What did Ovechkin and Malkin do?

[IkeaMonkey*]

With his back to him? At the point of contact from Patty's stick to the Russians face, they were eye to eye.

 

[QuickDynamite]

1) Read my posts, not once have I approved showboating/taunting. On the contrary, I find it pretty stupid behaviour.

2) You seem like a true expert in making stupid generalizations. Based on your 'logic' I could as easily say that all canadian hockey players are goons, because of what the likes of Bertuzzi and Bobby Clarke have done. Would that be fair?

3) I like physical hockey too, with clean hitting, but without headhunting, without intent to injure (injure here meaning things like broken vertebrae etc.).

It's people like you that give hockey a bad name by approving and embracing unnecessary violence (evident from some of your earlier posts in the thread). Sometimes I am ashamed to be a hockey fan.

You don't condone it. Yet you are defending Ovechkin and Malkin?

Did you hear me embrace unnecessary violence or intent to injure? If Ovechkin starting taunting the bench, the fans and hiding on the bench in the NHL, things would get ugly very fast. He is trying to anger the players and fans. Garbage like that is unsportsmanlike and is just going to end up with people getting hurt. Im suprised the US didn't do anything to him, im sure they would have if he wasn't hiding on the bench.

I thought Ovechkin was going to be different than most Russian players. But after that display, I realize he's just another bum.

Also, Why are you bringing up things like Bertuzzi and broken vertabrea? Would you be saying that to me if I wasn't from BC? I feel like I can't even talk to other hockey fans without people playing the Bertuzzi card on me.

 

[RorschachWJK]

You don't condone it. Yet you are defending Ovechkin and Malkin?

Did you hear me embrace unnecessary violence or intent to injure? If Ovechkin starting taunting the bench, the fans and hiding on the bench in the NHL, things would get ugly very fast. He is trying to anger the players and fans. Garbage like that is unsportsmanlike and is just going to end up with people getting hurt. Im suprised the US didn't do anything to him, im sure they would have if he wasn't hiding on the bench.

I thought Ovechkin was going to be different than most Russian players. But after that display, I realize he's just another bum.

Also, Why are you bringing up things like Bertuzzi and broken vertabrea? Would you be saying that to me if I wasn't from BC? I feel like I can't even talk to other hockey fans without people playing the Bertuzzi card on me.

Ok. I'll go through these paragraph by paragraph.

I am not defending anybody, just stating that acts like their's, while being pretty stupid, definitely don't merit headhunting/unnecessary violence.

The tone of some of your earlier posts implied that you approve retaliation/headhunting in certain cases. To me that's unnecessary violence and intent to injure. However, if you deny approving actions like that, I'm totally fine with this and that's it: end of discussion.

The Ovechkin comment I'm not gonna even touch.

The obvious recent example about headhunting/retaliation happens to be the Bertuzzi incident, that's why. It also nicely illustrates what can happen in such a scenario. I have nothing against BC.

 

[MOGiLNY]

shouldn't this thread be closed? or do we only close threads that say Ovechkin is better than Crosby?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

If I am ridiculous answer this.

Name all of the power forwards in the NHL that are Euro or Russian. Now then compare them to how many the US and Canada have produced. the list isnt even close. Also name all the Europe enforcers other than Oliwa in the NHL. Again the list isnt even close.

Ever watched a soccer game from Europe? If you have then you have seen a guy get another player to draw a yellow card, get carried off on a stretcher and jump up on the side lines and run around, obviously not hurt. It is found as acceptable behavior in Europe to gain a man advantage. Not only is this the case in soccer but the Russians made it very clear they play the same way. When AO got hit up high he acted like Mike Tyson punched him in the 12th.

Im not a sore loser either. I accepted the loss and have stated that the Russians played a great game.

Power forwards and tough guys are totally irrelevant in this discussion.

This is about you saying that the European style is to dive. This isn't about soccer games, this is about hockey. I don't recall Ovechkin overexaggerating a hit, but maybe I missed it. Like I said, I remember one dive in this game from the Russian team.

I remember two distinct cheap shots from the Americans.

I want to ask you straight up. Do you believe that it is a European style of hockey to dive?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

The obvious recent example about headhunting/retaliation happens to be the Bertuzzi incident, that's why. It also nicely illustrates what can happen in such a scenario. I have nothing against BC.

Bingo. I don't care where anybody is from. If you are hinting or hoping or saying that it's justified to have cheap physical attacks on players, regardless of what they do to provoke it, then you are basically asking for more situations like the Bertuzzi or Perezhogin incidents.

If a player is arrogant, fine, they are a tool. If they spit on you, fine, they are a moron. But nothing they do to you gives you the right to actually try to injure them. There's no justification there, simply put. Anyone who thinks there is is just talking out of anger, ignorance or spite.

 

[Matt13]

Power forwards and tough guys are totally irrelevant in this discussion.

This is about you saying that the European style is to dive. This isn't about soccer games, this is about hockey. I don't recall Ovechkin overexaggerating a hit, but maybe I missed it. Like I said, I remember one dive in this game from the Russian team.

Here is my original quote that started this.

Americans and Canadians play hardnosed hockey

Russians and Euros play a finesse game and find diving to be acceptable to draw a penalty.

There it is in English.

You made your little Don Cherry comment and said my statement was ridiculous so power forwards and tough guys are VERY relevent because I stated that the countrys play two different styles. One is tough nosed hockey and the other is more of a finesse game. i used the soccer reference to show that it just isnt in hockey that this is done.

Also I never said it was there style to do it, did I but I did say they find it acceptable.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Also I never said it was there style to do it, did I but I did say they find it acceptable.

Some do, some don't. I personally detest it like the plague.

 

[kenabnrmal]

As someone who was at the game, watched the replay at home, and saw every highlight 40 times...

a) Russia played an alright game. Not a great game, but enough to win. Ovechkin didn't impress me all that much, but Malkin did.

b) Outside of the first period, US played like crap and didn't deserve to win.

c) The Russian taunting and showboating, regardless of the reason, was classless and while its not unexpected from a bunch of kids (regardless of the nationality), it still is regrettable.

d) Instead of ignoring them or challenging them with their fists, the US turned to sticking and cheapshots to vent their frustration. Might have been more classless than the original taunting.

So, it was just an ugly game all around. Niether side has much room to complain about the other.

 

[Matt13]

I personally detest it like the plague.

You're in Toronto though.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Here is my original quote that started this.

Americans and Canadians play hardnosed hockey

Russians and Euros play a finesse game and find diving to be acceptable to draw a penalty.

There it is in English.

You made your little Don Cherry comment and said my statement was ridiculous so power forwards and tough guys are VERY relevent because I stated that the countrys play two different styles. One is tough nosed hockey and the other is more of a finesse game. i used the soccer reference to show that it just isnt in hockey that this is done.

Also I never said it was there style to do it, did I but I did say they find it acceptable.

No, power forwards and tough guys are completely unrelated to what I asked you. I never said that European players play that way. They generally play a much more finesse game, I totally agree.

Soccer is moot, unless you are trying to argue that Europeans in general think it's ok to dive, which is ridiculous to say the least.

I just didn't see all the diving everyone seems to talk about from the European players in the NHL, and specifically in this game from the Russians.

Diving is a problem in the NHL, but it isn't as though only European players dive. Players dive because they can get away with it, not because of what country they are from.



... and one addition I'd like to make to my other post about leading to Bertuzzi/Perezhogin situations. When stuff like overexcessive celebration and taunting happens, refs need to take action against it with penalties. Just because players responding to situations like taunting or general cheap play with extreme violence is unjustified and wrong doesn't mean that it won't happen.

You can't let players get away with provoking their opponent...

But, in this USA game with have the same situation basically reversed, although instead of responding to some chippy plays and a few cheap shots with violence, the Russians ended up responding to it with arrogant celebrating, which is why I didn't take issue with the whole thing. It's childish, but much better than the alternative.

A lot of it comes back to the refs. They need to establish control in games, control over instruction-type things that are prevelant in the NHL and happened in this game, and also control over the players behavior.

They didn't really have it in this game, although it wasn't that bad, but thankfully nobody ended up injured.

 

[Matt13]

No, power forwards and tough guys are completely unrelated to what I asked you. I never said that European players play that way. They generally play a much more finesse game, I totally agree.

Ok I cant back up the part of my quote with a fact that North Americans play Hardnosed hockey with the power forwards and enforcer part but we can agree on the finesse......whatever man.

Soccer is moot, unless you are trying to argue that Europeans in general think it's ok to dive, which is ridiculous to say the least.

why is it ridiculous?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Ok I cant back up the part of my quote with a fact that North Americans play Hardnosed hockey with the power forwards and enforcer part but we can agree on the finesse......whatever man.

I'm not talking about the style in which players play, I was asking you if you thought European players dive as part of their game, which clearly you do. I wasn't even talking about power forwards or tough guys.

I just don't see how what kind of players North Americans generally are relates to European players diving. Finesse doesn't relate with diving. Diving is diving.

why is it ridiculous?

Because it's on par with any generalization that you can name. Just because one player does something, doesn't mean similar players will do the same thing. Because one black guy robs a bank, doesn't mean that all black guys will rob a bank. Because one white guy kills a man, doesn't mean that all white guys will kill a man. I could go on and on.

You don't have any factual basis for saying that Europeans in general think it's ok to dive and take dives, that's why the statement is ridiculous. One European player may dive, but that doesn't mean his teammate will too.

Like I said, a player dives because they can get away with it and draw a penalty. There are no labels to be put on a vast general people, who are each a unique player.

Players dive because they get away with it and because they want to draw a penalty, not because they were born in Sweden or Russia. For a rational person, that is very easy to see.

 

[RorschachWJK]

You're in Toronto though.

Yep, but born and bred in Finland.
Although that may be unimportant, because the Finns tend to play a more physical game (hockey, that is) than some other Europeans. It's our style.

 

[junglebeast]

You people have got to be kidding me. I love watching Russian players play the game because they LOVE to win. They show emotion and don't hide it in fear of ridicule. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what the Russians did in that USA game. If the Americans don't like it they should have won the game.

If I score on you, I deserve the chance to rub it in. Don't like it? Hit me. Score on me. Beat me.

That's sports people. It's a competitive game and taunting a team is showing them you own them. The Russians dominated the Americans and are playing in the Gold medal game. They are the better team and they KNOW it. I love that they know it and I'm happy they showed it. Sure it's not all that sportsmanlike but who cares. Really?

I would have no problem with any team taunting my Canadians if they were to beat us. Know why? Because they are the better team. If I want my revenge I will show my support next year and hope my team can bring home the win and my right to brag and taunt.

Enough said.

 

[Oil_slick9416*]

You people have got to be kidding me. I love watching Russian players play the game because they LOVE to win. They show emotion and don't hide it in fear of ridicule. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what the Russians did in that USA game. If the Americans don't like it they should have won the game.

If I score on you, I deserve the chance to rub it in. Don't like it? Hit me. Score on me. Beat me.

That's sports people. It's a competitive game and taunting a team is showing them you own them. The Russians dominated the Americans and are playing in the Gold medal game. They are the better team and they KNOW it. I love that they know it and I'm happy they showed it. Sure it's not all that sportsmanlike but who cares. Really?

I would have no problem with any team taunting my Canadians if they were to beat us. Know why? Because they are the better team. If I want my revenge I will show my support next year and hope my team can bring home the win and my right to brag and taunt.

Enough said.

you sir are a dolt

 

[Mothra]

I thought Ovechkin was going to be different than most Russian players. But after that display, I realize he's just another bum.

I'm just curious exactly what you saw him do.....point to the back of his jersey? His EN goal celebration was no different from his other from what I saw...and considering it iced the game I can understand the excitement......what makes him a bum?

 

[Mothra]

Russians and Euros play a finesse game and find diving to be acceptable to draw a penalty


Also I never said it was there style to do it, did I but I did say they find it acceptable.

the problem is you make it seem like Euros invented diving....its been around as long as I can remember....which is well before Euros played on every team

 

[Barnaby]

I want to ask you straight up. Do you believe that it is a European style of hockey to dive?

Sure, just ask Jeremy Roenick :lol

 

[David]

You people have got to be kidding me. I love watching Russian players play the game because they LOVE to win. They show emotion and don't hide it in fear of ridicule. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what the Russians did in that USA game.

...and I'm pretty sure that your a thinly disguised Russian.

Ovechkin is a disgrace to his country and to the game of hockey. He was a little brat three years ago and it's pretty clear that he's become an even bigger brat!

He could use a big helping of humble pie right about now to help him later on in life.