens reached the ECF (and almost the SCF) in 2017, but totally sucked the following year whe everything fell appart, so if Dorion was criticized heavily for giving up a "lottery pick" in the Duchene trade, he needs to be praised the same way for getting one in the Karlsson trade. It's about staying consistent with criticism
So far I have seen very little praise in comparison to the bashing he got for giving up the 4th OA in 2019 (really not as valuable as 3rd OA in 2020 IMO)
Chris Tierney and Vladimir Namestnikov are middle-6 forwards. I'd be disappointed if Norris can't be better than that. I think the hockey world expects a bit more than that for Norris, particularly with the AHL rookie season he just had. Balcers ending up as a Namestnikov, I could totally see this and that's a valuable player, particularly before he gets more expensive.
Victor Hedman, Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar, Rasmus Dahlin, John Carlson, Roman Josi, Shea Theodore, Seth Jones, Thomas Chabot, Quinn Hughes. Competition is very heavy going forward
Xspyrit, Jul 2, 2019
"The Sharks 1st could be good too, with Pavelski, Nyquist and Braun gone, Thornton probably too, Vlasic, Burns and Couture getting a bit older, Karlsson still recovering from injuries, Jones on the verge of falling apart... Maybe not super high but they could miss the playoffs"
Xspyrit, Oct 31, 2019
"losing Pavelski and many key players aging. I mean, Thornton is 40 (and Marleau is back but 40 y/o too). Vlasic is 32 and has lost a step. Burns and EK are still 2 of the best offensive D-men in the league but can't count on them to shutdown the opponent, and EK is EK but let's be honest, his injuries have affected him. That team is just not very good defensively.
I was talking about that last year already after the EK trade and how that team decline was imminent."
Sens were bad with Karlsson in 2017-18 so having him didn't mean that the Sharks couldn't be bad and they were in his 2nd season with them.
The Sens reached the ECF (and almost the SCF) in 2017, but totally sucked the following year whe everything fell appart, so if Dorion was criticized heavily for giving up a "lottery pick" in the Duchene trade, he needs to be praised the same way for getting one in the Karlsson trade. It's about staying consistent with criticism
So far I have seen very little praise in comparison to the bashing he got for giving up the 4th OA in 2019 (really not as valuable as 3rd OA in 2020 IMO)
Chris Tierney and Vladimir Namestnikov are middle-6 forwards. I'd be disappointed if Norris can't be better than that. I think the hockey world expects a bit more than that for Norris, particularly with the AHL rookie season he just had. Balcers ending up as a Namestnikov, I could totally see this and that's a valuable player, particularly before he gets more expensive.
Victor Hedman, Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar, Rasmus Dahlin, John Carlson, Roman Josi, Shea Theodore, Seth Jones, Thomas Chabot, Quinn Hughes. Competition is very heavy going forward
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DJB
Registered User
After the Cooke incident Karlsson has been a shell of himself for the most part. The legs are gone and so has his confidence.
I won't be surprised at this. Even if he isn't at 100%, 70-80% Karlsson still skates better then most of the league and his hockey IQ has always been his greatest strength. His positioning and stick work will make him a a #1 guy till the end of his contract imo
BatherSeason
Registered User
Did you forget the Cup run?
SpezDispenser
Registered User
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AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
While that incident seemed to really impact him, his performance on the cup run was legendary.
It was that cup run and the surgery that followed that seems to be the death knell more so than the Cooke incident.
I hope he gets it back, but I don't think he will, and it appears we squeezed the last of the juice. You never know though, I thought Crosby was done for during the whole neck/concussion debacle.
Such a shame for arguably the best offensive d man of all time to have his career impacted so heavily by injuries.
- Feb 5, 2010
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I think they have. You rarely see Ottawa mentioned in rumours these days.
DJB
Registered User
If Norris becomes faster version of Chris Kelly and Stutzle ends up being a Dzingle like player, then we traded a franchise Defenseman for sh*** and giggles.
Stutzle and Norris needs to become 1C and 2C, respectively, or 1 of them have to become an elite level offensive player.
Stutzle and Norris needs to become 1C and 2C, respectively, or 1 of them have to become an elite level offensive player.
Sweatred
Erase me
- Jan 28, 2019
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Na ... we won the trade the second we decided to trade him. There was no way we were waking away ... so it was trade for something or sign. It was a great trade at the time and even better now.
Letting him go for nothing would have been the second best decision.
The worst idea would have been signing him. These players have inflated visions of their value .. ask Julie, ask MD, and EK. I wonder how long until we see a EK buyout ?
That was his best hockey of his career. Glad he did it with the Sens. I doubt he can be a top 10 NHL D consistently but if the Sharks can get into the playoffs in the next few years I wouldn’t put it past EK to be able to put a great couple months together. It’s a shame it ended here in such acrimony, but I loved watching him as a Sen and I’m glad he didn’t re-sign here as well. When Melnyk is finally out of the way Alfie can raise EKs #65 into the rafters where it belongs.
