Buffalo Bills Week 17: New York Jets (4-11) at Buffalo (12-3), 12/29, 1:00 PM, CBS

[misterchainsaw]

I live how the 17-3 win over the Ravens (where the go ahead TD was defensive) is just papered over. Prove you wrong? You just did that yourself.

Some of you deserve to go back to the drought years.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

I live how the 17-3 win over the Ravens (where the go ahead TD was defensive) is just papered over. Prove you wrong? You just did that yourself.

Some of you deserve to go back to the drought years.

McDermott regularly can't beat teams with great quarterbacks. Sorry for stating facts. Take the blinders off.

 

[misterchainsaw]

McDermott regularly can't beat teams with great quarterbacks. Sorry for stating facts. Take the blinders off.

Great QB's are difficult to beat regularly. That's why they're great. Allen was in position to beat Mahomes last year and couldn't get it done. The playoff meeting before it was decided by who won the coin toss.

We've beaten Mahomes four straight times in the regular season. Can't beat great QB's my ass.

And yeah, you want to excuse the Ravens game by their playoff history. We scored more defensive points than Baltimore scored on offense, and it's a good thing, too, because the offense was terrible that day. NO ONE has done that to Lamar in the NFL in the playoffs except us. I'm not sure anyone's even done that to Lamar in any of his regular season games.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You danced around my point. As head coach, McDermott has not defeated a team with a high end quarterback in the playoffs.

No dancing here. He has faced three high end quarterbacks, Lamar, Mahomes, and burrow. They beat Lamar…with a great defensive performance

They played Mahomes down to the wire two out of three times.

His teams consistently roll over and die when facing them.

Except the defensive performances against Lamar and Mahomes, last year. Right

His job is to win games, including in the playoffs. Being .500 in the postseaon is not what I would call winning at an incredible rate and I don't see the logic in maligning those fans for having an expectation of postseason success. A win in the wild card round and then bowing out is not success. Should I congratulate him for squeaking out wins against a Dolphins team playing their 3rd QB? Or against a brink of retirement Rivers? How about the Steelers 2nd string QB? You know what, since you mentioned it, Bravo to Sean for beating the choke artist Ravens on an incredible play by Taron. You sure showed everyone when you followed that up with an incredible ass kicking by the Chiefs.

Yes, you should congratulate how McDermott has turned this franchise around. Congratulate him with how much he wins. Congratulate him on setting the standard so high for this franchise, that you think it winning a Super Bowl in a four year span is unacceptable. What an incredible standard HE has set in you. To think that is what you expect is an indication of how good he is.

Prove me wrong.

If any coach was in the business of proving fans wrong, they’d all be out of business. All of them.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

Great QB's are difficult to beat regularly. That's why they're great. Allen was in position to beat Mahomes last year and couldn't get it done. The playoff meeting before it was decided by who won the coin toss.

We've beaten Mahomes four straight times in the regular season. Can't beat great QB's my ass.

And yeah, you want to excuse the Ravens game by their playoff history. NO ONE has done that to Lamar in the NFL in the playoffs except us. I'm not sure anyone's even done that to Lamar in any of his regular season games.

I hear a ton of excuses. Win more than one game in the playoffs. Would you like to list the other great QBs we beat this season?

 

[misterchainsaw]

I hear a ton of excuses. Win more than one game in the playoffs. Would you like to list the other great QBs we beat this season?

We're f***ing 11-3 in what was widely regarded coming in as a rebuilding year.

How insufferable can you f***ing get?

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

We're f***ing 11-3 in what was widely regarded coming in as a rebuilding year.

How insufferable can you f***ing get?

This is such a loser city that expecting more than a single win in this post season is insufferable. Sean has a weakness, its teams who can sling the ball. I don't understand why that fact upsets you lot.

 

[misterchainsaw]

This is such a loser city that expecting more than a single win in this post season is insufferable. Sean has a weakness, its teams who can sling the ball. I don't understand why that fact upsets you lot.

No, loser cities force coaches like McDermott out when immediate gratification isn't had. And then they go back to actually losing a lot.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is such a loser city that expecting more than a single win in this post season is insufferable. Sean has a weakness, its teams who can sling the ball. I don't understand why that fact upsets you lot.

it isn’t a fact. You’re ignoring every fact to the contrary

 

[zenthusiast]

The margins to win any game is small. I don’t understand the argument that it is any smaller in the postseason other than you are playing exclusively good teams. But the bills have been highly successful the last five years against good teams, it’s not like the Bills look any different in the playoffs.

You all really don’t think McDermott has the coaching ability to beat KC last year where we lost by three points where our defense was decimated. If you don’t think he is good enough to win that game, why not for that game. If you do think he is good enough to win that game, why don’t you think is good enough to win the last two games after being good enough to beat KC?

Well yeah, it’s that they’re playing good teams, and they haven’t been successful against good teams in the playoffs outside of a win 4 years ago against the Ravens. Since that win, they’ve lost by two scores to KC, obliterated the Mac Jones patriots, fumbled away a victory against KC, barely beat the Skylar Thompson fins, got embarrassed by the Bengals, beaten Kenny Pickett Steelers by two scores, and lost close to KC (though statistically, a little fortunate to be that close).

To answer the question you pose, I don’t think his coaching will be the reason that they win a championship. It’s Josh’s play that will do it, and that’s fine! You can win with a coach who handles business and doesn’t err when the heat is on. I don’t trust him not to do that.

 

[zenthusiast]

This is such a loser city that expecting more than a single win in this post season is insufferable. Sean has a weakness, its teams who can sling the ball. I don't understand why that fact upsets you lot.

Every defense is worse against good quarterbacks. The gap is just more significant for our defense.

 

[zenthusiast]

If we didn’t have an absolute superstar in his prime slinging it, the timing wouldn’t matter as much. But if they go out in the divisional or in a multi-score loss in the AFC championship again, how much longer do you let them go without tweaking the formula?

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

If we didn’t have an absolute superstar in his prime slinging it, the timing wouldn’t matter as much. But if they go out in the divisional or in a multi-score loss in the AFC championship again, how much longer do you let them go without tweaking the formula?

I mean it was a reset year. I’d absolutely stay the course and reload for next year.

 

[zenthusiast]

I mean it was a reset year. I’d absolutely stay the course and reload for next year.

It might have been the fan expectation going into the year but the quarterback is playing like the best player in football. If he maintains this level and they don’t progress forward from their usual standard, that’s failure.

 

[misterchainsaw]

It might have been the fan expectation going into the year but the quarterback is playing like the best player in football. If he maintains this level and they don’t progress forward from their usual standard, that’s failure.

It's almost like the lights out play of the offensive line and the balance Brady has brought to the offense has something to do with that.

You're discounting coaching to a ridiculous degree. What coaches do during the week is at least as and probably more important than their gameday duties (as long they hire good coordinators, which is also sorta part of the job). The most important trait of a head coach is to be a great leader. Andy Reid is first and foremost a great leader. Mike Tomlin is a great leader. So is McDermott. You want to build for the long term and put yourself into position to win every year.

But, to add on that, McDermott's actually been an above average, at worst, gameday coach this year. He was correct in going for it on 4th and 7 against KC, and no one else had been doing that. His 4th down call to go for it up 14-7 against Detroit had a much greater impact on win percentage than the 15-20 second difference calling timeout vs. not calling timeout would have had against the Rams.

There's a sect of fans who's just waiting for him to make a perceived mistake and uses that to shit all over a level of sustained success that arguably not even Levy's Bills enjoyed.

 

[zenthusiast]

It's almost like the lights out play of the offensive line and the balance Brady has brought to the offense has something to do with that.

You're discounting coaching to a ridiculous degree. What coaches do during the week is at least as and probably more important than their gameday duties (as long they hire good coordinators, which is also sorta part of the job). The most important trait of a head coach is to be a great leader. Andy Reid is first and foremost a great leader. Mike Tomlin is a great leader. So is McDermott. You want to build for the long term and put yourself into position to win every year.

But, to add on that, McDermott's actually been an above average, at worst, gameday coach this year. He was correct in going for it on 4th and 7 against KC, and no one else had been doing that. His 4th down call to go for it up 14-7 against Detroit had a much greater impact on win percentage than the 15-20 second difference calling timeout vs. not calling timeout would have had against the Rams.

There's a sect of fans who's just waiting for him to make a perceived mistake and uses that to shit all over a level of sustained success that arguably not even Levy's Bills enjoyed.

Hey, if you want Joe Brady to be the head coach of the bills, sure. Give it a shot. I’d probably wouldn’t defer to that but if the team were to hypothetically move on, I expect internal consistency would win out. It’ll be an interesting question if they get drubbed early and Brady has other teams calling.

With respect to the 90s bills as a comparison, I’d certainly prefer deeper playoff runs to getting bounced early after a few more regular season wins. That’s my preferred metric for success here, but to each his own.

 

[zenthusiast]

With that said, although I sit in my dank, shadowy cave rubbing my hands together at the thought of being able to post “I think another coach would maximize our chances of a championship” as the greatest victory possible, I’d enjoy the Buffalo Bills winning a Super Bowl.

 

[HaNotsri]

If we didn’t have an absolute superstar in his prime slinging it, the timing wouldn’t matter as much. But if they go out in the divisional or in a multi-score loss in the AFC championship again, how much longer do you let them go without tweaking the formula?

They are in the middle of tweaking the formula. So far the result is 11-3 mid re-tool.

 

[zenthusiast]

At a certain level no team is the same as it was the year before, but I think you understand the scope of my meaning. Not to mention that the regular season isn’t my metric.

 

[misterchainsaw]

Hey, if you want Joe Brady to be the head coach of the bills, sure.Give it a shot. I’d probably wouldn’t defer to that but if the team were to hypothetically move on, I expect internal consistency would win out. It’ll be an interesting question if they get drubbed early and Brady has other teams calling.

With respect to the 90s bills as a comparison, I’d certainly prefer deeper playoff runs to getting bounced early after a few more regular season wins. That’s my preferred metric for success here, but to each his own.

Holy missing the point.

 

[zenthusiast]

Holy missing the point.

Ironic. It was a joke.

 

[buffa dud]

This is such a loser city that expecting more than a single win in this post season is insufferable. Sean has a weakness, its teams who can sling the ball. I don't understand why that fact upsets you lot.

That's a statement - not a fact. If you want to present it as a fact, bring up actual numbers and support them with context.

 

[buffa dud]

No, loser cities force coaches like McDermott out when immediate gratification isn't had. And then they go back to actually losing a lot.

The Sabres and the McDavid tank should be a painful reminder of this to everyone.

It's easy to burn an organization to the ground. Building what Beane and McDermott have is far more difficult, and using Championships as some kind of litmus is a fool's errand.

 

[buffa dud]

At a certain level no team is the same as it was the year before, but I think you understand the scope of my meaning. Not to mention that the regular season isn’t my metric.

I might reconsider that position. The regular season is 18 weeks long. The post-season is maybe 8.

Given we only have so much time available to us before we're dead and buried, I'd argue that it's more important that we have the opportunity to enjoy quality football for 18 weeks played by one of the best talent of all-time than an almost completely arbitrary game in which a trophy is handed out in the end (not even a good one, by the way.)

In short: There will only be one Dominik Hasek. There will be one Stanley Cup awarded every year. Savor those years.

 

[Jim Bob]

You danced around my point. As head coach, McDermott has not defeated a team with a high end quarterback in the playoffs. His teams consistently roll over and die when facing them. His job is to win games, including in the playoffs. Being .500 in the postseaon is not what I would call winning at an incredible rate and I don't see the logic in maligning those fans for having an expectation of postseason success. A win in the wild card round and then bowing out is not success. Should I congratulate him for squeaking out wins against a Dolphins team playing their 3rd QB? Or against a brink of retirement Rivers? How about the Steelers 2nd string QB? You know what, since you mentioned it, Bravo to Sean for beating the choke artist Ravens on an incredible play by Taron. You sure showed everyone when you followed that up with an incredible ass kicking by the Chiefs.

Prove me wrong.

Here is the challenge with the "win in the playoffs" mindset: it's really hard and even coaches with a SB ring and consistent records of winning in the regular season can have losing playoff records.

Mike Tomlin has a SB ring and a second SB appearance with the Steelers. He also has a 8-10 record in the postseason.

John Harbaugh has a SB ring and is only two games over .500 in the playoffs at 12-10.

McDermott being 5-6 in the playoffs, while disappointing, also is not a playoff record that is easily improved upon with a new coach, as well.