Buffalo Bills Week 13: San Francisco (5-6) at Buffalo (9-2), 12/1, 8:20 PM, NBC and Peacock

misterchainsaw

Preparing PHASE TWO!
Nov 3, 2005
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The thing that scares me about Baltimore is the home run ability in the run game. They can just break the big one at any time, and our defense is still susceptible to that.
They can line up full house and beat you to the corner from it. Lamar has been pretty good from the pocket this year at all levels of throws and it just makes that offense unfair.

I think I'm glad for the result tonight, even if there were some fun thoughts of the Chargers having a shot at the Chiefs in the west if they got past this game.

I'm not sure I'd hate the 2 seed if it meant the Chiefs and Ravens playing in round two and us getting, well, ANYONE else.
 
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Zman5778

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I'm not sure I'd hate the 2 seed of it meant the Chiefs and Ravens playing in round two and us getting, well, ANYONE else.
If getting the 2 seed means we get the Dolphins/Chargers/Broncos/Colts at home in the WC round.....and then the Steelers in the divisional round (or another one of the Dolphins/Chargers/Broncos/Colts)? And only have to play either the Ravens OR the Chiefs?

As opposed to the bye and then BOTH the Ravens AND Chiefs?

I know I'm supposed to say I want the bye. I know I'm supposed to say I want to beat the best on the way to a 'Ship.

I don't think I can say either.


That said, in an ideal world -- we get the 1 seed. Divisional round against the Texans or Steelers and then the AFCGC at home against the winner of Ravens/Chiefs - who beat each other into a bloody pulp.
 
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TehDoak

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I think it's safe to say at this point that LA's defensive numbers were inflated by a weak schedule to open the season. Baltimore having their way with them after a slow-ish start.

I actually think their offense's inability to sustain drives was the issue today and red zone problems. The game was close until the 4th quarter. If they score 3 TDs and 1 FG instead of 1 TD and 3 FGs before the start of the 4th, its a much different game. So many dropped passes by the chargers, especially in the second half. The lack of weapons in the passing game for Herbert is going to be their doom.

The game turned when they went 3 and out on their second drive of the second half and punted it back to the ravens. They broke a 51 yard run for a TD and then the game was downhill for Baltimore instead of back and forth.

And this game was actually extremely important for the Chargers because their BEST case scenario was to be the 5 seed and play Houston in the WC round. Now its likely they get the 6 seed with one of Baltimore/Pittsburgh getting the 5 seed, which means they have to travel to the other.
 

yahhockey

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Steelers: @ Bengals, vs Browns, @ Eagles, @ Ravens, vs Chiefs, vs Bengals
Ravens: vs Eagles, @ Giants, vs Steelers, @ Texans, vs Browns

They currently have the same number of wins but the Steelers have one less loss. The Ravens still have a decent shot at winning the division. I wouldn't be gunning for the two seed with the expectations the Ravens remain the fifth seed. Even if they remain the fifth seed it's not out of the realm of possibility that a team goes into Pittsburgh and wins so that team would play KC and Buffalo still faces Baltimore in the divisional round. It is advantageous to play one less playoff game. The potential hypotheticals about opponents has too many unknowns. The known of guys being healthier and having one less game on their body to potentially cause injuries is more important. If the Ravens falter down the stretch and end up fifth or lower then maybe they aren't the team you are scared to face.
 

TehDoak

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Milano will help, but he won't solve the issue. It's a scheme problem.

Buffalo will give up the runs to the second level. The problem is that if a RB can break contain on the 2nd level they can break off a huge run. Go back and look at the big runs, its almost always a clean hole where an RB can get some momentem and then run past a linebacker to the secondary and it becomes a foot race.

Its really just a trade off, big runs like that are rarer than big pass plays, and teams need more to go right for it to happen. Its frustrating, for sure. But overall success of the defense suggests its the proper decision.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
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Milano will help, but he won't solve the issue. It's a scheme problem.

Buffalo will give up the runs to the second level. The problem is that if a RB can break contain on the 2nd level they can break off a huge run. Go back and look at the big runs, its almost always a clean hole where an RB can get some momentem and then run past a linebacker to the secondary and it becomes a foot race.

Its really just a trade off, big runs like that are rarer than big pass plays, and teams need more to go right for it to happen. Its frustrating, for sure. But overall success of the defense suggests its the proper decision.
I would argue that it is a scheme choice and not a scheme problem.

There is no defensive scheme that can take away everything that a quality NFL offense wants to do. The Bills defense is designed to take away explosives in the passing game first and foremost. That is why they have played nickel about 80% of the time, dime about 20% of the time, and rarely played with either 3 LBs or with a heavy box.

The Bills D is 7th in Points Allowed, 7th in Passing Yards per Attempt, 4th in INTs, & t-5th in fumbles recovered.

Because they play so much nickel and dime and they play so many light boxes and dare teams to run against them, they get gashed in the running game when they make alignment and/or run fit mistakes. But, that is the gamble they are willing to make in order to make it really hard to get explosive plays in the passing game.

They are making the bet that explosive running plays are rarer than explosive passing plays if they were to take Taron Johnson off the field and play a 4-3. Or, if they were to load up the box against the run on a more regular basis and give up more on the backend.

And even with all that, the Bills have only given up 6 rushing TDs this season (tied for 3rd fewest in the NFL).

They give up a lot of yards per carry (t-3rd worst at 4.8 YPC), but they have been good at stopping the run in the red zone and not giving up rushing TDs.

At the end of the day, I'll take a defense that is pretty good at taking the ball away, not giving up a lot of points, and has been solid when needed for the most part (red zone & second half).
 

Der Jaeger

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Feb 14, 2009
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Milano will help, but he won't solve the issue. It's a scheme problem.

Buffalo will give up the runs to the second level. The problem is that if a RB can break contain on the 2nd level they can break off a huge run. Go back and look at the big runs, its almost always a clean hole where an RB can get some momentem and then run past a linebacker to the secondary and it becomes a foot race.

Its really just a trade off, big runs like that are rarer than big pass plays, and teams need more to go right for it to happen. Its frustrating, for sure. But overall success of the defense suggests its the proper decision.
I would argue that it is a scheme choice and not a scheme problem.

There is no defensive scheme that can take away everything that a quality NFL offense wants to do. The Bills defense is designed to take away explosives in the passing game first and foremost. That is why they have played nickel about 80% of the time, dime about 20% of the time, and rarely played with either 3 LBs or with a heavy box.

The Bills D is 7th in Points Allowed, 7th in Passing Yards per Attempt, 4th in INTs, & t-5th in fumbles recovered.

Because they play so much nickel and dime and they play so many light boxes and dare teams to run against them, they get gashed in the running game when they make alignment and/or run fit mistakes. But, that is the gamble they are willing to make in order to make it really hard to get explosive plays in the passing game.

They are making the bet that explosive running plays are rarer than explosive passing plays if they were to take Taron Johnson off the field and play a 4-3. Or, if they were to load up the box against the run on a more regular basis and give up more on the backend.

And even with all that, the Bills have only given up 6 rushing TDs this season (tied for 3rd fewest in the NFL).

They give up a lot of yards per carry (t-3rd worst at 4.8 YPC), but they have been good at stopping the run in the red zone and not giving up rushing TDs.

At the end of the day, I'll take a defense that is pretty good at taking the ball away, not giving up a lot of points, and has been solid when needed for the most part (red zone & second half).
Agree, it is not a scheme problem. It's a scheme design.

Buffalo's defense is very similar to the Tampa 2 defense from 25 years ago, Dallas' defense from the early 1990s, and the mid-2010s Bills defense. All those defenses featured a talent-heavy defensive line which valued single gap penetration to disrupt blocking schemes, and then a back seven which played heavy zone to read and react to what came of the line of scrimmage play. All of these defenses are derivatives of the 1970s Steeler defenses.

When you play that type of defense, you are committing to minimizing big passing plays but you can get gashed by a power running game if the runner hits the right gap. It's risk reward and you need to have a high level of talent in the front four.

Dallas overcame the run game deficiencies by rotating six linemen next to Charles Haley. Russell Maryland, Tony Casillas, and Tony Tolbert played on run downs, and Leon Lett, Jimmy Johnson, and Jim Jeffcoat played on passing downs. It also helped that Dallas had a possession offense which didn't turn the ball over and controlled time of possession.

Tampa was able to overcome the run issues in a bunch of different ways. First, they had 3 HoF caliber linemen in Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, and Booger McFarland. Second, they were able to afford Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, and Ronde Barber on defense by being very frugal on offense. Third, Tampa ran a possession passing attack (Gruden's horizontal attack) combined with running from Mike Alstott to keep the ball from opponents.

The mid-2010 Bills had Mario Williams, Marcell Darius, Jerry Hughes, and Kyle Williams on their front 4. Maybe one of the most talented defensive lines in history, just part of a team that didn't win anything so no one remembers them.

If I'm the Bills, I don't think taking swings at a crazy talented defensive line or stacking the 2nd and 3rd level of the defense is the way to go. I'd look at a Dallas style line where you can rotate in talent. In the most recent mock draft I ran, I had the Bills taking Landon Jackson and Dontay Corleone in the second round, and Nazir Stackhouse later in the draft, because of my preference for this method.

In terms of defensive scheme and complimentary football, the Bills are fine. Brady is running a ball control offense, which when it is working, gets the Bills points while keeping the ball away from the other team (see the KC game). When you start to get into those types of games, the opposing offense gets down and the OC can get impatient. That will drive play calling towards passes, which is exactly what the Bills want.

If anything, I think Babich should be prepared to add in a traditional 4-3 alignment with Taron Johnson going to safety, in the event they are getting gashed by the run in the playoffs and the game is tight. Besides that, it's all working.
 

Dirty Dog

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I don’t necessarily disagree about all the scheme talk.

But I’m also not going to pretend that generally whenever you see a huge run we’ve given up, you’ll see a horrible individual play from both (or at least) a safety and linebacker. Dorian Williams completely biting on a misdirection or damar hamlin over committing to a horrible angle up near the line scrimmage that removes himself from the play.

So I don’t think giving up huge plays is inherent in the scheme, I think it’s the result of poor execution.
 

ValJamesDuex

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I don’t necessarily disagree about all the scheme talk.

But I’m also not going to pretend that generally whenever you see a huge run we’ve given up, you’ll see a horrible individual play from both (or at least) a safety and linebacker. Dorian Williams completely biting on a misdirection or damar hamlin over committing to a horrible angle up near the line scrimmage that removes himself from the play.

So I don’t think giving up huge plays is inherent in the scheme, I think it’s the result of poor execution.
They have given up those types of running plays going back to Frazier, but I also agree about your point about players, so I think it's a bit of both.
 
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Dirty Dog

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They have given up those types of running plays going back to Frazier, but I also agree about your point about players, so I think it's a bit of both.
I tried to see a stat of giving up 20 plus yard runs in a year, but couldn’t find any! I definitely remember giving up those plays, but I wonder where the bills fall relative to the rest of the league
 
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