We Need Defence!

[seanlinden]

There's a semi-decent list of mid-tier Dmen that will likely make it to free agency this summer - you hope that the Leafs can grab one or two of them without entering a massive bidding war, to help upgrade a blueline that needs massive help.

I know he's pretty popular amongst some folk here, but I'd also look at packaging Liljegren into something that nets you back a decent hard nosed Dman with a bit of term. I've been done with the Liljegren experiment for a while now, and hope they're able to leverage his first round pedigree, age, and cost-controlled nature into something tangible.

To be fair... that may not be the world's best idea.

Let's say you somehow manage to get the 1 perfect guy for this team in Brett Pesce. He probably slots in alongside Jake McCabe; leaving you to need to resign Lyubushkin, and with a 3rd pair of Benoit & Liljegren.

That leaves you with a blueline that, on a night-to-night basis, has Lybushkin & Benoit who handle the puck like a grenade, McCabe & Pesce who make a decent first pass, but nothing too creative offensively. Based on having those 4 guys in the lineup, it would seem to me that you'd want the remaining 2 to be guys that move the puck very well like Rielly & Liljegren do. Rielly to play with Lyubushkin, and Liljegren to play with Benoit.

 

[TMLife17]

It’s Tanev and Zadorov. Trade for Markstrom with some retention and we’re a legit contender.

Rielly - Tanev
Zadorov - McCabe
Benoit - Lilly :/

Markstrom/Woll

I’d still look for a 1for1 for Lilly. He has almost no redeeming qualities left in his game when playoffs roll around.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Toronto needs a 1RD to be a permanent, minute eating partner for Rielly. Beyond that they either need an upgrade a 2LD OR an upgrade at 3RD so that McCabe can slot into the 2LD slot.

IMO, the team is 2 defensemen away from having a top 10 d-core, but that 1RD has to be a significant acquisition and a player in his prime.

They also need an upgrade in net, because it doesn't matter how much money (within reason) that they spend on the d-core, if the goalie is still letting in 1-2 softies every night.

 

[trellaine201]

Leafs built the wrong way! You need to build from the net out!

 

[Frostitute]

It’s Tanev and Zadorov. Trade for Markstrom with some retention and we’re a legit contender.

Rielly - Tanev
Zadorov - McCabe
Benoit - Lilly :/

Markstrom/Woll

I’d still look for a 1for1 for Lilly. He has almost no redeeming qualities left in his game when playoffs roll around.

Tanev is 34 and is a world class shot blocker. Honestly not sure why so many want this guy. 5 years ago I would have LOVED it but the wheels are going to fall off quick, fast and in a hurry IMO.

Pesce is a perfect fit IMO.

Markstrom has had one good season in his last four. Again, 34yrs old. Too little too late.

I'd give my left nut for Saros though. Or, ya know, Marner.

 

[Gabriel426]

Tanev is 34 and is a world class shot blocker. Honestly not sure why so many want this guy. 5 years ago I would have LOVED it but the wheels are going to fall off quick, fast and in a hurry IMO.

Pesce is a perfect fit IMO.

Markstrom has had one good season in his last four. Again, 34yrs old. Too little too late.

I'd give my left nut for Saros though. Or, ya know, Marner.

Marner for Saros plus picks-prefer Tampa picks just to spike Tampa, from the Jeannot deal, once all those picks become great players.
Sign Z in the off season
JT for Parayko straight up
Then sign Lindholm and Toffoli
Resign Dewar, Boosh, Domi, and Bert.
Would still need to trade Calle away for picks.

Bert-AM-Domi
Knies-Lindholm-Willie
McMann-Holmberg-Toffoli
Dewar/Robbie-Kampf-Reaves

Reilly-Parayko
Zadorov-McCabe
Beniot-Boosh/Lilly

Saros/Woll

 

[TMLife17]

Tanev is 34 and is a world class shot blocker. Honestly not sure why so many want this guy. 5 years ago I would have LOVED it but the wheels are going to fall off quick, fast and in a hurry IMO.

Pesce is a perfect fit IMO.

Markstrom has had one good season in his last four. Again, 34yrs old. Too little too late.

I'd give my left nut for Saros though. Or, ya know, Marner.

I’d rather give Tanev a 3 year deal than commit 7 to Pesce that’s why. And I watch almost every flames game and can tell you for certain Markstrom is still a great goalie. He’s well well beyond anything we have iced since Freddy. He’s the only reason the flames were in the hunt until the last couple of weeks and aren’t picking top 4 this draft

 

[Frostitute]

I’d rather give Tanev a 3 year deal than commit 7 to Pesce that’s why. And I watch almost every flames game and can tell you for certain Markstrom is still a great goalie. He’s well well beyond anything we have iced since Freddy. He’s the only reason the flames were in the hunt until the last couple of weeks and aren’t picking top 4 this draft

So you'd rather 3 years of Tanev, with the last 1 (maybe 2) possibly looking real bad instead of 7years of Pesce who is 5 years younger? Dont get me wrong, tanev is fantasic but how many dmen with that kinda mileage look good at 35? 36? 37?

Im sick of ALWAYS needing that high end guy. Can we just get one who is arguably in his prime (or darn close) and be done with it instead of looking again in a year or two? Pesce over Tanev ev-ery-day.

 

[Frostitute]

Markstrom getting shelled the last few years on a iffy Flames squad as he approached his mid-thirties doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his longevity for me either. Again, talented but 34. Saros is 29. In his prime. Im not looking for another Freddy. I want another Eddie.

 

[Puckstuff]

Brett Pesce, Matt Roy and Edmundson would be ideal.

Edmundson 6'5 - 220
Benoit - 6'4 - 210
Pesce - 6'3 - 210
Roy - 6'2 - 210
McCabe - 6'1 - 215
Rielly - 6'1 - 215

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Tanev is 34 and is a world class shot blocker. Honestly not sure why so many want this guy. 5 years ago I would have LOVED it but the wheels are going to fall off quick, fast and in a hurry IMO.

Pesce is a perfect fit IMO.

Markstrom has had one good season in his last four. Again, 34yrs old. Too little too late.

I'd give my left nut for Saros though. Or, ya know, Marner.

Isn't Trona on Pesce's no want to go list

 

[colchar]

How many years have fans been saying this exact same thing.

Since Kaberle left at least. This team, which fancies itself a contender, keeps trotting out a roster with the likes of Morgan Rielly as their best defenseman. After that it's a steeeeeep drop off.

Some fans were even celebrating the trades for Lyubushkin and Edmundson.

Those guys are useless turds. Add Benoit into the mix and three out of six defensemen are number sixes. You can always find room for a guy like that on the team.

So long as there's only one of them.

Any more is getting into a hoarding situation. Cornering the market on cruddy hulking defensemen is something they can do AFTER they get someone good. It's pretty much a given that a Norris caliber defenseman is a requirement to win the cup.

The Leafs have never had anyone like that on the team.

 

[TMLife17]

Markstrom getting shelled the last few years on an iffy Flames squad as he approached his mid-thirties doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his longevity for me either. Again, talented but 34. Saros is 29. In his prime. Im not looking for another Freddy. I want another Eddie.

Sorry but you’re just wrong about what Markstrom is. He has not been shelled, he is the reason the Flames aren’t a lottery team. No other reason actually. He might not have a lot of time left but he would be a cheap(er) get and provide what we need for at least 2 more years. Who are you trading for Saros because I bet we could get Marky retained for a late first at the absolute most.

And ya I am not keen on committing 7 years to Pesce taking him to the same age Tanev would be after a 3 year deal. Which you said yourself is questionable.

 

[horner]

We aren't winning the cup next years si giving up assets for a goaltender is a non starter for me.
Finally build a defense
We desperately need a pp quarterback with a great point shot

Trade
Jamcrock
Kampf
Marner retain 2 mil
Morgan Rielly retain 1.5 mil it's time for a change
Ljiligren

Montour 7 yrs @ 7 mil has a big shot pp quarter back great skater and tough as nails
Roy 5 mil
Zadorov 6 yrs @ 5 mil big shot from the point mean great skater
Desharnais 2 yrs 1.5 mil

Monahan 3 yrs 4.5
Domi 3 yrs @ 4.5 mil
Bertuzzi 4 yrs @ 5 mil
Stolarz 2 trs @ 2 mil ..,

 

[Dragao6]

So you'd rather 3 years of Tanev, with the last 1 (maybe 2) possibly looking real bad instead of 7years of Pesce who is 5 years younger? Dont get me wrong, tanev is fantasic but how many dmen with that kinda mileage look good at 35? 36? 37?

Im sick of ALWAYS needing that high end guy. Can we just get one who is arguably in his prime (or darn close) and be done with it instead of looking again in a year or two? Pesce over Tanev ev-ery-day.

Wasn’t an issue with tanev that he was always injured some seasons ago?

How much mileage does he actually have?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Since Kaberle left at least. This team, which fancies itself a contender, keeps trotting out a roster with the likes of Morgan Rielly as their best defenseman. After that it's a steeeeeep drop off.

No money available for better D.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We desperately need a pp quarterback with a great point shot

Rielly’s game of transition offense isn’t there in the post season.

His lack of D skills cost us the series as Pastrnak schooled him. Yes, Samsonov misplayed the dump in as well.

 

[thusk]

It’s Tanev and Zadorov. Trade for Markstrom with some retention and we’re a legit contender.

Rielly - Tanev
Zadorov - McCabe
Benoit - Lilly :/

Markstrom/Woll

I’d still look for a 1for1 for Lilly. He has almost no redeeming qualities left in his game when playoffs roll around.

for me not sure how much better this D should be vs last playoff years, they stick with the same exact problem.

Toronto need a dman who can play 200 feet of the ice, not an other 2 unidimentionnal dman

 

[Nineteen67]

You only sign 35+ yo if you’re close and you’re looking to fill out the roster. They shouldn’t sign any 35+ until they have main pieces in place.

Lots to fix and I don’t know if they’ll even be able to salvage the Matthews era.

 

[TMLife17]

for me not sure how much better this D should be vs last playoff years, they stick with the same exact problem.

Toronto need a dman who can play 200 feet of the ice, not an other 2 unidimentionnal dman

Zadorov has 4 goals in 8 games this playoffs. He doesn't usually translate on his offence like this, but he is far from a defensive defenceman. He has a good pass, skating, and joins the rush very regularly.

 

[ToneDog]

Zadorov has 4 goals in 8 games this playoffs. He doesn't usually translate on his offence like this, but he is far from a defensive defenceman. He has a good pass, skating, and joins the rush very regularly.

Zadorov and/or Tanev probably help us beat the Bruins. Would have cost our first which is risky given the path to the SCF went through Miami and NYC.

Losing to the Bruins opened a few stubborn eyes at MLSEL. Hopefully it is what this team needed to take the next step.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don’t care if there’s a similar thread already - this point needs to be discussed individually.

We have 3 signed dmen worth their salt. Rielly, McCabe, Benoit. Where they slot is debatable. We need another 3 or 4 solid dmen if we want to have a shot at the cup (I understand goaltending is an issue). Bargain binning half the d-core just isn’t it anymore.

I liked both Boosh and Ed and it would be cool to see them return - but look at what Zadorov is doing for Van right now. There’s familiarity with Tre there and Zadorov expressed interest in Toronto during the season. We need this guy. Even in a bottom pairing role I would pay 5mil without question. He’s big, tough, solid first pass and decent offensively for his skill set.

I was probably one of the biggest Muzzin fanboys out there - us not replacing him when he went down was criminal. He was easily our best dman IMO; and was probably the most impactful, non-replaced, player this team has lost since Sundin. All situation, tough, good first pass, true leader, experienced cup winner, Muzz had it all.

We’ve got all these developing forwards (Robertson, Knies, Mcmann, Minten, Cowan, Tverberg, Greybyonkin) we need to play these guys to get the cap savings to pay the D and G. Enough of the forward signings (pls bring Domi back). Invest in some Dmen!

Now that I’ve got the word vomit out of the way - who would you like to see added to our D core? Does Cade Webber get a shot? Do we bring back Boosh/Eddy? Do we sign Zadorov? What are your thoughts leaf nation?

This is exactly correct .. playoff hockey is won and lost with D and G .. we need to beef up our D with speed, size and strength for a playoff war .. Rielly is a D like Mitch .. a rover style player who is very weak defensively .. and he really does not bring enough to our offence aka PP with his terribly weak shot (again like Mitch) .. to me we gotta get rid of both these guys as they won't fall into a traditional style Q or Berube type game .. this is a poor roster construction job right from da draft onwards .. da quicker we move on from these 2 da better off we are gonna be as a TEAM

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Zadorov has 4 goals in 8 games this playoffs. He doesn't usually translate on his offence like this, but he is far from a defensive defenceman. He has a good pass, skating, and joins the rush very regularly.

There is a ton of value in a BIG FAST D who makes it nasty to get to your net in playoff hockey .. he has wiped out a few guys in da playoffs and that opens up ice for him as other players do not want to mess with him .. gives him an easier path to other teams net too .. we need to build a D core here which other teams do not like .. i think Tanev may be a bit too old to do it in future .. Z is in his prime now

 

[seanlinden]

So you'd rather 3 years of Tanev, with the last 1 (maybe 2) possibly looking real bad instead of 7years of Pesce who is 5 years younger? Dont get me wrong, tanev is fantasic but how many dmen with that kinda mileage look good at 35? 36? 37?

Im sick of ALWAYS needing that high end guy. Can we just get one who is arguably in his prime (or darn close) and be done with it instead of looking again in a year or two? Pesce over Tanev ev-ery-day.

This. Pesce will likely give you 3-5 years of quality play, before his contract becomes a problem.

Tanev at this point, I'm expecting an immediate decline.

To me, they're almost separate needs. The Leafs need a partner for Rielly, AND need a guy to "star" a 2nd pair alongside McCabe. Pesce could be that ideal 2nd pair anchor. Tanev I look at more in the context of him vs. Lyubushkin.

That being said, my sense of the situation is that Pesce would not be willing to sign in Toronto, and Tanev may not just be willign to, but embrace signing here at a reasonable price.

 

[Roo]

We need a top goalie. I really believe that is where we need to focus most. D too, but figuring out who will replace Samsonov is priority #1 imo. It’s our biggest opportunity to improve.