We Have A Gm Problem

[PCAisBest]

I thought this was just bluster honestly, but seeing how the same exact firm covers both lotteries for the NHL and the NBA and seeing how badly the drafts have been going all the way back to the Penny Hardaway draft in the NBA I think the draft is another part of storytelling that sports wants to direct.

Ewing to NY.....

I really don't think the nhl draft is rigged no matter what conspiracy theories there are that the Hawks would get Bedard if they got rid of Kane and Toews. I think there's more tanking in effect then actual rigging.

The NBA on the other hand;

Ewing to NY
DRose to Bulls
Wemby and this year looks shady almost WWE-esque.

 

[dj Mahoney]

If We retain on Laurent Brossoit they can easily get a 2nd rder from someone like ,,,,,,,,,,,,,EDMONTON , Pickard cant stop a Beach Ball .

 

[BHFAN92]

+1..good deal

 

[hockeydoug]

So the path that Nill took, which was get extremely lucky in the draft? Sweeney's path? Which was retooling around Marchand/Bergeron while also getting extremely lucky in the draft?

They tore the team down because it was the quickest way up. They had a bottom-10 team with a bottom-10 prospect pool. There was no other way that would have made sense. Would you rather they had kept DeBrincat, Dach and Hagel? To what end? Those guys weren't good enough to help CHI get into the playoffs with Toews and Kane, what were they going to do when Toews and Kane were gone and that bottom-10 prospect pool yielded no impact players ascending to the roster?

He had plenty of hits and misses, he didn't put all his eggs in one basket and certainly didn't light 10s of millions on fire year after year. When things went bad he tanked hard to get good pieces.

I would have kept some pieces around or at least put a right shooting lw with Kane, anything to keep 2 functional nhl lines our there instead of zero. The kids are out there doing busy work most shifts, can't learn much when almost none of the skaters know what to do and the opponent is mailing games in.

I don't rate late firsts high, they're usually just long term depth projects, especially when you have literally dozens of high picks. I never thought a few extra firsts and 2nds were ever worth wasting most of entire years for young players.

As plenty others have said, you can build a couple lines and still lose to get those high picks that really matter.

We would have enjoyed “competitive” hockey and picked 7th and Doug would see no issues at all with being mediocre.

Right, what nobody said.

On that note

Tell me about how NBA execs should build hockey teams again.

Aka “just draft all the best players at the available draft slot”.

Yeah sounds great. Not a plan, more like a result.

Predictably, the rest is just vague platitudes and non-answers.

A Use all the assets to move forward, not just lighting 35 million on fire and drafting while waiting kids to teach other kids how to win without an opponent who gives a Sh$$.

 

[hockeydoug]

Oh man, going to be some serious KD hatin now.

2 years ago 6 years x 4 on a depth player was unthinkable and would be the worst possible decision I remember reading over and over and over again. Now he has Bert and Donato.

How in the world will they ever tank for a high pick?...and he can still buy a good player without jeapordizing a swing at McKenna.

 

[TheFridge]

He had plenty of hits and misses, he didn't put all his eggs in one basket and certainly didn't light 10s of millions on fire year after year. When things went bad he tanked hard to get good pieces.

I would have kept some pieces around or at least put a right shooting lw with Kane, anything to keep 2 functional nhl lines our there instead of zero. The kids are out there doing busy work most shifts, can't learn much when almost none of the skaters know what to do and the opponent is mailing games in.

I don't rate late firsts high, they're usually just long term depth projects, especially when you have literally dozens of high picks. I never thought a few extra firsts and 2nds were ever worth wasting most of entire years for young players.

You think Nill tanked the Stars when they finished basically .500 and then lucked into a historic 2017 draft for that franchise? Sure thing man. No one cares what you would or wouldn't have done.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Oh man, going to be some serious KD hatin now.

2 years ago 6 years x 4 on a depth player was unthinkable and would be the worst possible decision I remember reading over and over and over again. Now he has Bert and Donato.

How in the world will they ever tank for a high pick?...and he can still buy a good player without jeapordizing a swing at McKenna.

if Seth Jones can be moved so can Bertuzzi and Donato, they'll have them as a stop gap for a few years and either they're naturally pushed down the lineup into a more reasonable role for them or they're traded because there are no spots in the bottom 6 as well, if the cap does get to 113m then their AAVs should be relatively cheap and movable if they maintain 40-50 point production

 

[Mrfenn92]

Oh man, going to be some serious KD hatin now.

2 years ago 6 years x 4 on a depth player was unthinkable and would be the worst possible decision I remember reading over and over and over again. Now he has Bert and Donato.

How in the world will they ever tank for a high pick?...and he can still buy a good player without jeapordizing a swing at McKenna.

What are you talking about on the first paragraph

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

What are you even talking about on the first paragraph

Literally just making shit up.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Doug's not even making sense. if it's just about getting vets to teach the rookie how to get enough sleep, get through a whole season, eat right, etc. then they have Foligno, Murphy, Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Mikeheyev, Dickinson, Donato all there. How many vets do you need to babysit so that it's not "kids teaching other kids"

 

[hockeydoug]

What are you talking about on the first paragraph

Seriously? Any discussion of a contract going into 29 was hammered as detrimental to all the things great...and Jones was going to be an albatross according to slightly lower number here.

if Seth Jones can be moved so can Bertuzzi and Donato, they'll have them as a stop gap for a few years and either they're naturally pushed down the lineup into a more reasonable role for them or they're traded because there are no spots in the bottom 6 as well, if the cap does get to 113m then their AAVs should be relatively cheap and movable if they maintain 40-50 point production

And the cap was always going to spike up and depth contracts were never going to be in the way even of anything that matters even in 2031. Even if it wasn't a completely pick focused rebuild, any type of rebuild would have too many players on cost controlled contracts for all that stuff this board was hammering on about. I attribute it to Bowmanitis.

Doug's not even making sense. if it's just about getting vets to teach the rookie how to get enough sleep, get through a whole season, eat right, etc. then they have Foligno, Murphy, Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Mikeheyev, Dickinson, Donato all there. How many vets do you need to babysit so that it's not "kids teaching other kids"

Teens can babysit. Those vets don't know what a champion looks like start to finish so those guys aren't getting things moving in a positive direction imo, but it could have been coaching or both. Nobody is convincing me TT is driving a room or that Foligno or Murphy are going to elevate a team with intangibles given their lack of postseason history.

This team has come out like crap most periods since fall of 23. There's no sign of leadership in the room and it shows.

 

[hockeydoug]

You think Nill tanked the Stars when they finished basically .500 and then lucked into a historic 2017 draft for that franchise? Sure thing man. No one cares what you would or wouldn't have done.

He was 4pts out of the playoffs in 2015 on Feb 1 and started shopping and sold a couple of his healthy players. They played really well down the stretch finishing with 92pts and won the division the next year. He tried the same approach and it didn't work in 17 so he finished by tanking shutting guys down and moving what he could. He probably got lucky that draft, I don't buy that he's elite at anything.

He didn't draft great overall imo, but he did well enough and didn't over or under commit to drafting. He didn't spend great or always trade great but he kept moving things forward and was able to plug in a few pieces each year.

I assume winning postseason games are the priority, and I think everyone agrees championship runs take some good fortune out of a gm's control.

Since getting the job, Nill is only 4 playoff series wins behind the Lightning, tied with the Panthers, 2 series wins ahead of EDM, several ahead of COL, 3 ahead of Boston, 2 ahead of Carolina etc. That's not luck being in the CF or better , it was a team in purgatory for years when he got the keys. He just didn't waste time or money or commit to just one area to focus on for the rebuild. Most of the rest of the league committed to full tank in the meantime and most are far worse off than had they taken a similar approach.

 

[x Tame Impala]

He's brought in: Teravainen ($5.4m), Bertuzzi ($5.5m), Dickinson ($4.25m), and Mikheyev ($4.0m) to fill out the roster for at least next year. That would be solid depth on any playoff team and it's on our roster for a combined AAV of $19.15m or 20% of our cap.

Hard to look past this, or think KD didn't do well here

 

[hockeydoug]

He's brought in: Teravainen ($5.4m), Bertuzzi ($5.5m), Dickinson ($4.25m), and Mikheyev ($4.0m) to fill out the roster for at least next year. That would be solid depth on any playoff team and it's on our roster for a combined AAV of $19.15m or 20% of our cap.

Hard to look past this, or think KD didn't do well here

The contracts are good, and given that he had to dump a late pick to buy bad Weber money a larger payment on those contracts would have been justified. Those adds, still keeps them at a 65 or under pt team in 26'.

Based on what we've seen, Bedard is still essentially flying solo on a line unless Blashill has a solution identified. As the only identified core type talent, Bedard has to be a priority.

Capspace may be the cheapest it's been since 2006. 35ish million to spend this year on 4-6 contracts, 3 good RHD prospects, a pile of bottom 6 prospects, 14picks in the top 100 the next 2 drafts, I can't see him sitting back after missing on 2oa and Guentzel last year (if the reports were accurate). I think KD is going to take a big swing in a trade and he probably has to add a moderately expensive dman even if both players are not going to be part of the club in 2 or 3 years.

It won't take them out of the McKenna sweepstakes even adding a top 4 d and top line forward, so I think he kind of has to make a move. Wouldn't be shocked if Danny started nudging by now.

 

[Space umpire]

sure lets chat. what have I not answered? I have repeatedly said I like KDs draft picks, not fan of any of his FA signings other than Teravainen, not fan on of value return on most of his trades ( I loved the Seth Jones trade and Mikheyev trade). My biggest issue is his lack of ability to or willingness to acquire young guys when they hit market...ie Askarov, Gauthier, McGroarty, now Issac Howard who is on block . I completely understand a rebuild takes along time in the NHL and that Prospects hardly ever come in ready to play day 1..I get that...my biggest gripe is KD not signing younger veterans or looking to make trades like aforementioned young guys when they are available to augment the roster. I understand guys also "have to want to come here" but then I see the same posters say well wait to 2026 and look at the free agent class like somehow that same "they wanna sign here principle" is out the window because it fits that persons perspective of who they want. I feel like this board along with Bears board are homer fans who if you critique the GM or team you get jumped on for not being onboard with teams perspective. I hated Bowman because I felt like he was unqualified and road the coattails of his predecessor. I feel same way the KD is not qualified to be a GM

I’m not really sure if you’re serious or trolling.
Who are these young studs that are openly available that the Hawks have refused to inquire about? How is it you know he didn’t?
Detroit doesn’t seem interested in moving Howard. McG brought a very specific return. (If it were this summer maybe they have a chance but there was no NHL ready PPQB to send back.

You pretend you know things that you don’t have a clue about.

 

[Space umpire]

Around the trade deadline hopefully Laurent Brossoit and Connor Murphy are both healthy and on top of their game. They should each fetch possibly more than a 2nd rder ? I wouldn't mind Ryan Suter signed for 1 year to help the kids .

​

We do NOT need another veteran defender. Korchinski and Allen both should be here. Crevier and EDM have earned jobs. Vlasic and Murphy are proven
Brodie is the 7 and while not good last year it was the worst year of his career.
Adding a veteran won’t help the kids it will steal playing time from them.

 

[BHFAN92]

I’m not really sure if you’re serious or trolling.
Who are these young studs that are openly available that the Hawks have refused to inquire about? How is it you know he didn’t?
Detroit doesn’t seem interested in moving Howard. McG brought a very specific return. (If it were this summer maybe they have a chance but there was no NHL ready PPQB to send back.

You pretend you know things that you don’t have a clue about.

How is you know he did? Its Tampa Bay not Detroit. You pretend like you know things that you have no clue over.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Howard is probably a draft day deal, the season just ended...If Davidson hasn't talked to TB about Howard then he's missing an easy opportunity

 

[ColbyChaos]

Howard is probably a draft day deal, the season just ended...If Davidson hasn't talked to TB about Howard then he's missing an easy opportunity

Nazar’s GF and Howard’s GF were hanging out together recently on Insta. Trade is all but confirmed

 

[ploppsdman]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Who wants to spend hours of your mortal life watching a team designed to lose.

And for those who say it's the ONLY way to win a cup, that's nonsense. You practice your faith like a zealot.

There's no ONE way to do anything.

Maybe. Just maybe, you could have people who are really good at their job?

A good eye for talent. A collection of fantastic coaches to develop successful players?

Ya know, dont Mt Vesuvius your hockey team bc it's easier to build a winner when you pick in the top 3 for a decade (Why do you think the NHL has a lottery; it just isn't effective at disuading tanking.).

I get why they did it, but how do you not get how that's a giant waste of years and kind of sad?

 

[statswatcher]

there is no universe where a post-bowman blackhawks team is competitive within five years. the team was in for a lost decade the second stan decided to trade panarin. they were not going to the promised land with a core of kane hagel debrincat and jones, and i don't see how it's realistic to expect anyone to rapidly parlay that basket of assets in 2022 into something resembling a playoff threat by 2025-26.

 

[jaysoneil]

Seriously? Any discussion of a contract going into 29 was hammered as detrimental to all the things great...and Jones was going to be an albatross according to slightly lower number here.

And the cap was always going to spike up and depth contracts were never going to be in the way even of anything that matters even in 2031. Even if it wasn't a completely pick focused rebuild, any type of rebuild would have too many players on cost controlled contracts for all that stuff this board was hammering on about. I attribute it to Bowmanitis.

Teens can babysit. Those vets don't know what a champion looks like start to finish so those guys aren't getting things moving in a positive direction imo, but it could have been coaching or both. Nobody is convincing me TT is driving a room or that Foligno or Murphy are going to elevate a team with intangibles given their lack of postseason history.

This team has come out like crap most periods since fall of 23. There's no sign of leadership in the room and it shows.

Though I agree, they're just a stop-gap IMO.

Those players are for the most part consistent, which helps keep the team's head above water while they figure out what their identity is. Guys like Nazar and Donato set the standard for the team in regards to effort and going into deep waters. Chicago completely tore it down - well past the studs and joists.

I could be off my rocker, but it appears they're rebuilding everything - culture and all. If they're smart, they'll take a page out of the Gold Standard Florida Panthers culture.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Who wants to spend hours of your mortal life watching a team designed to lose.

And for those who say it's the ONLY way to win a cup, that's nonsense. You practice your faith like a zealot.

There's no ONE way to do anything.

Maybe. Just maybe, you could have people who are really good at their job?

A good eye for talent. A collection of fantastic coaches to develop successful players?

Ya know, dont Mt Vesuvius your hockey team bc it's easier to build a winner when you pick in the top 3 for a decade (Why do you think the NHL has a lottery; it just isn't effective at disuading tanking.).

I get why they did it, but how do you not get how that's a giant waste of years and kind of sad?

Not the only way but I haven't seen another effective way yet, and it's the smartest, and easiest way to get stars to build around.

 

[MHO]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Who wants to spend hours of your mortal life watching a team designed to lose.

And for those who say it's the ONLY way to win a cup, that's nonsense. You practice your faith like a zealot.

There's no ONE way to do anything.

Maybe. Just maybe, you could have people who are really good at their job?

A good eye for talent. A collection of fantastic coaches to develop successful players?

Ya know, dont Mt Vesuvius your hockey team bc it's easier to build a winner when you pick in the top 3 for a decade (Why do you think the NHL has a lottery; it just isn't effective at disuading tanking.).

I get why they did it, but how do you not get how that's a giant waste of years and kind of sad?

Yes there is more than 1 way to build a cup contender. And yes you could argue that they are losing on purpose. But if you can't see what's coming, well then I'd say that's on you.

Few would argue against KD inheriting a collection of crap with a few nice young pieces like Hagel, Strome, and DeBrincat. So if my choices are either to blow it all up, endure a few seasons of being awful, and then build it back up with a 70% chance of becoming a consistent cup contender or to keep trying to add to what is already here, likely finish between 8th and 12th in the conference for the new few seasons and there is a 10% chance of striking gold somehow and becoming a consistent cup contender, I'm picking the former.

They would no doubt finish with better records in the past 3 seasons if they kept those guys and gone for it with Kane, Toews, and Jones but do any of you really think we'd be in a better spot long term by doing something like that?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Can we call a spade a spade?

"Rebuild" is a euphemism for purposeful losing.

So, yeah, that's frustrating.

Who wants to spend hours of your mortal life watching a team designed to lose.

And for those who say it's the ONLY way to win a cup, that's nonsense. You practice your faith like a zealot.

There's no ONE way to do anything.

Maybe. Just maybe, you could have people who are really good at their job?

A good eye for talent. A collection of fantastic coaches to develop successful players?

Ya know, dont Mt Vesuvius your hockey team bc it's easier to build a winner when you pick in the top 3 for a decade (Why do you think the NHL has a lottery; it just isn't effective at disuading tanking.).

I get why they did it, but how do you not get how that's a giant waste of years and kind of sad?

its more of a waste of years when you try to 'compete' every year and your realistic cup chances are like 1-5%...you think you're going somewhere but you're really not, thats also a waste of time...the Bulls refuse to tear it down and they've been irrelevant for most of 30 years