What could greatly improve this team?

Appleyard

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I mean, Giroux is objectively on track for a spot in the hall of fame...

at at the same age has arguably had a better individual career than Modano and Sundin. Similar production per game for era, with better Hart, Point and PPG finishes.

When all is said and done he is probably the 3rd best peak/prime forward in Flyers history after Clarke and Lindros... and the 3rd best overall Flyers resume after Clarke and Parent.
 

hatcher

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Still wish we went after Max Domi! :) My man is tearing it up in Montreal!
Another young player that would be our best young player with attitude. What really has hexy done. Provy and Konecny and hopefully Patrick but nothing much for the main roster and average drafting. Farabee,Frost.Obrien might be 50 pt players 4 to 5 years from now. Here to the future.
 

hatcher

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lol, seriously this team needs to go to a full rebuild, even if we dont land jack hughes, if there's another star out there that can change this franchise around, i'll go for it.
Certainly but its the coach man and even if we get another coach we are not winning the cup here with these older players. Blow it up.
 

magnumpi

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I mean, Giroux is objectively on track for a spot in the hall of fame...

at at the same age has arguably had a better individual career than Modano and Sundin. Similar production per game for era, with better Hart, Point and PPG finishes.

When all is said and done he is probably the 3rd best peak/prime forward in Flyers history after Clarke and Lindros... and the 3rd best overall Flyers resume after Clarke and Parent.

Never said he wasn;t all star.

The problem could be understand what someone means by "Great".

I don't view Giroux as a guy that a team can be built around.
As far as Modano goes, he played in the clutch and grab era so his stats were down. But, I definitely view Modano as a guy a team can be built around.

The conversation isn't necessarily all about statistics.

Notice I didn't include a guy like Doug Gilmour from the 89 Flames or even St. Louis from Tampa.

I view guys like giroux, gilmour, st louis as notch below the guys I mentioned. It doesn't mean I don't believe they're exceptional players and I certainly don't believe someone who disagrees is justified in launching a vitriolic verbal assault.

Its the same type of response launched towards Deadhead when one of these people disagree. Its disrespectful
 

SanBlom

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Certainly but its the coach man and even if we get another coach we are not winning the cup here with these older players. Blow it up.
New coach and one big trade may be enough. I dont know about a full "blow up". Do you want a complete rebuild? All youngens?
 

Appleyard

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They have been possibly the best team in the NHL in terms of drafting since Hextall took over to be fair.

No busts at all and so many guys on track for the NHL, and so many late rounders turning into solid players.


Now Hextall is not perfect, he still has work to do, and in the next couple of years it is vital for him to show that he knows what to do with a team that is ready to compete rather than building one. That will be his biggest challenge, knowing who to bring in and who to ship out to get the perfect mix. Because on paper if they are not one of the better teams in the NHL soon something has gone very wrong, and Hextall will be the one bearing the brunt of that.
 

hatcher

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New coach and one big trade may be enough. I dont know about a full "blow up". Do you want a complete rebuild? All youngens?
Different attitude leaders. These guys take whats there not what they want and the cup teams are relentless and this team has boring players.
 

deadhead

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I think Giroux at his peak could carry a team, from 22-26 he was a top 1C and dynamic playoff performer.

But his physical limitations has caused him to age faster than other top centers, injuries, but also lack of size and straight line speed, which is why it was a smart move to put him at LW with Couts. Guys with great speed can compensate for a loss of a stride or two with experience in their early 30s. Giroux never had that luxury. At LW he has fewer defensive responsibilites and doesn't have to skate as much, saving his legs.

A healthy Couts showed last year that he's a top player, it's obvious that he's hurting to start the season, but durability has been an issue.

Players like Patrick, Vorobyev, Sanheim have a lot of upside, as do the prospects like Rubtsov, Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Ratcliffe, maybe some of the college kids. We'll see, at worst we'll have a really deep team with quality up and down the lineup.
And you can win with "good" players, Bergeron has never scored more than 47 ES points in his best seasons.
 

magnumpi

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They have been possibly the best team in the NHL in terms of drafting since Hextall took over to be fair.

No busts at all and so many guys on track for the NHL, and so many late rounders turning into solid players.


Now Hextall is not perfect, he still has work to do, and in the next couple of years it is vital for him to show that he knows what to do with a team that is ready to compete rather than building one. That will be his biggest challenge, knowing who to bring in and who to ship out to get the perfect mix. Because on paper if they are not one of the better teams in the NHL soon something has gone very wrong, and Hextall will be the one bearing the brunt of that.


I agree with all of that.

My thing right now is that I dont see a future centerpiece. With the depth in system combined with a center that can truly carry the team then we'd be looking at a future cup. I understand its very difficult to acquire.
I'm not saying its easier or blaming Hextall or anybody.

They're so close and I can see the missing element.
 
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JojoTheWhale

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My thing right now is that I dont see a future centerpiece. With the depth in system combined with a center that can truly carry the team then we'd be looking at a future cup. I understand its very difficult to acquire.
I'm not saying its easier or blaming Hextall or anybody.

Thank you for being reasonable. It’s often in short supply with this specific discussion.
 
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Appleyard

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From my perspective what would improve the team realistically going forward in my eyes:

1. A new PK coach.

The Flyers PK has been poor to awful for over 4 seasons now.
Over that time they have used SIXTEEN forwards and THIRTEEN dmen as regulars.
Many of these PKers were good for other teams, or good for the Flyers in prior years, or had great PK stats.

2. Trading Simmonds.

He is a good player and a great Flyer... but he is 30 now, should demand quite a few years and a lot of money, and is probably only the 3rd best RW they have, and Patrick+JvR have shown they can be very good PP forwards in the same spot.

In terms of return I think the best idea would be a younger forward who is already somewhat proven in the NHL... players on teams in win now mode who would value Simmonds and consider him a final piece to get them over the top. The Flyers would not get really any worse now if the return is a good 5v5 player, and gain benefits down the line.

3. Moving on from guys like MacDonald, Weise and Lehtera.

For years the Flyers have had a problem in terms of the bottom of the line-up being outplayed by other teams bottom sixes and 3rd pairings... they have the options in house to replace them that would also improve team speed. If they are on the roster they are going to keep getting played.

4. Strength down the middle.

The end of last season was the first time since maybe 2011-12 where they had 3 centres who were at least average for their role in Couturier, Patrick and Laughton. With Laughton now at wing, Couturier not being himself to start the season, and Vorobyev seemingly taking time to settle, and Weal in and out of the line-up it has been a real problem to start this year.

Even when Couturier finds his game again (which I think will be soon) only him and maybe Patrick can be relied on to outmatch opponents if Laughton remains at wing.

Now the answer may well be in house, and might have to wait until next season, but it needs to be solved, no team can afford to have - in effect - only two lines in general than can consistently come out even or better in their match-ups. That might be the scenario for the Flyers this season again. It has been a problem for way, way too long, and with the depth of the wingers they have just another "solid" centre could help push them towards contention.
 

renberg

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I think Giroux at his peak could carry a team, from 22-26 he was a top 1C and dynamic playoff performer.

But his physical limitations has caused him to age faster than other top centers, injuries, but also lack of size and straight line speed, which is why it was a smart move to put him at LW with Couts. Guys with great speed can compensate for a loss of a stride or two with experience in their early 30s. Giroux never had that luxury. At LW he has fewer defensive responsibilites and doesn't have to skate as much, saving his legs.

A healthy Couts showed last year that he's a top player, it's obvious that he's hurting to start the season, but durability has been an issue.

Players like Patrick, Vorobyev, Sanheim have a lot of upside, as do the prospects like Rubtsov, Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Ratcliffe, maybe some of the college kids. We'll see, at worst we'll have a really deep team with quality up and down the lineup.
And you can win with "good" players, Bergeron has never scored more than 47 ES points in his best seasons.
Look at who Giroux has had as his wings. Clarke had two stars in Braber and Leach. Lindros had Renberg and LeClair. Giroux has had a decent player in Voracek but he's not in the category of what Clarke and Lindros worked with. Giroux's other wing has been a revolving door. Giroux has basically had to carry his line and team. Pretty impressive.
 

Appleyard

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I agree with all of that.

My thing right now is that I dont see a future centerpiece. With the depth in system combined with a center that can truly carry the team then we'd be looking at a future cup. I understand its very difficult to acquire.
I'm not saying its easier or blaming Hextall or anybody.

They're so close and I can see the missing element.

I think the Kings and Bruins kind of showed that teams don't need a true "star" of the McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin nature to contend and win for years on end.

Kopitar, Carter, Williams
Doughty, Voynov

Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic
Chara, Seidenberg

Were those teams best 3 forwards and best 2 dmen. I think the Flyers have players around that level, or prospects/young players who promise to be.

Though both did have elite goalies...
 
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Boxscore

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Forget the past, the problem the Flyers have is that they are a "tweener" team that Hextall continues to cautiously build in order to hedge his bets.

The last three Cups were won by the Pens and Caps. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin. With other star-studded teams like Tampa and Toronto projecting to be powerhouses for the next 5-7 years, the Flyers are going to be hard-pressed to find themselves among the elite, unless Carter Hart is Carey Price great.

The issue with the Flyers "great players" is that they are only great to an extent. Look at Giroux - incredible player, elite season last year, then looked absolutely horrific in the playoffs when we needed him most. Couturier - remarkable breakout last year, and an absolutely heroic performance in the playoffs, despite injury. This season, where is he? Ghost runs red hot then ice cold. Provorov looks like Doughty 2.0 at times, other times he looks like a real good defenseman. Konecny is sometimes great. Patrick, never been sold on him 100%. He has skill, but he's the "type" of player that would have been a team icon in the mid-90's but not today - he lacks the high-end talent, speed and jaw-dropping skills to dominate in the game today. Not to mention, he seems to always get "banged up" and we didn't even get to Myers yet, who is always hurt.

In order for the Flyers to be a true contender down the line, I think ALL of their young players need to pan out (rarely happens). They also need to be extremely consistent, because they will not be able to just wrestle a game away by turning on the star power within a 10 minute span. And, of course, they need to be well-coached. I don't hate Hakstol, I just don't like him all that much. Pretty apathetic towards him.

Personally, I love Simmonds as a player, person, and leader. But he needs to be traded soon, giving another team time to work him into their system and build towards a possible extension. Depending on what the Flyers get back, and how that player impacts the team, will determine what other changes need to be made. But Hextall needs to do something a little ballsy, even if it means including a prized prospect for a YOUNGER "win now" player (aka, Nylander).

I also agree with the other posters who feel the Flyers need a future superstar. We need a Giroux 2.0. I firmly believe Patrick, Konecny, Farabee, Frost... while all very, very good players... all lack the borderline-elite level to carry a team the way Giroux has at times. The only way to overcome that is for all of them to be tier 2 superstars who are insanely consistent. Hot and cold, inconsistent tier 2 superstars will not win in today's NHL... sometimes it's even impossible for elite, tier 1 superstars to win if they battle inconsistency.

All of this said, the other issue the Flyers face, is that they are a rather boring team. The only time I even get semi-excited is when they go on the PP. They don't awe you with skill or speed, they are not physical and/or intimidating, they don't have any snipers (like an Ovechkin, Laine, Matthews, MacKinnon, Kucherov) who are worth the price of admission, and their coach is duller than white paint. They are a very generic, inconsistent team. So, from an entertainment value proposition, color me unimpressed.

Something needs to be done, this is not year 2 of this "plan."
 
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FanForLife

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I guess you missed the entire 17-18 season when he had 31 goals, 76 points and was a Selke finalist. Hes still getting up to speed after a major knee injury.

Garbage comments like this drive me crazy.
Take him away from Giroux and Voracek, off of power play, he'd be lucky to get 35 points. on pace for less then 30 this year. AND hes on power play!!!! You are stupid and blind...drinking the coots koolaid.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Aug 30, 2010
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Get everyone in charge of running and coaching the team into a room and roll in a hand grenade (thank you Bobby Heenan for that line)
 

Roy Batty

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new coach

new gm

different goalies,,,anyone really

trade Simmonds, Macdonald, Hagg

New offensive system

Get Giroux some help. he's dying on the vine.

JVR needs to come back pronto
 

FanForLife

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He played 2 years away from G+V in 2015-17...

and his stats at 5v5 were than of a 1C.


At the end of the year, I'd love to be wrong. He comes around, Flyers will make the playoffs. But I don't think I will be. He had career year last year, he's just not as good as people are wanting him to be. Another weak game today, but they all played poorly. Whoever compared him to Toews and Kopitar....not even close.
 

Jtown

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I really am not surprised about this made up belief that couturier is still injured . Instead of holding him accountable for his poor play posters here are saying he is playing injured and that is not the case.
 
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Magua

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I can't imagine why a player who missed virtually all of training camp might still be injured 3 weeks later after wrecking his knee last spring, then again this summer, and just resting it both times. He's been mediocre in all zones; his underlying stats went from among league best to god awful. That's not him, even if you want to believe in the myth he's not good offensively.
 

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