Post-Game Talk: We lose

[TheBloodyNine]

Uh dog we are 4-2-1.... You gonna have the same energy 50 games thru the year and we are 26-13-4? Or you gonna realize that even Stanley Cup winning teams aren't lights out every single night

Were they "lights out" in any of those 4 wins, who were to bad to middling teams?

 

[DialUp]

Fair enough. My thinking is that we haven't played even close to our potential and we are still 4-2-1. I fully expect this team to make the playoffs

That's right we haven't, absolutely. I think it's coming next year rather than this. But that's why I watch, to get surprised!

 

[Chimpradamus]

A few things:

1. Even if individual players can, should and will be called out -- offensively we have bigger issues than Panarin and Ziba not firing on all cylinders. In fact, our lack of offense is mainly not referable to them.

2. Fundamentally, what creating offense in the NHL is about is not rocket science. You must be able to create havoc in the offensive zone. From time to time, there are numbers about like how X% of the goals in hockey are scored within 3 seconds of a giveaway and so forth. What like 98% of the 5 on 5 goals in hockey have in common is that they are created after some kind of havoc is created forcing a mistake defensively. Besides a clean FO win and a direct slapper, its extremely uncommon that a goal is scored against a calm and collected D that is in control of the situation.

3. Goals have gone down at a steady pace for long stints of the modern history of the NHL, unless the game has been disrupted by rule changes or large expansions opening things up. But the last years we have seen goals per game increase instead. The reason for that is very obvious, coaches and teams felt the scale tilting and it made it worth it for teams to take risks. And this is one of the key points with this post. Because there are no obvious way to create offense, i.e. creating havoc in the attacking zone and offensively, that aren't explored by all teams -- that does not include an element of taking risks.

How does these risks display themselves? A few examples
* Pre I don't know, 2015?, if one defender had jointed the attacking and the other defender jumped into the attack too, it was jaw-dropping, it was 'you are running home behind the buss', it was simply unthinkable and a complete no-go. The following 5 years it has to different degrees with different teams becomes a regular event.

* Pre 05' you didn't stickhandle on the offensive blueline, its a horrible place to lose the puck. Gradually for a good 10 years that rule of thumb has been removed more or less, and in addition, players being great at stickhandling in those areas have seen their roles increase. If someone beats their guy, criss-cross inside the blueline, backhand drop passes, the defending team can lose their coverage and it creates havoc.

* Pre 05', all systems were designed to cut down on giveaways around your own defensive blueline (between the redline and the defensive blueline). In fact, the trap was designed to create turnovers in these areas. Give the puck away, let the other team come at you, then you have 3 guys at the redline and 1 guy steering the attacking team towards either side of the ice, and you shut the trap when they come up over the defensive blueline. This is the "trap" in all essence:
View attachment 474189

Torts claimed to be in favor of safe-is-death hockey, but it was a truth with modification. In relation to Renney he let the players lose more on the forecheck and he let defenders join the rush more -- but he was and is super conservative in the transition game. Remember Girardi just throwing pucks up the ice all the time? That is how you beat the trap. If you just flip the puck high up ice and put pressure on the other team, you won't make any turnovers. All the pre-05' top coaches, Torts, Hartley and Crawford especially, kept this accept of their game -- i.e. take no risks in the transition game -- and it killed them in the post 05' NHL.

Coaches that lets their defenders move the puck up ice, try low percentage passes that can open things up, can open things up, but it comes at a risk. This have changed a lot the last decade.

* One of the bigger changes lately, that still is ongoing, is that attackers have -- genuinely -- started to challenge defenders 1 on 1. I think this especially is what has increased scoring the most just the last handful of years. Nobody should beat a defender in a good position, that isn't on his heels or whatever, clean with a 1 on 1 move. As a result, many one on one challenges have for a long time just been about pressuring the defender back a bit, and the guy with the puck often circles back looking for a trailer or use the open ice to snap a shot between the legs of the defender. What these new offensively gifted players does is just that. I mean lets say that a forward fearlessly tries to split two defender and gets sandwhiched -- what could create more havoc? Bodies are flying, if you hit someone with the puck it can go flying in any direction. When a line knows that they will challenge a defender 1 on 1, they provide more support, are prepared to go looking for that puck that will end up in some random spot. Its seen all the time when like the Swedish U20 team plays, Raymond and co. but also look at the perfection line. How often doesn't they score a goal after either Pasternak or Marchand have engaged with a D, perhaps been taken out of the way, but 2 of the others get a hold of the puck, the defense is scrambling, and they just make a simple pass to someone infront of the net for a one-timer.

That puck that goes flying, that is also a risk not only an opportunity.

4. Under Gallant we play in straighter lines, we are simply more predictable. It helps the team confidence because we are less volatile as a team, more in control, but we are also more easy to control. Its hear that it takes "fingerspitzengefühl" from Gallant. We need to find ways to create more havoc offensively and be less predictable, while also not losing the stability we have gained as a team. I keep referring to this, but Tampa won 3 elimination games in the POs last season 2-0, 1-0 and 1-0. And some games 8-0. It cannot be all offense or all defense. You must be capable of both. My biggest objection against DQ was that he was all over the place, and went from one extreme to the other. Neither suits this team. But -- there are a ton of room for improvement for us. If you ask Tampa what they learned the most and what put them over the top, they will 100% say that it was their decision making. Deciding as a team, getting it into their DNA, to make the right call on when to take a risk and when to not take a risk. That is one thing we must work on, but also simple execution.

I think all this is on the agenda for sure. I would expect improvements over the year.

I just have to raise my glass to you, Ola. In the old days like 1½ decade ago you weren't as sharp as now (still a talent for analytics) and your English was rusty, but you had a passion and you still had things to bring to the table.

You kept on going from your passion and here you are. A splendid post from you. I love it. Analytical, observational, bringing the perspective of time to such extent... Great work. How can you not think this information doesn't deserve a discussion on its own? Var är trådstarten Ola?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

That's it.

I'm calling out of work tomorrow.

Taking a "maintenance" day of my own.

 

[bigdog16]

Were they "lights out" in any of those 4 wins, who were to bad to middling teams?

Talk to me after 82 games and let me know if Toronto, Nashville, and Montreal are all bad teams.

 

[JHS]

I was defending him against the charge of being responsible for two goals.

He's good at getting the puck in the zone. I believe he ranked highly among forwards (league-wide) in scoring/60 at 5 on 5 last year. I don't see him as a problem & want to see more of what he can do.

Ok fair- I've watched enough of him to see that he's always going to be prone to trying a high risk play rather than a simple play, is not skilled enough to be a top 6 player but too good to be a bottom 6 grinder type and will always be a miss match for his linemates forever. I'd rather part ways with him now before his value goes to 0.

 

[Chytilmania]

Well Drury definitely made bad moves, but we still have the same star players from last year who were elite, and Gallant has proven he's a quality coach in the past.

Maybe the players all took the summer off because they look like the Monstars stole all their skills.

A lot of players, including Fox, took extended time off. Lots of golf trips for them as well.

 

[will1066]

They simply can't take the unstructured pond hockey approach to offense. It's not sustainable. That shit ran its course before the pandemic.

 

[duhmetreE]

Truly amazing how much we turned the puck over yesterday. Panic set in.

Give Calgary credit, they were hustling and taking away all of our space and time. Our puck movement and support was embarrassing. Zibs looked like he didn't want to be there... his mind was somewhere else. Chytil looked rough in his own zone. Our 3rd pair was a disaster. Our PP is still a disaster. The only 2 lines that weren't complete crap were Strome and Rooney.

Getting pinned deep consistently. Flubbing and turning it over consistency.

I thought Lundkvist was a PMD? wtf happened? I thought he was the best defensive prospect in hockey. wtf happened? I guess the same thing as 'NHL ready' with Kakko and Laf.

#WE NEVER WIN GOOD LOTTERYs. We have not 'hit' on a single forward (so far) from the 1st round in recent history. Mind blowing. I'm glad we spent resources to add depth to the hardest position to fill, center....

@Uninstaaled called it.. The massive let down game. Their minds were not in the game. Calgary was good, but we played like beer leaguers. At least Panarin was trying.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

I mean we have people in this thread wondering how we are going to get out of Panarin's contract after 7 games. It's laughable stuff.

You’d be hard pressed to find a player more consistent than Panarin since he’s been in the league. Even now, during this “slump”, he’s yet to go two games in a row without a point, and 4pts in 7 games isn’t even that bad. How long did it take Zib to get his first four points last season? (I looked it up, SIXTEEN GAMES) And how did he look in the second half? Red hot. And Panarin is better than him.

The multipoint games will start coming soon and before you know it Bread will be back on a 90pt+ pace again and this slump will be forgotten.

 

[tomobson]

What are the chances we'll see Kakko on pp1 right hand wall?

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Truly amazing how much we turned the puck over yesterday. Panic set in.

Give Calgary credit, they were hustling and taking away all of our space and time. Our puck movement and support was embarrassing. Zibs looked like he didn't want to be there... his mind was somewhere else. Chytil looked rough in his own zone. Our 3rd pair was a disaster. Our PP is still a disaster. The only 2 lines that weren't complete crap were Strome and Rooney.

Getting pinned deep consistently. Flubbing and turning it over consistency.

I thought Lundkvist was a PMD? wtf happened? I thought he was the best defensive prospect in hockey. wtf happened? I guess the same thing as 'NHL ready' with Kakko and Laf.

#WE NEVER WIN GOOD LOTTERYs. We have not 'hit' on a single forward (so far) from the 1st round in recent history. Mind blowing. I'm glad we spent resources to add depth to the hardest position to fill, center....

@Uninstaaled called it.. The massive let down game. Their minds were not in the game. Calgary was good, but we played like beer leaguers. At least Panarin was trying.

He hit on JT Miller pretty good lmao. Stoked we traded him in the greatest trade in NYR history.

 

[bobbop]

Question for anyone who was at the rink last night...what do you estimate attendance was?

 

[Larrybiv]

First game where I've noticed Goodrow repeatedly.

If youre looking AT Goodrow to be something special, then maybe youre looking at the wrong scapegoat. Hes a good player being a part of a good team with others carrying the weight. Yes, he could be better, but I digress.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Question for anyone who was at the rink last night...what do you estimate attendance was?

I think the reported 13,590 was accurate.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Talk to me after 82 games and let me know if Toronto, Nashville, and Montreal are all bad teams.

I can talk to you about them now, which is relevant to how they were playing when we played them.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Calgary is manhandling the Devils so it makes me feel slightly better about last night.

Freakin Mangiapane 7 Goals

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Calgary is manhandling the Devils so it makes me feel slightly better about last night.

Freakin Mangiapane 7 Goals

He’s the real bread man. Better than Panarin

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

No offense, but Panarin has looked like he's playing the same old system of lateral stretch passes, and maybe that's the problem. Also, again, not directed at you, but 10 games as some people have urged for now becomes 15-20 for them to gel.

Yeah, Panarin is definitely not only playing the same E/W style, but he's forcing it when it's not there and making poor decisions which is very uncharacteristic of him. We don't want to stifle the creativity out of him, but he's gotta get back to making the right decisions. When the seams open up and that E/W play is there you take it, but you can't force those lateral plays when it's not there. That just leads to the excessive amount of giveaways we saw the other night.

As for the games for them to gel number, it's mostly arbitrary whether it be 10-15-20 or whatever so I'm with you, we don't want to be sitting here in February being like "well it's a new coach so they're still getting used to it" because at a certain point the players need to make themselves gel and hit their stride. I guess I look to Thanksgiving and Christmas as two markers for the season starting to show us who these teams actually are.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Team with injuries and learning a new system plays a bad home game after a long trip where they went 4-0 at maybe 50% efficiency. Add the weather being crappy the last three days. HFBoards gets grumpy. News at 11.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Team with injuries and learning a new system plays a bad home game after a long trip where they went 4-0 at maybe 50% efficiency. Add the weather being crappy the last three days. HFBoards gets grumpy. News at 11.

Doesn’t Gallant say the system is pretty much the same though?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Doesn’t Gallant say the system is pretty much the same though?

It's probably coach speak. Not many coaches share what their actual system is, just cliches.

 

[fm]

Question for anyone who was at the rink last night...what do you estimate attendance was?

10-11K IMO

 

[McRanger92]

Question for anyone who was at the rink last night...what do you estimate attendance was?

3/4 full. The crowd was very into it thought. The place erupted after Rooney's goal and talking to a few people in the concourse after the game, they mentioned that the crowd was the best they've seen in an early season game in a long time. I concur.

 

[McRanger92]

Doesn’t Gallant say the system is pretty much the same though?

They didnt play within whatever system Quinn was running last year either tbh. After every game he was whining about the East/West play.

The Rangers big problem right now is the skill players reluctance to keep it simple offensively. Too often they are making wish passes to no one (Panarin/Zibanejad), carrying the puck too long and losing it (Laf/Chytil) and straight up refusing to shoot the puck (Fox/Panarin). They are so predictable offensively right now, but what has worked? When they get pucks to the net decisively and create havoc.

There are other legit reasons they stunk (red-hot Flames team, 7 games in 12 days in 5 cities, etc.), but all Gallant needs to do is show them the tape from this game and say "This is what happens when we try to play pond hockey in the offensive zone."