We Have A Gm Problem

[ColbyChaos]

when you have people trying to declare this season a failure over picking 3rd in this year and not 11th I can definitely say with full confidence that we do have a fan problem.

 

[PCAisBest]

"The Hawks and Bulls are not comparable!!!"

Also, "Imma compare the Hawks and the Cubs..."

Who compared the Hawks with the Cubs?

I compared rebuilds. One GM rebuilt a team in 2/3 years and has his team in first place while the other is looking at a ten year rebuild to even be a playoff team.

There's a huge difference between a GM actually making a team better (Krause, Jed) and one who has ppl assuming he's losing on purpose for draft picks. Jordan taking 7 years is irrelevant when Jordan did everything in his power to win games. It wasn't in his DNA to lose for higher draft picks.

 

[Darkstar]

"The Hawks and Bulls are not comparable!!!"

Also, "Imma compare the Hawks and the Cubs..."

Ahh...the duality of the troll. It's like they're intellectually dishonest or something.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

Kaiser for Howard straight up, or a second round pick for Howard. TBL is not dealing from a position of strength.

I’d overpay a little to get it done. The odds of the overpay amounting to anything are probably less than 50%. Meanwhile Howard has already proven he’s at least NHL ready right now.

 

[TheFridge]

I’d overpay a little to get it done. The odds of the overpay amounting to anything are probably less than 50%. Meanwhile Howard has already proven he’s at least NHL ready right now.

He's proven he's too good for the NCAA. Big leap from too good for the NCAA and NHL-ready.

I like Howard. If the Hawks could get him, especially without giving up a 1st round pick, I'd do it. But I wouldn't be pencilling him into the opening night roster.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

He's proven he's too good for the NCAA. Big leap from too good for the NCAA and NHL-ready.

I like Howard. If the Hawks could get him, especially without giving up a 1st round pick, I'd do it. But I wouldn't be pencilling him into the opening night roster.

Isn’t the whole reason he’s available is because he wants to be on an NHL roster?

At least that’s what I thought.

If so, you’re not acquiring with the idea of playing him in Rockford. You’re absolutely acquiring him to pencil him into the starting lineup day 1.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Who compared the Hawks with the Cubs?

I compared rebuilds. One GM rebuilt a team in 2/3 years and has his team in first place while the other is looking at a ten year rebuild to even be a playoff team.

There's a huge difference between a GM actually making a team better (Krause, Jed) and one who has ppl assuming he's losing on purpose for draft picks. Jordan taking 7 years is irrelevant when Jordan did everything in his power to win games. It wasn't in his DNA to lose for higher draft picks.

Okay, you're comparing rebuilds. A rebuild in the NHL and a rebuild in the MLB.

There's a big difference in those sports and how to assemble teams in those sports. Baseball is hardly a team sport, the most teamwork that takes place is throwing a ball around to each other. Hockey is infinitely more complicated, thus assembling a competitive roster is infinitely more complicated.

There's a reason you can "money ball" a team in the MLB, while GM's that rely heavily on advanced stats struggle in the NHL.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

There is also no salary cap in baseball

 

[TheFridge]

Isn’t the whole reason he’s available is because he wants to be on an NHL roster?

At least that’s what I thought.

If so, you’re not acquiring with the idea of playing him in Rockford. You’re absolutely acquiring him to pencil him into the starting lineup day 1.

He wanted to burn a year at the end of the year with the Lightning, but they weren't willing/able to do that. So, he decided to spurn them and go back for his last year to become a UFA next August. That's how I understood his situation.

If the Hawks acquired him, obviously you'd be signing him to an NHL contract immediately but I don't think he's a guarantee to make the roster. That's my point.

 

[statswatcher]

kd has earned no goodwill. he has presided over three 8th place central division finishes in a row. if you look at last place divisional finishes since the current divisional format was introduced in 2013-14 (and excluding the 2020-21 covid season), chicago leads the league with 5 (if you included 2020-21 they'd be tied with buffalo). the silver lining is the only other team to finish last place three seasons in a row over that time span was montreal from 2021-2024, and they seem to be turning something of a corner, but either way you slice it it is a rough result. much of this i've been willing to explain away as the hangover of stanley's errant cup-chasing, but i think next year is reasonable to start expecting tangible results.

that's not to say 25-26 being successful turns on making a playoff push. not only is that unlikely to begin with, but a team over performing before it's actually ready for showtime can be its own issue. my baseline is this: team needs to be better than last place in the central, they need to start the season strong under a new coach, bedard needs to have a point per game or better season, lardis needs to transition to the pro game on a similar trajectory to nazar, rinzel and levshunov need to maintain and/or establish themselves as quality to elite nhl talents, dissapointing players like korch and reichel need to show more, and other prospects like kantserov need to maintain promising development outside of the organization. those are the big areas i will be looking at. if most of that doesn't happen, i'd think kd's job should be in jeopardy.

 

[CallMeShaft]

kd has earned no goodwill. he has presided over three 8th place central division finishes in a row. if you look at last place divisional finishes since the current divisional format was introduced in 2013-14 (and excluding the 2020-21 covid season), chicago leads the league with 5 (if you included 2020-21 they'd be tied with buffalo). the silver lining is the only other team to finish last place three seasons in a row over that time span was montreal from 2021-2024, and they seem to be turning something of a corner, but either way you slice it it is a rough result. much of this i've been willing to explain away as the hangover of stanley's errant cup-chasing, but i think next year is reasonable to start expecting tangible results.

that's not to say 25-26 being successful turns on making a playoff push. not only is that unlikely to begin with, but a team over performing before it's actually ready for showtime can be its own issue. my baseline is this: team needs to be better than last place in the central, they need to start the season strong under a new coach, bedard needs to have a point per game or better season, lardis needs to transition to the pro game on a similar trajectory to nazar, rinzel and levshunov need to maintain and/or establish themselves as quality to elite nhl talents, dissapointing players like korch and reichel need to show more, and other prospects like kantserov need to maintain promising development outside of the organization. those are the big areas i will be looking at. if most of that doesn't happen, i'd think kd's job should be in jeopardy.

Yes, Davidson has not earned any goodwill.

But he hasn't earned any bad-will either.

If you are impatient, you hate him with a passion. If you have patience, you acknowledge that a good rebuild takes time (if it was only a few years, it'd be a retool) and are withholding judgement of Davidson for a good while to allow him to potentially see it through.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

He wanted to burn a year at the end of the year with the Lightning, but they weren't willing/able to do that. So, he decided to spurn them and go back for his last year to become a UFA next August. That's how I understood his situation.

If the Hawks acquired him, obviously you'd be signing him to an NHL contract immediately but I don't think he's a guarantee to make the roster. That's my point.

Say he wanted to become a UFA, how does that play out for him at this point?

 

[PCAisBest]

There's a big difference in those sports and how to assemble teams in those sports.

No there isn't. How do you come to this conclusion when the ways to aquire talent are practically the same outside of mlb having an international draft?

They don't draft and make trades in baseball?

Baseball is hardly a team sport,

This is cringe.

Pitchers throw to catchers, yes?
Outfielders catch fly balls, yes?
Base running still exists, yes?
Relief pitchers haven't been outlawed?

the most teamwork that takes place is throwing a ball around to each other.

Do you watch baseball?

Hockey is infinitely more complicated, thus assembling a competitive roster is infinitely more complicated.

Complicated how? Seriously, how more complicated is creating a competitive hockey team compared to an mlb team? You are grasping at invisible straws. With this logic, what jed hoyer did, you know, fleecing a team for one of the best players in baseball, signing top tier free agents, getting one of the best managers in baseball, etc, is less impressive then Davidson creating a losing culture and giving away core players for scraps?

Really?

There's a reason you can "money ball" a team in the MLB, while GM's that rely heavily on advanced stats struggle in the NHL.

You can't "money ball" a team without talent. If you cannot identify a core to "money ball" around you have no hope for success.

If the Hawks GM is trying to build a Cup contender by signing has beens and draft picks there's a GM problem. There's no excuse imaginable that can convince anybody that Davidson has a clue on how to build a team let alone one that could be chasing a cup.

He traded a 90 pt player for a hail Mary.
He traded a 40 goal scorer for nothing.
He traded a top pairing defenseman for a back up goalie.
He's on his second head coach in what, three years?
He was gifted an uber talented kid who was touted as generational yet he's been nothing but average.

If the GM can't figure it out then get somebody in there who can.

 

[TheFridge]

Say he wanted to become a UFA, how does that play out for him at this point?

He waits until August 15th 2026 and then can sign with any team he wants. Seeing as the league knows he isn't signing with the Lightning, it really paints them into a corner. Once Howard becomes a UFA, the Lightning will be compensated with a 2nd round pick in the spot equivalent to where Howard was picked in the 1st round, in the draft immediately following him becoming a UFA (which will be the 2027 draft). As he was the 31st pick, they'll get the 62nd pick in the 2027 draft.

Any team that trades with the Lightning will want to ensure Howard will sign with them prior to trading for him, obviously. And if the Lightning are to facilitate a trade, you'd imagine you'd really only have to beat the 62nd overall pick in 2027 to do so.

Edit: The Lightning will get the 31st pick in the 2nd round of 2027 if Howard becomes a UFA. So not 62nd overall but 63rd.

 

[statswatcher]

Yes, Davidson has not earned any goodwill.

But he hasn't earned any bad-will either.

If you are impatient, you hate him with a passion. If you have patience, you acknowledge that a good rebuild takes time (if it was only a few years, it'd be a retool) and are withholding judgement of Davidson for a good while to allow him to potentially see it through.

if the team finishes last in the central for the fourth year in a row, they look like shit under blashill, bedard is still struggling to break out, lardis looks like a junior player, neither of rinzel or levshunov stick in the league, young guys like reichel and korch continue to flounder, and there are no gems having stand-out years in the system, then i don't think it would be unreasonable for one's patience to run thin. that's a lot to go wrong, and probably some of it will go right. all i meant to say is that is how i will be evaluating the upcoming season.

 

[PCAisBest]

There is also no salary cap in baseball

There's a luxury tax.

90% of the teams refuse to go over thresholds where they're forced to give away money.

Teams like the Dodgers don't care while teams like the Cubs cry about it and tell the fans they're breaking even when it's obvious they're not.

Good GM's find ways around it. Like Hoyer.

 

[CallMeShaft]

No there isn't. How do you come to this conclusion when the ways to aquire talent are practically the same outside of mlb having an international draft?

They don't draft and make trades in baseball?

This is cringe.

Pitchers throw to catchers, yes?
Outfielders catch fly balls, yes?
Base running still exists, yes?
Relief pitchers haven't been outlawed?


Do you watch baseball?

Complicated how? Seriously, how more complicated is creating a competitive hockey team compared to an mlb team? You are grasping at invisible straws. With this logic, what jed hoyer did, you know, fleecing a team for one of the best players in baseball, signing top tier free agents, getting one of the best managers in baseball, etc, is less impressive then Davidson creating a losing culture and giving away core players for scraps?

Really?

You can't "money ball" a team without talent. If you cannot identify a core to "money ball" around you have no hope for success.

If the Hawks GM is trying to build a Cup contender by signing has beens and draft picks there's a GM problem. There's no excuse imaginable that can convince anybody that Davidson has a clue on how to build a team let alone one that could be chasing a cup.

He traded a 90 pt player for a hail Mary.
He traded a 40 goal scorer for nothing.
He traded a top pairing defenseman for a back up goalie.
He's on his second head coach in what, three years?
He was gifted an uber talented kid who was touted as generational yet he's been nothing but average.

If the GM can't figure it out then get somebody in there who can.

Okay, I'm not going to respond to all of this, because I've seen Fiddy posts shorter than this.

Yes, I have watched baseball before. Managed to do it without falling asleep even, so that's an accomplishment for me.

There is a world of difference between the "team" aspect in baseball and the one in hockey. It ain't even f***ing close and I don't think I need to describe the vast difference there to a supposed fan of hockey. That makes it harder to assemble a team, you need guys that mesh with each other because line chemistry is a thing in hockey; it's pretty f***ing significant.

Regarding the head coaching position, google the average life span of a coach in this league and then get back to me.

And I'm letting you know right now that Korchinski is not yet a bust and Bedard is certainly not average, especially for his age. Continuing to push this type of narrative may be viewed as an attempt at trolling. If you want to say Bedard is underperforming compared to expectations, that's one thing. But he is 19 for another month, yet has already had consecutive seasons where he's leading an NHL team in points. Calling him "nothing but average" is nothing more than an attempt at getting a rise out of Hawks fans; that shit is not gonna fly.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Comparing baseball to hockey still I see. Might be time to go back and pretend to be fake important elsewhere.

 

[CallMeShaft]

if the team finishes last in the central for the fourth year in a row, they look like shit under blashill, bedard is still struggling to break out, lardis looks like a junior player, neither of rinzel or levshunov stick in the league, young guys like reichel and korch continue to flounder, and there are no gems having stand-out years in the system, then i don't think it would be unreasonable for one's patience to run thin. that's a lot to go wrong, and probably some of it will go right. all i meant to say is that is how i will be evaluating the upcoming season.

Lardis can look like a junior player, we selected him in the 3rd round. What he does or does not do should have little sway on the performance of management.

You can even say the same for Rinzel. I'm personally a big fan of his, but just because he is a former 1st rounder doesn't mean he has to pan out. A lot of guys in that range after 20 flame out. It's not the same as if Lev flames out, where the Hawks used a very significant asset for him. Korchinski is in a similar boat to Lev in that respect, Hawks gave up a lot to get him.

Reichel wasn't his pick so not sure that's on Davidson either.

What is on Davidson will be how this team looks under Blashill. Even if they finish bottom 5 again, the expectation should be that they are at least 'in' most games next season. If they aren't, yes, it's a death sentence (metaphorically speaking) for Davidson here.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

He waits until August 15th 2026 and then can sign with any team he wants. Seeing as the league knows he isn't signing with the Lightning, it really paints them into a corner. Once Howard becomes a UFA, the Lightning will be compensated with a 2nd round pick in the spot equivalent to where Howard was picked in the 1st round, in the draft immediately following him becoming a UFA (which will be the 2027 draft). As he was the 31st pick, they'll get the 62nd pick in the 2027 draft.

Any team that trades with the Lightning will want to ensure Howard will sign with them prior to trading for him, obviously. And if the Lightning are to facilitate a trade, you'd imagine you'd really only have to beat the 62nd overall pick in 2027 to do so.

Appreciate the thorough explanation. I thought he had more leverage to force his way onto the big club right now.

 

[TheFridge]

kd has earned no goodwill. he has presided over three 8th place central division finishes in a row. if you look at last place divisional finishes since the current divisional format was introduced in 2013-14 (and excluding the 2020-21 covid season), chicago leads the league with 5 (if you included 2020-21 they'd be tied with buffalo). the silver lining is the only other team to finish last place three seasons in a row over that time span was montreal from 2021-2024, and they seem to be turning something of a corner, but either way you slice it it is a rough result. much of this i've been willing to explain away as the hangover of stanley's errant cup-chasing, but i think next year is reasonable to start expecting tangible results.

that's not to say 25-26 being successful turns on making a playoff push. not only is that unlikely to begin with, but a team over performing before it's actually ready for showtime can be its own issue. my baseline is this: team needs to be better than last place in the central, they need to start the season strong under a new coach, bedard needs to have a point per game or better season, lardis needs to transition to the pro game on a similar trajectory to nazar, rinzel and levshunov need to maintain and/or establish themselves as quality to elite nhl talents, dissapointing players like korch and reichel need to show more, and other prospects like kantserov need to maintain promising development outside of the organization. those are the big areas i will be looking at. if most of that doesn't happen, i'd think kd's job should be in jeopardy.

I think he's earned a tremendous amount of goodwill. He took over a team that was directionless and floundering. Culminatively over the 3 seasons preceding 2021-22, the Blackhawks were 8th last in the NHL in points; their points% was .507.

Despite that, they had nothing to show for it. Their best prospect was Lukas Reichel by the start of the 2021 season and the best young player was the oft-injured Kirby Dach. Kane was playing on one hip and Toews was returning to the league after not playing for a year. To try and "compete", they would have been building a roster around DeBrincat, Strome, Jones and Hagel, while likely retaining Toews and Kane (assuming Toews wanted to sign/was able) -- without their own first round pick in 2021 and again in 2022.

Davidson looked at what the Hawks had, decided the only way up was down and committed to rebuild the Hawks from the ground up. As has been said ad nauseum, who knows if it'll work in the end but at the very least it is a plan. And now we're starting to see some of the payoff with Bedard, Nazar, Rinzel, Levshunov and Moore ascending to the NHL, with a boatload of other talented players right behind them.

 

[statswatcher]

Lardis can look like a junior player, we selected him in the 3rd round. What he does or does not do should have little sway on the performance of management.

You can even say the same for Rinzel. I'm personally a big fan of his, but just because he is a former 1st rounder doesn't mean he has to pan out. A lot of guys in that range after 20 flame out. It's not the same as if Lev flames out, where the Hawks used a very significant asset for him. Korchinski is in a similar boat to Lev in that respect, Hawks gave up a lot to get him.

Reichel wasn't his pick so not sure that's on Davidson either.

What is on Davidson will be how this team looks under Blashill. Even if they finish bottom 5 again, the expectation should be that they are at least 'in' most games next season. If they aren't, yes, it's a death sentence (metaphorically speaking) for Davidson here.

it's not all one thing or another. i didn't say "kd's job depends on lardis winning the calder" or something. i said that how lardis does will be among the things i am looking at. if you have a situation where lardis doesn't step in and have at least a really good ahl showing, that would be disappointing given what he's shown at the junior level. a part of that would be on him, and another part on the organization, and at the end of the day the front office wears the result. same thing with bedard. i didn't say "kd should be fired if bedard doesn't win the art ross". i said that i am hoping to see bedard score a point per game or better. just like lardis, if he doesn't a part of that is on him, a part of it is on the org, and the buck stops with kd as to why this is the result we ended up with.

i don't agree with the idea that the team being "in" games is a good way to judge anything at all. it doesn't really mean anything. it's cope. what i am offering are tangible things that if we see all or most of them happen i'd be satisfied even if the team is still very bad by nhl standards.

 

[statswatcher]

I think he's earned a tremendous amount of goodwill. He took over a team that was directionless and floundering.

i don't give him credit for the mistakes of his predecessors, but i agree this is at least reason to give him a grace period. bowman left him with a giant pile of trash to clean up. this upcoming season is when i think that excuse starts to ring a little hollow independent of anything else to show for it.

 

[PCAisBest]

There is a world of difference between the "team" aspect in baseball and the one in hockey.

Theyre both team sports and the goal is to win.

It ain't even f***ing close and I don't think I need to describe the vast difference there to a supposed fan of hockey. That makes it harder to assemble a team, you need guys that mesh with each other because line chemistry is a thing in hockey; it's pretty f***ing significant.

compared to baseball?

Lester had his own personal catcher.
High obp players need chemistry with players batting behind them.
Outfield defense
Pitching
Creating a winning culture, confidence, structure, etc.

How is any of that less significant then line chemistry? Chemistry in baseball is significant.

Regarding the head coaching position, google the average life span of a coach in this league and then get back to me.

Irrelevant

This team

And I'm letting you know right now that Korchinski is not yet a bust and Bedard is certainly not average, especially for his age. Continuing to push this type of narrative may be viewed as an attempt at trolling. If you want to say Bedard is underperforming compared to expectations, that's one thing. But he is 19 for another month, yet has already had consecutive seasons where he's leading an NHL team in points. Calling him "nothing but average" is nothing more than an attempt at getting a rise out of Hawks fans; that shit is not gonna fly.

Bedard has scored 60 pts two years in a row.
That's not "under performing". That's average.

Mackinnon had an average rookie year then wasn't even average for the next three.

How is being average at 19 in the nhl a bad thing now?

Trolling and my opinion about the current state of the slop the gm has cultivated are two different things. Ppl can just scroll past my posts or close their eyes if they think I'm trying to "get a rise" out of them when being average at 19 is a compliment considering the lofty praise Bedard was getting about being generational.

You guys are the ones who take words on a screen seriously, not me.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Scoring 60pts in this league is not "average". Like, it literally isn't, just based off math. Half the league isn't putting up 60pt seasons.

And they sure as hell ain't doing it on this Hawks roster.