Post-Game Talk: We’re all smilin with you tonight Stu

[oXo Cube]

Using your Hart caliber center in a Boyd Gordon role is dumb as a general rule Rob Brown is right about that.

That doesn't mean it can't work isolated to a game or two but at the same time our stars underproducing their expectation is something that is going to catch up to the team before the end if it doesn't change.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

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Katz should just pay wherever it takes to get that done

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

Using your Hart caliber center in a Boyd Gordon role is dumb as a general rule Rob Brown is right about that.

That doesn't mean it can't work isolated to a game or two but at the same time our stars underproducing their expectation is something that is going to catch up to the team before the end if it doesn't change.

The coach can just make adjustments during the game if it wasn't working.

 

[iCanada]

Imagine watching this guy and seeing these numbers as the GM who paid to get rid of him lol.

All part of the yzerplan.

After Rantanen the Walman trade might be the second best trade of the deadline. Especially with Ekholm being out for most of the playoffs.

You have to give credit where credit was due too - there was a lot of noise that we were a very close second on Rantanen, too.

Bowman starting to look pretty good, to be honest.

 

[bellagiobob]

Agreed. I'm perplexed that Knob gave Draisaitl the two most stone-handed wingers on the team, especially if, as most people surmise, he's clearly fighting something. Wouldn't it make sense to give him better finishers (i.e. Kane, Perry) or someone that can provide puck support (i.e. RNH?). One mediocre winger is fine, especially Podz, who can bring a physical element and retrieve pucks, but at least give him a passer/finisher on the other side.

We won, so it's water under the bridge, but the selection of wingers for Draisaitl is puzzling to say the least, especially now that we have actual depth.

Need decent speed on a line that is trying to contain Eichel, who had been owning most of his shifts in the first three games, so the choice of linemates made sense. I’m sure the lines going forward will be situational, depending on venue and opponent, but for one game this worked really well. That’s what I like about Knobs, he’s a smart coach who clearly studies tape, and has a good idea what combos will work in important games, even if it leaves most people shaking their heads. It’s almost uncanny.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

If Skinner even plays average going forward they likely won’t be putting Pickard back in, lets face it we have seen this before. Tough break for Pickard. All I want is wins, whoever is in net. I firmly believe Pickard has earned the net and gives us the best chance to win but we all know the spell Skinner has on management.

Not to take anything away from Stu last night he was great but does anyone think we don’t get the exact same result with Pickard in net with the way the team played?

 

[bellagiobob]

I would be embarrassed to even post that.

 

[bone]

Yzerplan in full motion.

I think time has gradually redeemed Holland in the Holland vs. Yzerman debate. Yeah Holland had to oversee the ruins of a virtual dynasty when the well finally ran dry, but Yzerman really hasn't generated any real improvement at all considering he's had 6 years of influence.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I would be embarrassed to even post that.

Half of them might just be tourists having a rest

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I'm in the Rob Brown camp, but it seemed to have worked for this game.

I don’t think it’s a long term thing. Vegas will adjust and so will we.

It was a huge reason why we won that last game so I don’t know what leg brown really has to stand on.

 

[bone]

Remember all the arm chair gms bashing bowman for the offseason and deadline? Lol

I don't think many criticized the Walman acquisition, most of the angst was over not getting another goaltending option, which is still very much in play as we now have no real backup if Skinner gets hurt or goes back into his slump.

Myself, I never blamed Bowman for the offseason, that was all Jackson's fault. I thought Bowman did decent to navigate out of the carnage created by the offer sheets by getting Podz and Emberson to lessen the blow.

My issues with Bowman will remain being his past (not sure he should be forgiven yet), and not addressing goaltending. I'm also still not sold that Frederic was worth his acquisition costs, but at least he's now contributing.

 

[bone]

Detroit fans made some shit up about him being a locker room cancer to justify that move lol.

Sometimes the guy speaking up in a cancerous dressing room is perceived as the cancer, when the true cancer is higher up the chain.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Using your Hart caliber center in a Boyd Gordon role is dumb as a general rule Rob Brown is right about that.

That doesn't mean it can't work isolated to a game or two but at the same time our stars underproducing their expectation is something that is going to catch up to the team before the end if it doesn't change.

It would be dumb if we weren't getting depth scoring.

Since we are, I think it's fine.

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

Sometimes the guy speaking up in a cancerous dressing room is perceived as the cancer, when the true cancer is higher up the chain.

Sounds like Perron here during the decade of darkness.

 

[McShogun99]

All part of the yzerplan.



You have to give credit where credit was due too - there was a lot of noise that we were a very close second on Rantanen, too.

Bowman starting to look pretty good, to be honest.

If we got Rantanen would we have had the assets to get Walman? It took Stankhoven and two 1sts and two 3rds to get him.

 

[bone]

As I mentioned in that post, I noticed that too. Interesting that Knob would choose the second-most skilled player on the team (and the league leader in goals) to lead a shutdown line, especially when that player has a limited defensive acumen. It's not something I would do, but I'm not a coach.

The bolded is a bit of a myth, when Draisaitl is focussed he's very good defensively, but he's very susceptible to getting drawn into a run and gun with McDavid and he gets caught cheating. Last night could very well been about resetting his fundamentals, and then rebuild his game, which I'm sure will show itself on the scoresheet within the next game or two.

 

[McShogun99]

I would be embarrassed to even post that.

This looks like a crowd in Stony Plain to watch their kids BMX competition.

 

[iCanada]

If we got Rantanen would we have had the assets to get Walman? It took Stankhoven and two 1sts and two 3rds to get him.

Different assets. This was reported well after we landed walman.

I imagine there were a number of balls in the air, tbh. I also know for a fact we had something with the ducks that was pending "another deal."

 

[bone]

I'm in the Rob Brown camp, but it seemed to have worked for this game.

I'm sure for Knoblauch it was all about a one game reset. Other better scoring wingers will be getting some shifts with him over the next game or two, guaranteed. I'd also suspect McDrai will get a few more shifts together than they did last night going forward. Drai will score at least one more big goal in this series guaranteed.

 

[bone]

Using your Hart caliber center in a Boyd Gordon role is dumb as a general rule Rob Brown is right about that.

That doesn't mean it can't work isolated to a game or two but at the same time our stars underproducing their expectation is something that is going to catch up to the team before the end if it doesn't change.

They were already underproducing and poor defensive habits were starting to creep in. I guarantee this was about stabilizing his overall game again so that when going hard for offense later, they at least have their defense back in order should the puck not go in for them.

 

[bucks_oil]

On the other hand - all three of the last cup winning goalies have been kind of garbage in this playoffs.

Vasi got lit the f*** up.

Bob straight up lost Florida the first two games of that Toronto series playing like a complete sieve, although he likely won them game 4.

Idk, having watched a lot of playoff hockey, that chart matches the eye test pretty well to me. Perhaps the take away is less "we shouldn't trust stats" and more "goaltenders are too fickle to trust as your anchor for 8+ years"?

Which kind of feels like conventional wisdom to me.

Fair enough. I haven't been following the other series at all.

There is a third and fourth possibility too:
3) A goalie, any goalie, can only do so much, and related
4) Over a small sample of time, discrete events skew the data way too much... what is a breakaway worth in GSAA, 0.5ish?? You get a couple more than the other guy, you get one from McD vs hmmm... 2023 Connor Brown.. the GSAA can't tell the difference, but as a goalie you certainly can.

Anyway... I personally feel those big-name goalies ARE worth it, and do generally make a difference... short-term stats be damned (though Helly now has 3 playoffs of hot garbage, so HE may be a true flake in the playoff pressure).

However if you take the "too fickle to trust as your anchor" perspective, then I have trouble squaring that with your anti-Skinner lamentations. If you can't trust an $8M, 10-year, multi-Vezina guy, shouldn't we expect the $2.6M 4-season, never-will-be-Vezina guy to be even more Jekkyl and Hyde on a game to game basis?

Holland by the way... the former goalie who wouldn't invest in goaltending would agree with you by the way... I think he was quoted as such... and you can see it (generally) in who he employed during playoff years in Detroit.... taking the perspective that it was better to invest in superstar forwards and D rather than an upgrade on Osgood or Legacy or whomever. I fear more of the same from Bowman (Crawford also never a big name guy).

 

[bleedthenorth]

Barring a generational meltdown, we're back to the WCF, all without Ekholm and a complete flop in our 7M top six winger acquisitions. not too shabby!

 

[bone]

If Skinner even plays average going forward they likely won’t be putting Pickard back in, lets face it we have seen this before. Tough break for Pickard. All I want is wins, whoever is in net. I firmly believe Pickard has earned the net and gives us the best chance to win but we all know the spell Skinner has on management.

Not to take anything away from Stu last night he was great but does anyone think we don’t get the exact same result with Pickard in net with the way the team played?

Possibly, but I'd also point out that Game 5 last round and Game 1 this round were equally dominant, maybe even moreso dominant, and both those games required comebacks. Game 1 even required a 2 goal comeback.

Ultimately, Skinner made 2 big saves in the first period to get the full potential out of a strong period which allowed the team to play smart through the 2nd and 3rd periods. Does Pickard maybe let one or two of those in? We'll never know.

 

[bucks_oil]

I was screaming for the blocker match to be called. They never call it anymore. Binnington goes nuts with his blocker once or twice a year it seems and nothing ever called. You can’t look at a goalie but seeing Binnington and Stolarz and now Hill all hacking and whacking and blockering it’s high time the league starts calling the goalie bullshit.

I don't think I've ever seen it called except in an actual fight... which I believe (wild 70's and 80's) was its intro into the rulebook?

Has it ever been routinely called in standard crease-defending?

 

[ahmedou]