Were the late 90s/2000 Avalanche a bit of underachievers? | Page 4 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Were the late 90s/2000 Avalanche a bit of underachievers?

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Why should the ultra stacked Stars end up with 0 cup in that whole era ?
Why should the more stacked with more money than the Avs Red Wings not have at least one more cup during that time ?

They lost 4 conference finals during that time, to the Bowman
Ferodov-Larionov-Kozlov-Shanahan-Yzerman with the Lapointe/Maltby/McCarty/Draper dept piece, Fetisov-Rouse-Konstantinov-Murphy-Lidstrom Wings, in 6

One to the 1999 Hithcock Stars with teh Nieuwendyk-Langenbrunner-Hull-Modano-Verbeek-Lethinen with the Keane-Carbonneau-Skrudland, that had the backed by Belfour, Zubov-Sydor-Hatcher-Matvichuck-Ludwig defensive core, in 7

Againt in 2000 same super stacked Dallas stars and 2002 to one of the most stacked squad of all time in 2002 Wings, that they pushed in 7.

They were stacked, so was 2 others team in the West, which represented most of their losts.

it was an interesting era. no team had it all.

colorado had two franchise Cs, and the all time G, but not true 1D before bourque/blake

detroit had the two franchise Cs, and the franchise D, but no true star goalie until hasek

new jersey had the franchise D, all time G, but no 1C (let alone 2)

that leaves dallas. they had the all time goalie, but "only" one franchise C, and there were two 1Ds but neither were franchise players

their depth was great and they had the best 1–4 on D, but i don't think they were on the same level as the other three teams in terms of high end pieces.
 
Why should the ultra stacked Stars end up with 0 cup in that whole era ?
Why should the more stacked with more money than the Avs Red Wings not have at least one more cup during that time ?

They lost 4 conference finals during that time, to the Bowman
Ferodov-Larionov-Kozlov-Shanahan-Yzerman with the Lapointe/Maltby/McCarty/Draper dept piece, Fetisov-Rouse-Konstantinov-Murphy-Lidstrom Wings, in 6

One to the 1999 Hithcock Stars with teh Nieuwendyk-Langenbrunner-Hull-Modano-Verbeek-Lethinen with the Keane-Carbonneau-Skrudland, that had the backed by Belfour, Zubov-Sydor-Hatcher-Matvichuck-Ludwig defensive core, in 7

Againt in 2000 same super stacked Dallas stars and 2002 to one of the most stacked squad of all time in 2002 Wings, that they pushed in 7.

They were stacked, so was 2 others team in the West, which represented most of their losts.
So they were the real.prwtwnder is what you're saying? 🤔

😏
 
That's one of Colorado's most impressive accomplishments. They made it to the Western conference finals six times in a span of seven years.

Looking at the past seven seasons (2019/2020 season-present)

Florida - x 3 (3-0)
Carolina - x 3 (they lost in 2023 & 2025, this year is TBD)
Tampa - x 3 (3-0)
Vegas - x 3 (2-1)
Oilers - x 3 (2-1)

So the best teams have only made it half as many times as the Avs did.
 
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Looking at the past seven seasons (2019/2020 season-present)

Florida - x 3 (3-0)
Carolina - x 3 (they lost in 2023 & 2025, this year is TBD)
Tampa - x 3 (3-0)
Vegas - x 3 (2-1)
Oilers - x 3 (2-1)

So the best teams have only made it half as many times as the Avs did.
Colorado is at 10 playoff series wins from 2018-19 season (when Makar joins during Playoffs) to 2025-26.

From a rolling 8-year perpsective, I think it's a little underwhelming relative to expectations. Eight is a bit of an arbitrary number of course, but Carolina (present), Chicago, Detroit, Florida, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay (who has the 8-year rolling cap era record with 18 from 2014-2015 -2021-2022) and Vegas all have cap era runs that best it, with Boston, Dallas (present) and Los Angeles all having runs to tie it.

Of course if Colorado won the Cup next year, they'd be at 13 from 2019-20 through 2026-27 which puts them right in business with best cap era runs.
 
Wings.: 2.66 vs 3
Avs...: 1.72 vs 2
Devils: 1.62 vs 3
Flyers: 1.54 vs 0
Stars.: 1.40 vs 1
Blues.: 1.05 vs 0


Stay very similar affair, Devils big overperformer, Wings-Avs did achieve above mediocrity, Flyers the big underperformer, Stars a bit underperformed with a single cup.

I think one issue with the Avs should have won X more... the Wings were better with way more money, they should always won at least one more than them, Devils-Stars need some, there is not many cups left to be won.

both wings-avs round up, stars round down, devils get a full extra cup in there (a bit of mix of getting part of the flyers single finals and getting the Stars second one in the finals in a bit of direct way)
I wonder what 1995-03 would have looked like if Detroit was in the East like they are now.
 
The current Avs are definitely more disappointing.

When Colorado won in 2022 I was legit thinking (worried) they'd rattle off a dynasty. Of course, it means a lot less to me today than back in the day, but I still got enough Avs hate in my heart that it would bother me. What a squandered opportunity and disappointing stretch lol, not even like they were losing to the Panthers or something.

The beautiful rival Avs of the dead puck era I love to hate won their cup in their one wire to wire dominant 2001 year even missing Forsberg for the last two rounds (though a Detroit sans Yzerman and Shanahan was unceremoniously bounced by the Kings in the first round, even healthy I don't like the chances against Colorado that year, though obviously also depends if Colorado don't got Forsberg).

But they also won in 1996 against probably the best Wings team of my lifetime, maybe ever (ironically just like Colorado this year they peaked too early in the season and had their key injuries to their superstar center and defenseman, although the Wings showed that they already weren't firing on all cylinders against Winnipeg and then especially St. Louis, Colorado this year still cut through their first two rounds including against another powerhouse in Minny)

Then they beat the Wings again in 1999, probably the third best team after 1996 and 2002 especially after the big trade deadline (somewhat fortunately getting to exploit Ranford as the series went on) and 2000 (comfortably this time as they were just better and Wings needed a retune), though Dallas was the wire to wire best team in 1999 and the expected champion that year, and generally matched up well against them so give 2000 a pass.

I still don't really get what happened in 1998, but every team has those stumbles, and the Avs did briefly take a lead even in 2002 against the Wings (although I thought they were a bit lucky to be up in the first place and the Wings absolutely left no doubt in the last couple games so it looks closer than I think it was).

Yes, they probably should have done better in 2003, especially with Detroit unceremoniously embarrassed and out of the way, and even Dallas dispatched by the Ducks. 2004 had super high expectations to start given the marquee of Kariya and Selanne joining, but they were basically a shell of themselves due to injuries, and it was all over once Forsberg went out for the season.

So basically I think the Forsberg/Sakic Avs got one cup when they were expected to, one where they were real good but not the best and they beat the best to get there, and two years where they actually underachieved relative to expectations, which every team is going to run into from time to time. On a whole other level than the MacKinnon/Makar Avs.

I always consider it a shame that the Wings never got even a shot to redeem themselves against the embarrassment of 1995 against the Devils, and the Devils also dispatched Dallas. Colorado though was the team that beat that big bad team in the east, they got even that feather in their cap.
 
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If we are going to squint to see "dynasties" like Vegas in the current era then the '86 to '93 Habs and the '86 to '89 Flames.

I was responding to the idea that the Devils/Wings/Stars/Avs were "dynasties" who were only losing to each other.

I've always been clear that the term should be reserved for teams that largely maintain a core identity while they:
A) win 3+ championships
B) where those 3+ championships represent 50% + 1 of available championships in their run
C) and there's a title defense in there somewhere

Though if we count the Dallas Stars, then yes, I'd say the Habs/Flames were in a similar boat.

Perhaps we should call them "contenders"?
 
If we use the qualifier a bit then I think it's fair. Sakic & Roy shat the bed multiple times.
 
I look at Colorado, Detroit, New Jersey, and Dallas all collectively stopping each other from becoming dynasties during this period.
A lot of people including me wonder if the Avalanche win the Cup in 1999 &/or 2000 if they get past the Stars in the Conference Final. Up 3-2 in the series in 1999, blow it. Lose a tight back & forth series in 7 games in 2000.
 
A lot of people including me wonder if the Avalanche win the Cup in 1999 &/or 2000 if they get past the Stars in the Conference Final. Up 3-2 in the series in 1999, blow it. Lose a tight back & forth series in 7 games in 2000.
1999 definitely. WCF was the true SCF that season. 2000 is more difficult to predict if there was an Avs/Devils final a year early. Avs didn't have Rob Blake yet, Devils would've had home ice, and Sakic wasn't playing as well in 2000 as 2001. On the other hand, the Avs would've had Forsberg this series.
 
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And losing in 1998 to the Oilers.

They were shut out in each of the last two games of that series (and had one goal in the last three games). How does that happen?
I think the Olympics that year wore them down. They sent the most players. Cujo went on a heater as well.

And the 98 team wasn’t very deep. Lacroix was cutting salary after Sakic signed the offer sheet with the rangers. Ricci, Keane, young, Krupp etc. all gone.

99 brought them drury and Hejduk to reload. And 99 was the beginning of the deadline all in pushes of fleury, Bourque, Blake.
 
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Mega chokers.

Roy was a great goalie but mega overrated per his actual results.

That team was stacked and the best they could do was 2 Cup wins in 8 years. They couldn't even get a third SCF appearance in.

The Curse of their nickname and their repulsive jerseys.

It amazes me still today. Detroit won 3, New Jersey won 3...Avalanche 2....

1 of thise Devils or the Stars title should have been an Avakanche win

I alwsys wondered what stopped them...Roy maybe? He did have a tendency to lose interest sometimes
Roy lost to teams with hall of fame goalies. Vernon. Belfour. Hasek.

Osgood and Cujo while not in the hall, have outstanding resumes.

99,00,02. Avs couldn’t score in game 7. Or game 6 in those series.

Shutout vs oilers. 97 1 goal in last loss.

Roy got them there, last guy to question.
 

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