We Have A Gm Problem

[Callidusblackhawk]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Absolutely it is. Everyone would rather watch a team that has a chance to win the cup every year. But I found this more frustrating honestly:

5 playoff games in 5 years and the only reason we even got those was because of Covid. A lot of us on this board gaslit ourselves into thinking a retool around early 30s Kane and Toews would work but that hinged on Bowman picking a 1C with that 3rd overall pick he lucked into and that shit just didn't happen.

 

[TheFridge]

Absolutely it is. Everyone would rather watch a team that has a chance to win the cup every year. But I found this more frustrating honestly:

View attachment 1053262

5 playoff games in 5 years and the only reason we even got those was because of Covid. A lot of us on this board gaslit ourselves into thinking a retool around early 30s Kane and Toews would work but that hinged on Bowman picking a 1C with that 3rd overall pick he lucked into and that shit just didn't happen.

The Hawks could have retooled around Toews and Kane -- with or without Dach succeeding -- but Bowman made way, way too many blunders. Trading Hammer for Murphy set them back. Trading Panarin for Saad set them back. Trading a kings ransom for Jones and then signing him to a super inflated contract set them back. He made so many bad moves after 2015 and they all compounded.

But now we're in reality. And the reality is, this rebuild needed to happen because of all the shit Bowman did from 2016-2022 to set them back.

 

[ColbyChaos]

The Hawks could have retooled around Toews and Kane -- with or without Dach succeeding -- but Bowman made way, way too many blunders. Trading Hammer for Murphy set them back. Trading Panarin for Saad set them back. Trading a kings ransom for Jones and then signing him to a super inflated contract set them back. He made so many bad moves after 2015 and they all compounded.

But now we're in reality. And the reality is, this rebuild needed to happen because of all the shit Bowman did from 2016-2022 to set them back.

He basically turned Panarin into a 3rd round pick which is absolutely wild.

Panarin >Saad > Zadorov > 3rd round pick (2022)

 

[Toews2Bickell]

He basically turned Panarin into a 3rd round pick which is absolutely wild.

Panarin >Saad > Zadorov > 3rd round pick (2022)

so many shit show offseasons with Bowman toward the end...when he was going to trade for Matt Murray, declared a rebuild in a letter to fans then ended it a year later, losing every trade basically

 

[x Tame Impala]

Forgot we had Zadorov tbh

 

[Toews2Bickell]

let Crawford leave for NJ after the covid playoffs, for no reason, then struck out on all his alternatives and went with Subban and whoever in net lol...then spent 5m on a backup the year after

 

[ColbyChaos]

so many shit show offseasons with Bowman toward the end...when he was going to trade for Matt Murray, declared a rebuild in a letter to fans then ended it a year later, losing every trade basically

And somehow a lot of people miss that era

 

[ColbyChaos]

Forgot we had Zadorov tbh

I still remember him for absolutely destroying Hornqvist

 

[x Tame Impala]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Who wants to spend hours of your mortal life watching a team designed to lose.

And for those who say it's the ONLY way to win a cup, that's nonsense. You practice your faith like a zealot.

There's no ONE way to do anything.

Maybe. Just maybe, you could have people who are really good at their job?

A good eye for talent. A collection of fantastic coaches to develop successful players?

Ya know, dont Mt Vesuvius your hockey team bc it's easier to build a winner when you pick in the top 3 for a decade (Why do you think the NHL has a lottery; it just isn't effective at disuading tanking.).

I get why they did it, but how do you not get how that's a giant waste of years and kind of sad?

Calling a spade a spade would be saying anyone complaining about the rebuild is out of touch with hockey reality. There’s really not any other way other than Vegas the circumstances that led to their success will never happen again.

Boo hoo your team isn’t good. You got 7 phenomenal years from them. Go watch the Cup DVD’s if you’re so upset. Patience and luck is the only way through, rushing a rebuild because you’re tired of losing is asinine.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Some people seriously would prefer being mediocre forever and relying on a .1% chance of winning a title (Aka the Calgary Model) rather than deal with a few years of being at the bottom to build a new core to try and contend.

Its also amazing this thread is 60 pages yet we here we are again having the exact same conversation again all due to the same 3 posters who have a memory of a goldfish.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Some people seriously would prefer being mediocre forever and relying on a .1% chance of winning a title (Aka the Calgary Model) rather than deal with a few years of being at the bottom to build a new core to try and contend.

Its also amazing this thread is 60 pages yet we here we are again having the exact same conversation again all due to the same 3 posters who have a memory of a goldfish.

The illusion of contention

 

[ClydeLee]

Gm is making moves for more of a offensive supportive winger and room in the bottom 6 for young guys.

I dont know of anyone that says hard rebuilds and tanking are the only way to win like some have claimed. It's just a path that leads more to acquiring the talent. The building a solid defensive team that stays competitive and doesnt have multiple top 5 picks as stars, wins a little under once a decade. You can win that way, it's just as lucky as good lottery luck. Its also not something Chicago could of done with what their depth was at after Stan's retools

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You control your own destiny a bit more when you tank whereas when you rely on trades and free agency to acquire top end talent you're competing in an auction market and almost always have to pay top price for the asset, and the counter party also has to agree to the terms of the deal which is another unpredictable thing

 

[slappipappi]

let Crawford leave for NJ after the covid playoffs, for no reason, then struck out on all his alternatives and went with Subban and whoever in net lol...then spent 5m on a backup the year after

Corey Crawford never played a minute for NJ? He retired for concussion reasons.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

Corey Crawford never played a minute for NJ? He retired for concussion reasons.

He signed a 2 year contract with NJ, but I didn't realize he never played a single game on that deal. For some reason my memory had him playing at least a few games before retiring.

 

[ClydeLee]

Corey Crawford never played a minute for NJ? He retired for concussion reasons.

It was more than just that, he decided to retire and not go through the season when he found out they were having a season without fans. He also was a guy who had Covid before the Bubble playoffs. He might have had impacts from that.

I just recently watched the Vegas Blackhawks games, Crawford was still amazing. The game the Hawks won, Crawford made tons of bignsaves and then again in the final game that they lost.

But talk about GM problems, Crawford still had the ability. Then trying to retool and develop D like Boqvist and Mitchell at the NHL level with Subban and Delia was a GM problem. They should have still had Crawford

 

[Northernhawk]

Hjalmarsson into Murphy was pretty much the way Hjalmarsson was going to go anyways…Hawks got more out of Murphy then Arizona did with Hjalmarsson

Panarin cost Columbus, they got nothing for him AND Bobrovsky when they left

Forsling was traded for deHaan(acquired for Clendening) and Carolina lost Forsling off waivers to Florida…Carolina lost not Chicago

Can’t call EVERY PLAYER the Hawks moved losses…

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Corey Crawford never played a minute for NJ? He retired for concussion reasons.

Would guess that if Chicago retained him he would've played that season, he was very good in the bubble...Think he got to NJ and realized he had no desire to play out the contract on a new team with no fans and terminated the deal before it started...Bowman was playing musical chairs in the goalie trade market and got left without a seat and went with 3 AHL goalies which prompted the fake rebuild letter...

 

[CallMeShaft]

I feel we moved on from Crow at a good time. I don't think his health would've lasted another season, and am glad that he got out of hockey before suffering another concussion.

 

[BHFAN92]

I feel we moved on from Crow at a good time. I don't think his health would've lasted another season, and am glad that he got out of hockey before suffering another concussioiN.

I run into Corey Crawford all the time. He has a kid who plays youth hockey

 

[TheFridge]

Hjalmarsson into Murphy was pretty much the way Hjalmarsson was going to go anyways…Hawks got more out of Murphy then Arizona did with Hjalmarsson

Panarin cost Columbus, they got nothing for him AND Bobrovsky when they left

Forsling was traded for deHaan(acquired for Clendening) and Carolina lost Forsling off waivers to Florida…Carolina lost not Chicago

Can’t call EVERY PLAYER the Hawks moved losses…

I mean, the Hawks got "more" out of Murphy if you only measure "more" by the amount of games played. Of course, Hjalmarsson maintained an elite level of player throughout his time in AZ and Murphy continued to drown in possession like he did in AZ in CHI.

If you were going to move on from Hammer (who still had *2 years* left on his deal), you don't give him away for spare parts and that's exactly what Bowman did. He took the best defensive D of his generation, on a bargain contract and turned him into a guy who played games for us but never played those games very well. Cool.

Panarin got CBJ a bunch of playoff games. No chance they regret that deal. Again, the Hawks traded an elite 1st line wing for a middle-six forward.

 

[MHO]

Are we talking about Stan Bowman now?

 

[hockeydoug]

Is it possible that fans could be in favor rebuild without basing it almost entirely on accumulated draft picks?

lots of arguments ghosts.

What’s with comps to other sports anyway? They’re generally bad comps. But since they keep coming up, Reinsdorf has had massive success and massive failure with both philosophies with his baseball pet.

I don’t even like comps to the pre- 2012 CBA for the the NHLer but I think it’s important to note that Tallon/mcd took massive swings in 2005-2008 and (eventually landed Khabibulin), Havlat was a major trade and extension, huet and Campbell were massive buys. The whole time after the lockout the message was about winning even when they had no chance to contend.

You can make major moves letting the league know you want to win and still undercut your coach to tank like Tallon did to Yawney to get some of the high% shots at really good pieces. Here, KD let LR nearly botch the tank for Bedard. Ffs!

Right now all the Hawks do is lose and tell everyone they plan to keep losing indefinitely. They do it while dealing with franchise culture and lawsuits of their own making. Unless a player really wants the city, I think it’s fair to argue no agent of a top player is pointing to Chicago for the next few years unless it’s for terrible contract, even if the roster shows signs of turning the corner.

There’s plenty to criticize without being impatient or being against a rebuild. And being in favor of a big contract or two to add talent does not mean committing to picking 14th indefinitely.

 

[Hawkaholic]

There’s plenty to criticize without being impatient or being against a rebuild. And being in favor of a big contract or two to add talent does not mean committing to picking 14th indefinitely.

So you want to sign Marner, and think we'll still pick top 5ish? So whats the point of signing Marner, then?

 

[Crow]

Is it possible that fans could be in favor rebuild without basing it almost entirely on accumulated draft picks?

lots of arguments ghosts.

What’s with comps to other sports anyway? They’re generally bad comps. But since they keep coming up, Reinsdorf has had massive success and massive failure with both philosophies with his baseball pet.

I don’t even like comps to the pre- 2012 CBA for the the NHLer but I think it’s important to note that Tallon/mcd took massive swings in 2005-2008 and (eventually landed Khabibulin), Havlat was a major trade and extension, huet and Campbell were massive buys. The whole time after the lockout the message was about winning even when they had no chance to contend.

You can make major moves letting the league know you want to win and still undercut your coach to tank like Tallon did to Yawney to get some of the high% shots at really good pieces. Here, KD let LR nearly botch the tank for Bedard. Ffs!

Right now all the Hawks do is lose and tell everyone they plan to keep losing indefinitely. They do it while dealing with franchise culture and lawsuits of their own making. Unless a player really wants the city, I think it’s fair to argue no agent of a top player is pointing to Chicago for the next few years unless it’s for terrible contract, even if the roster shows signs of turning the corner.

There’s plenty to criticize without being impatient or being against a rebuild. And being in favor of a big contract or two to add talent does not mean committing to picking 14th indefinitely.

There might be plenty to criticize, but if there is so much, why do you just make shit up like the first sentence of the second to last paragraph?