GDT: we suck again (canes vs kings)

[Anton Dubinchuk]

To the people that brought up relocation after this 5 game losing streak, you suck. Go Canes

And calling Anton. Any chance we can use comeback magic on a season?

you'll just have to see... cant reveal whether or not i put comeback magic, otherwise the secret will be out and if i did put magic itll fade

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So the 2 folks I put easily in the top 5 of knowing their **** on this board saw it exactly the same way I did?

Stunning

It should be obvious if I'm defending Hainsey on a play there's no way Hainsey was the one ****ed up.

I'd say it was a combination of the two. Hainsey pinched because McGinn was covering his position. However, as Tripp said last night, McGinn is typically the last to change on that line, and considering his linemates were exhausted, odds are that he was looking for a change as well. And I'm betting that's what the hesitation was on the blueline. He was likely looking for a change, but realized (too late) that it was his man to cover.

So the team was punished for both players being unaware of the situation. Hainsey shouldn't have pinched when the forward line was changing, and McGinn should have been more aware of his defensive responsibilities.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I'd say it was a combination of the two. Hainsey pinched because McGinn was covering his position. However, as Tripp said last night, McGinn is typically the last to change on that line, and considering his linemates were exhausted, odds are that he was looking for a change as well. And I'm betting that's what the hesitation was on the blueline. He was likely looking for a change, but realized (too late) that it was his man to cover.

So the team was punished for both players being unaware of the situation. Hainsey shouldn't have pinched when the forward line was changing, and McGinn should have been more aware of his defensive responsibilities.

So Hainsey needs to diagnose that his forwards are going to change while the puck is currently on Kopitar's stick advancing towards the Canes zone?

 

[CandyCanes]

you'll just have to see... cant reveal whether or not i put comeback magic, otherwise the secret will be out and if i did put magic itll fade

True true trueeeeee.... Just know I believe.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'd say it was a combination of the two. Hainsey pinched because McGinn was covering his position. However, as Tripp said last night, McGinn is typically the last to change on that line, and considering his linemates were exhausted, odds are that he was looking for a change as well. And I'm betting that's what the hesitation was on the blueline. He was likely looking for a change, but realized (too late) that it was his man to cover.

So the team was punished for both players being unaware of the situation. Hainsey shouldn't have pinched when the forward line was changing, and McGinn should have been more aware of his defensive responsibilities.

I disagree that Hainsey "pinched" in the conventional sense of that term. He had a clear assignment to cover Kopitar in that situation. Even if he had backed off and remained at the red line, he clearly should still have been fronting Kopitar as long as he was a threat for zone entry. Whether or not he steps up on Kopitar has no material impact on the outcome as long as his teammates maintain their own assignments.

The thing is, if you look at the play that Kopitar made there, he knew exactly what the Canes were doing defensively. He knew he was man/man with Hainsey, he knew there was a forward coming back to cover for defense. He created a vacuum and set up his teammates to play a 2-on-2 with a forward covering. What he might not have known, in that split second, was that the forward was a rookie who was in the process of making a major positional error which would transform the 2-on-2 into a 2-on-1.

Observe:

[nhl2]c-48819003[/nhl2]

As he crosses the red line, McGinn is fixated on looking at the puck. He's hustling back so it's understandable that he's got his back turned, but critically he doesn't pivot into a defensive position at this instant when he has the chance. Therefore, he's stuck in tunnel-vision mode rather than having a full view of the ice to diagnose what's happening. He gives Doughty a quick glance, then focuses on the puck.

Doughty has now crossed the ice, left to right, to fill the vacuum that Kopitar created. Because McGinn didn't pivot when he crossed the red line, he's lost in the play. When he tries to find Doughty in his old position, there's only empty ice. For a crucial half-second, McGinn keeps floating over to the right wing rather than going into emergency "you've lost your man, dummy, so skate back hard and pivot as you cross the blue line" mode.

In the video it gets obscured by the Fox-box, but this is McGinn's "Oh ****" moment. Having lost Doughty, and having at no point pivoted into proper defensive position, he's coasted all the way over to the right wing without an idea of who his assignment is supposed to be. The freeze-frame above is the exact instant when he first lays eyes on Gaborik, hits the brakes, and attempts to stick-check him just to slow him down on his clear path to the net.


The line change had nothing to do with any of this. Kopitar and Doughty ran something that looks an awful lot like a set play, taking advantage of the Canes' man-on-man defensive scheme to create a vacuum, and McGinn completely misread the situation -- at least in part because of a lack of rigor in his physical positioning and not having his head on a swivel. This is what we get when we leave a rookie winger as the high man on the forecheck against three All Star caliber opponents.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

And then Hanifin whiffs on the rebound

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And then Hanifin whiffs on the rebound

Yep, he got caught flat footed along the boards directly before that letting Setoguchi come in 1 on 1 vs. it just being a 1 on 2. Then, IMO (can't say for sure), he didn't give it 100% skating back, then whiffed on it.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I disagree that Hainsey "pinched" in the conventional sense of that term. He had a clear assignment to cover Kopitar in that situation. Even if he had backed off and remained at the red line, he clearly should still have been fronting Kopitar as long as he was a threat for zone entry. Whether or not he steps up on Kopitar has no material impact on the outcome as long as his teammates maintain their own assignments.

The thing is, if you look at the play that Kopitar made there, he knew exactly what the Canes were doing defensively. He knew he was man/man with Hainsey, he knew there was a forward coming back to cover for defense. He created a vacuum and set up his teammates to play a 2-on-2 with a forward covering. What he might not have known, in that split second, was that the forward was a rookie who was in the process of making a major positional error which would transform the 2-on-2 into a 2-on-1.

Observe:

[nhl2]c-48819003[/nhl2]

As he crosses the red line, McGinn is fixated on looking at the puck. He's hustling back so it's understandable that he's got his back turned, but critically he doesn't pivot into a defensive position at this instant when he has the chance. Therefore, he's stuck in tunnel-vision mode rather than having a full view of the ice to diagnose what's happening. He gives Doughty a quick glance, then focuses on the puck.

Doughty has now crossed the ice, left to right, to fill the vacuum that Kopitar created. Because McGinn didn't pivot when he crossed the red line, he's lost in the play. When he tries to find Doughty in his old position, there's only empty ice. For a crucial half-second, McGinn keeps floating over to the right wing rather than going into emergency "you've lost your man, dummy, so skate back hard and pivot as you cross the blue line" mode.

In the video it gets obscured by the Fox-box, but this is McGinn's "Oh ****" moment. Having lost Doughty, and having at no point pivoted into proper defensive position, he's coasted all the way over to the right wing without an idea of who his assignment is supposed to be. The freeze-frame above is the exact instant when he first lays eyes on Gaborik, hits the brakes, and attempts to stick-check him just to slow him down on his clear path to the net.


The line change had nothing to do with any of this. Kopitar and Doughty ran something that looks an awful lot like a set play, taking advantage of the Canes' man-on-man defensive scheme to create a vacuum, and McGinn completely misread the situation -- at least in part because of a lack of rigor in his physical positioning and not having his head on a swivel. This is what we get when we leave a rookie winger as the high man on the forecheck against three All Star caliber opponents.

When I made the comment about players coasting off, I hadn't reviewed the play to any extent so I should have before saying that. I was under the impression that McGinn attempted to skate off the ice, left Gaborik all alone, then realized his mistake too late. Reviewing the video here, I can see why I thought that as it somewhat looks like, even if you're focused on him, that he's skating off into no mans land. Either way he screwed the pooch.

 

[tarheelhockey]

When I made the comment about players coasting off, I hadn't reviewed the play to any extent so I should have before saying that. I was under the impression that McGinn attempted to skate off the ice, left Gaborik all alone, then realized his mistake too late. Reviewing the video here, I can see why I thought that as it somewhat looks like, even if you're focused on him, that he's skating off into no mans land. Either way he screwed the pooch.

Yeah, he definitely did turn toward the bench in a way that could look like he was thinking about a change. It's understandable to interpret his body language that way.

I think the takeaway here is that we had two of our best defensive forwards on the ice against Kopi/DD/Gab, and yet somehow ended up with McGinn as the only forward back. He made a bad individual error, but also the Kings exploited a big strategic opportunity on the team/coach level.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

they played themselves

 

[The Faulker 27]

Yeah, he definitely did turn toward the bench in a way that could look like he was thinking about a change. It's understandable to interpret his body language that way.

I think the takeaway here is that we had two of our best defensive forwards on the ice against Kopi/DD/Gab, and yet somehow ended up with McGinn as the only forward back. He made a bad individual error, but also the Kings exploited a big strategic opportunity on the team/coach level.

It's too bad they didn't get lucky with an offside call there. It definitely wasn't but looked close in the video. That one goal crippled any momentum they had.

 

[tarheelhockey]

they played themselves

And less than a minute later... another one

 

[the halleJOKEL]

you smart. you loyal. you're grateful. i appreciate that. go have yourself a goal. give your whole family goals. go score some goals for no reason.

 

[NotOpie]

#SoulCrushing
#WeAreWhoWeThoughtWeWere

 

[RodTheBawd]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. That play was completely Faulk's fault for not turning a second time to make sure the F didn't blow his assignment. He should have been playing the pass, not the puck carrier. Trade him. Or kill him.

 

[NotOpie]

Nah...it was bad ice...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. That play was completely Faulk's fault for not turning a second time to make sure the F didn't blow his assignment. He should have been playing the pass, not the puck carrier. Trade him. Or kill him.

While there's lots of blame to go around, I have no clue what you are talking about. It was clearly Ryan Murphy's fault. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just a fanboy.

 

[CandyCanes]

While there's lots of blame to go around, I have no clue what you are talking about. It was clearly Ryan Murphy's fault. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just a fanboy.

Wrong definitely Jamie McBain's fault. He was supposed to be the savior for our power play. If he was the savior for our power play we'd not of been 0 for 4 on the power play last night. If we had scored on the power play we win gaem. Therefor this is Jamie McBain's fault.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I still blame Jim Rutherford for everything.

 

[HisIceness]

Francis should start over and attempt to create the 1980s Detroit "Bad Boys" Pistons on ice. Sebastian Aho can be Isiah Thomas. Now we just need to find a Bill Laimbeer, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Rick Mahorn, and Mark Aguirre and we'll be good to go. Teams will finally fear playing us.

 

[Vagrant]

Let me make a few counter points to the graphic illustration.

- Hainsey should not have applied pressure to Kopitar up the ice on that play. His primary job is to be back to cover the reload on that play. He should have turned and skated back towards his goal and tried to deny entry. His pursuit of Kopitar up the ice was a futile attempt to slow the play down so that the Kings would circle back and start a new breakout so that the change could get on. You never allow your high forward, in this case McGinn, to be responsible for a 2 on 2. Even at the best of times, a forward doesn't know how to defend those situations. Faulk immediately recognized it and pointed McGinn over to Gaborik. If you can look at that 3rd frame and tell me Hainsey is where he should have been, I don't know what to say to that. He was forechecking. That's not his primary responsibility. At no point does Kopitar become "his man" on that play. He should have been busting back and he got caught thinking he could close on Kopitar fast enough to prevent an odd man rush. The indirect pass opened up ice for Doughty and that was all she wrote. If Hainsey backs off, Kopitar goes back to McGinn.... that was his real assignment.

- McGinn is not a defenseman. He got walked by Gaborik on that play, and that's not something that should embarrass him. Multiple 40 goal scorers should not be left to be covered by a forward playing out of position. He didn't "lose Doughty", because from the 2nd frame to the 3rd frame you can see that Faulk was back and pointed McGinn away from Doughty to Gaborik, as he should have. The second frame also shows you that McGinn's gap was too tight, because he's not a defenseman and he's not used to defending that play.

- Faulk, knowing that McGinn was covered by Gaborik, should have sealed Doughty off as a player that isn't likely to shoot in that scenario and provided some help for McGinn, who was out of his depth. If you watch the play in real time, you can see that Faulk gives up on the play just a little early. If he had been fully focused, he would have been able to get a stick on the puck when Gaborik cut to the backhand. Ward overplayed his net here as well, exploding out on Gaborik expecting him to shoot. Gaborik calmly goes to the backhand and tucks it in.

 

[Vagrant]

I think the biggest misconception here is that Doughty belonged to McGinn at some point. The second frame really does it. McGinn actually did a really good job diagnosing that play as to not make it a 2 on 1. If he sticks to Doughty, who was already heading towards Faulk's side of the ice, Gaborik walks in alone. At least he was in the right place. It was a pretty heads up play actually, despite getting walked at the end of it.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I think the biggest misconception here is that Doughty belonged to McGinn at some point.

Doughty? He does if he activates himself as a forward on the rush.

If McGinn stays on Doughty, Faulk moves to the right side (his correct side) and plays Gaborik. Instead he loses Drought in the neutral zone and has an awful angle on Gaborik to really do anything other than take a penalty.

I don't see how anyone can watch that and think McGinn played it well. He either takes Doughty or Gaborik. He took neither. If he takes Doughty, that's a puck whipped around the boards, not a 2 on 1.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Let me make a few counter points to the graphic illustration.

- Hainsey should not have applied pressure to Kopitar up the ice on that play. His primary job is to be back to cover the reload on that play. He should have turned and skated back towards his goal and tried to deny entry. His pursuit of Kopitar up the ice was a futile attempt to slow the play down so that the Kings would circle back and start a new breakout so that the change could get on. You never allow your high forward, in this case McGinn, to be responsible for a 2 on 2. Even at the best of times, a forward doesn't know how to defend those situations. Faulk immediately recognized it and pointed McGinn over to Gaborik. If you can look at that 3rd frame and tell me Hainsey is where he should have been, I don't know what to say to that. He was forechecking. That's not his primary responsibility. At no point does Kopitar become "his man" on that play. He should have been busting back and he got caught thinking he could close on Kopitar fast enough to prevent an odd man rush. The indirect pass opened up ice for Doughty and that was all she wrote. If Hainsey backs off, Kopitar goes back to McGinn.... that was his real assignment.

- McGinn is not a defenseman. He got walked by Gaborik on that play, and that's not something that should embarrass him. Multiple 40 goal scorers should not be left to be covered by a forward playing out of position. He didn't "lose Doughty", because from the 2nd frame to the 3rd frame you can see that Faulk was back and pointed McGinn away from Doughty to Gaborik, as he should have. The second frame also shows you that McGinn's gap was too tight, because he's not a defenseman and he's not used to defending that play.

- Faulk, knowing that McGinn was covered by Gaborik, should have sealed Doughty off as a player that isn't likely to shoot in that scenario and provided some help for McGinn, who was out of his depth. If you watch the play in real time, you can see that Faulk gives up on the play just a little early. If he had been fully focused, he would have been able to get a stick on the puck when Gaborik cut to the backhand. Ward overplayed his net here as well, exploding out on Gaborik expecting him to shoot. Gaborik calmly goes to the backhand and tucks it in.

I think the biggest misconception here is that Doughty belonged to McGinn at some point. The second frame really does it. McGinn actually did a really good job diagnosing that play as to not make it a 2 on 1. If he sticks to Doughty, who was already heading towards Faulk's side of the ice, Gaborik walks in alone. At least he was in the right place. It was a pretty heads up play actually, despite getting walked at the end of it.

Vagrant has finally revealed himself as Brock Steve McGinn's father.

 

[Vagrant]

Doughty? He does if he activates himself as a forward on the rush.

If McGinn stays on Doughty, Faulk moves to the right side (his correct side) and plays Gaborik. Instead he loses Drought in the neutral zone and has an awful angle on Gaborik to really do anything other than take a penalty.

I don't see how anyone can watch that and think McGinn played it well. He either takes Doughty or Gaborik. He took neither. If he takes Doughty, that's a puck whipped around the boards, not a 2 on 1.

Doughty made a smart read to know that a forward was trapped on defense and activated himself and essentially took Kopitar's place as a forward while Kopitar was being forechecked by Hainsey. Doughty skated up Faulk's side of the ice and Gaborik went to the vacant left side where he became the high forward's (McGinn) responsibility in the 2 on 2 rush because Hainsey was pushing up the ice and took the F3's role of up ice pressure to slow the attack down or force the Kings to pass the puck back into their zone while Carolina changed. Hainsey was trying to buy some time for the boys to make the long change by applying pressure and vacated his side. McGinn had to become the defenseman on that play and Faulk diagnosed it well and pointed Hainsey over to help McGinn, because it seemed like Hainsey was going to chase Doughty instead of helping on the side of the most immediate threat, which was Gaborik on McGinn.

Just look at it like this, if you see a forward covering a 2 on 2 then one of your defensemen got caught up the ice for whatever reason. Perhaps it was a good offensive pinch and the shot took a bad bounce, but it's still because of his aggression that you put your F3 in position to have to play out of position. Almost always that's going to be true. In this case, what gave McGinn a defensive assignment was the action that took place in the first frame up there of Hainsey applying up ice pressure in a situation where the opposition had the puck, which is counterintuitive to his role as a defenseman. There's no reason that a defenseman should be skating towards his attacking end when the opposition has clean possession. Doing anything else but busting back there was taking a gamble and unfortunately it didn't pay out this time.

I'm not sure how you can't see that McGinn took Gaborik there. He played him badly with too tight of a gap, but he took him. Hell, in the third frame you can see McGinn literally touching him at the offensive blueline. He was trying to hold him up but he turned his head back and Gaborik smoked him. McGinn didn't do a good enough job there either, but it's hard to deny he shouldn't have been in the position to have to defend Marian Gaborik coming down the wing.