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GDT: WCQF: Game 5 - Colorado Avalanche @ Dallas Stars | 7:30 MT

katfude said:
Honestly if losing game 6 gets us a new coach I could live with that. Trotting the same f***in system out with minimal adjustments at best isn't going to cut it now that the league has it figured out.
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I mean, they’re not going to make wholesale changes this late. And you KNOW the coaches are screaming in the ears of the stars to quit with the fancy bullshit.

If you look at the shot charts the Avs DID take a lot of their shots down low. The problem is, it was mostly the bottom six guys doing that. The top players just continually made fancy plays that went nowhere. The only time the top line made ANY headway was when they just bum rushed the net.

I’m not going to argue for a coaching change (certainly not rooting for them to lose) because if they lose this series it’s all but inevitable. But coaching IMO is far down the list of issues I have with this team. The following players have barely shown up so far.

Nichushkin
Makar
Toews
Nelson
Necas
Drouin

I mean that’s pretty much the entire top six and top pairing. I guess you can blame the coach there but I’m blaming the players. They proved in game four they CAN show up. They just not doing so.

MacKinnon has shown up for like, half the series but nowhere near his usual self.
 
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Pokecheque said:
I mean, they’re not going to make wholesale changes this late. And you KNOW the coaches are screaming in the ears of the stars to quit with the fancy bullshit.

If you look at the shot charts the Avs DID take a lot of their shots down low. The problem is, it was mostly the bottom six guys doing that. The top players just continually made fancy plays that went nowhere. The only time the top line made ANY headway was when they just bum rushed the net.

I’m not going to argue for a coaching change (certainly not rooting for them to lose) because if they lose this series it’s all but inevitable. But coaching IMO is far down the list of issues I have with this team. The following players have barely shown up so far.

Nichushkin
Makar
Toews
Nelson
Necas
Drouin

I mean that’s pretty much the entire top six and top pairing. I guess you can blame the coach there but I’m blaming the players. They proved in game four they CAN show up. They just not doing so.

MacKinnon has shown up for like, half the series but nowhere near his usual self.
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Agreed, too many players are ghosts. Being stuck in the same predictable system isn't fixable immediately, but needs to be addressed in the offseason, which is coming up VERY FAST for us.
 
As soon as that weird goal went in 9 seconds after puck drop I got a sinking feeling about this game. My hopes are dwindling for this series, but just go out and play desperate hockey Thursday and get a win, then go from there to beat the odds in game 7.

If the Avs do lose though, it's time to get Bednar out of here. Love the Cup win and everything but its just time for a change if they can't find a way.
 
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Pokecheque said:
I mean, they’re not going to make wholesale changes this late. And you KNOW the coaches are screaming in the ears of the stars to quit with the fancy bullshit.

If you look at the shot charts the Avs DID take a lot of their shots down low. The problem is, it was mostly the bottom six guys doing that. The top players just continually made fancy plays that went nowhere. The only time the top line made ANY headway was when they just bum rushed the net.

I’m not going to argue for a coaching change (certainly not rooting for them to lose) because if they lose this series it’s all but inevitable. But coaching IMO is far down the list of issues I have with this team. The following players have barely shown up so far.

Nichushkin
Makar
Toews
Nelson
Necas
Drouin

I mean that’s pretty much the entire top six and top pairing. I guess you can blame the coach there but I’m blaming the players. They proved in game four they CAN show up. They just not doing so.

MacKinnon has shown up for like, half the series but nowhere near his usual self.
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That's another annoying thing about this team. The top players don't seem to consistently (at least on a purely game-by-game basis) do the things that lead to success. Even when it was 1-0, they looked super dangerous whenever they went hard to the net and generated chaos around the blue paint. But then they take a few cross checks and fall to the ice and never want to venture into that area ever again.
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma said:
Not really. The Avs have consistently shown a trend where they let series slip away. Are you going to throw all the blame on the players for that? We've had a lot of roster turnover. The team also consistently plays a perimeter based game, and they consistently do the same high risk, low reward plays game in and game out. There are occasional games in there where things work out beautifully (like Game 4). But when things aren't going well, how often are they adapting and adjusting, how often do we see that gameplan deviate away from the perimeter based, look for the perfect shot style of game they insist on playing?

If that's all on the players, then what is Bednar doing? If it's not on the players, then Bednar's got to take some blame for that.

I'll go back to that Vegas series, DeBoer bitching and moaning so loudly about reffing 10000000% changed how the officials called that series. I honestly can't think of a big coaching moment like that from Bednar.

It's not that the system is a complete failure. It's that it almost requires perfect execution to work. He's shown he can't figure out how to use shapes that don't fit into his scheme. He requires every player to adjust to his system, and can't seem to figure out how to use them when they don't.

If the Avs had an option of running him as the overall "strategic" coach who figures out some of the bigger picture things, but he had a top tier assistant who could make in game strategic adjustments I'd be all for it. However, we know that our assistants can't do that, hell, they can't even do their own jobs right now.

I don't think he's a bad coach. I just don't think you can repeatedly trot out the same coaching staff when their actual track record for success doesn't warrant it.
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Thank you for providing a detailed answer. I don't believe any of this should have kept the Avs from winning though.

You lose most of the time in the playoffs. There's 20 players and one head coach. Just by default they should be to blame most of the time.

Avs were the better team to start against Vegas, then stopped playing for a few games. They were up 2-0. Then it was 2-2. Then they were the better team but lost the last two games.

Avs have been limiting the Stars chances, and generating their own, but not burying them. Their transition game hasn't been stifled. The Stars pressure on the forecheck hasn't been a big problem so far.

Tonight they got two flukey bounces, two bad goals from Blackwood, and 3 out 4 power plays they had to kill off shitty penalties, including taking away all their momentum after making it 3-2, and giving the Stars a 4-2 lead instead.

They've controlled the play most of the series. Stars led for 1:02 in four games before tonight. They've lost two games in OT.

I don't see an argument for how the coaching is to blame for these losses instead of the players.
 
Foppa2118 said:
Thank you for providing a detailed answer. I don't believe any of this should have kept the Avs from winning though.

You lose most of the time in the playoffs. Like 90+%. There's 20 players and one head coach. Just by default they should be to blame most of the time.

Avs were the better team to start against Vegas, then stopped playing for a few games. They were up 2-0. Then it was 2-2. Then they were the better team but lost the last two games.

Avs have been limiting the Stars chances, and generating their own, but not burying them. Their transition game hasn't been stifled. The Stars pressure on the forecheck hasn't been a big problem so far.

They've controlled the play most of the series. They've lost two games in OT.

I don't see an argument for how the coaching is to blame for these losses instead of the players.
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I'm not blaming one or the other, I'm blaming both. I don't think the players have shown up this series, and I think the coaches haven't done a great job coaching. I'm not blaming Bednar solely, I think his assistants have been putrid. The Avs should've won Game 2 and 3 if their powerplay was remotely dangerous. Their PK is the only thing that's trying to outpace the PP for horrific ineffectiveness.

I also think one of the most important jobs of a coach is to get the players focused and engaged and playing the way you expect of them. I don't think we've seen a concerted effort from the Avs aside from most of Game 1, some of Game 2 and Game 4.

I'll agree with you that they've not gotten the bounces. But I also think that Dallas has done a good job of manufacturing their luck and taking advantage of it. There just feels like a certain lack of killer instinct that exists between the Avs players and their coaches. DeBoer calling those timeouts during crucial Dallas PPs did them a world of good. Bednar for some reason seems insistent that timeouts are his precious
 
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Where is Cale Makar to begin with?

We have maybe 6 players that show up to every f***ing game. Rest of this team is coasting and looks like they are allready looking forward to their family-vacation......

I dont know if there is any other team out there that can go from "god-mode" into "shit-mode" in the span of 48 hours on a repeat.

We are healthy for the first time, CMac went all in, Dallas is playing without Heiskanen and Robertson, Nuke didnt went on his trip, and we got Landeskog back.....

And we still find a way to f*** away everything.......

We had a 4 min pp in Game 3 into OT.....and lost....We had them im Game 2 too....and lost.....

If they lose this series, Bednar must be gone. And with him the rest of his staff. Getting clowned by DeBoer for 2 years in a row and for the 4th time....No way. Its time to go.

This core is looking like a classic "One and Done"......Maybe i am wrong again, but i just dont see the hunger in them anymore.

You should think the return of the captain would spark a fire......Should.... It only lasted for Game 4......

Looks like Mikko Rantanen gets the last laugh this season. It would be the "perfect" ending if Rants scores the series-winner in Denver after Duchene did it last year......
 
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Grigowski said:
Where is Cale Makar to begin with?

We have maybe 6 players that show up to every f***ing game. Rest of this team is coasting and looks like they are allready looking forward to their family-vacation......

I dont know if there is any other team out there that can go from "god-mode" into "shit-mode" in the span of 48 hours on a repeat.

We are healthy for the first time, CMac went all in, Dallas is playing without Heiskanen and Robertson, Nuke didnt went on his trip, and we got Landeskog back.....

And we still find a way to f*** away everything.......

We had a 4 min pp in Game 3 into OT.....and lost....We had them im Game 2 too....and lost.....

If they lose this series, Bednar must be gone. And with him the rest of his staff. Getting clowned by DeBoer for 2 years in a row and for the 4th time....No way. Its time to go.

This core is looking like a classic "One and Done"......Maybe i am wrong again, but i just dont see the hunger in them anymore.

You should think the return of the captain would spark a fire......Should.... It only lasted for Game 4......

Looks like Mikko Rantanen gets the last laugh this season. It would be the "perfect" ending if Rants scores the series-winner in Denver after Duchene did it last year......
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With how things are going, part of me expects Dallas to sign Makar when he hits UFA, at a discount, and to form the most dominant pairing in the league for a good stretch of time.
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma said:
I'm not blaming one or the other, I'm blaming both. I don't think the players have shown up this series, and I think the coaches haven't done a great job coaching. I'm not blaming Bednar solely, I think his assistants have been putrid. The Avs should've won Game 2 and 3 if their powerplay was remotely dangerous. Their PK is the only thing that's trying to outpace the PP for horrific ineffectiveness.

I also think one of the most important jobs of a coach is to get the players focused and engaged and playing the way you expect of them. I don't think we've seen a concerted effort from the Avs aside from most of Game 1, some of Game 2 and Game 4.
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If the Avs bury one or two more goals to build on their lead, instead of giving up the lead in the third period for two OT losses, they may have been up 3-0 instead of down 2-1.

If they don't get two flukey bounces, two bad goals, and 3 out 4 shitty penalty calls that help take the momentum away and give the Stars a 4-2 lead, they may have won this game.

Avs stars are letting them down. Nate has goals but he hasn't played well. Makar, Val, Nelson, and Necas have been borderline terrible. Drouin is hurt and not playing well.

Doesn't matter who the coach is, if you're not getting the bounces or the calls, and the players generate chances but can't bury them, they won't win.

Despite all of that this team can still beat the Stars if they play like they want it. Like they did in Game 4. They can beat this team with Joe Sacco's dog behind the bench if they play like that.
 
Foppa2118 said:
If the Avs bury one or two more goals to build on their lead, instead of giving up the lead in the third period for two OT losses, they may have been up 3-0 instead of down 2-1.

If they don't get two flukey bounces, two bad goals, and 3 out 4 shitty penalty calls that help take the momentum away and give the Stars a 4-2 lead, they may have won this game.

Avs stars are letting them down. Nate has goals but he hasn't played well. Makar, Val, Nelson, and Necas have been borderline terrible. Drouin is hurt and not playing well.

Doesn't matter who the coach is, if the players generate chances but can't bury them, they won't win.
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I think that goes both ways though. If the Avs don't come out turtling in game 2 (and somewhat in game 3) after taking leads going into the third, do they get that extra goal or two to provide them the cushion for victory? If you're the coach and you want the players to keep the foot on the gas and you see them come out just looking to waste 20 minutes, do you not call a timeout and get them back in gear?

I think that's where the blame falls on both the players and the coaches. Neither set of parties has really shown up so far this series. It's the major reason they are in the situation they are in. The players have played like dog shit. Hell, I've said a few times already that they look like they have non-refundable vacations that they're eager to get to. It doesn't particularly look like the coaches are on a different boat.
 
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It's honestly one of those situations where I'd be so, so happy if suddenly the Game 4 Avs show up for Game 6 and 7 and they have a dominant end of the series leading to the win. I'd love it even more if it's Bednar leading that charge with some amazing tactical adjustments, or just verbally shitkicking the boys into being focused.

I really think this is the Avs best chance at winning another Cup. They need a lot of things to go right, and they really, really need to be building momentum to do that.
 
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SoundwaveIsCharisma said:
It's honestly one of those situations where I'd be so, so happy if suddenly the Game 4 Avs show up for Game 6 and 7 and they have a dominant end of the series leading to the win. I'd love it even more if it's Bednar leading that charge with some amazing tactical adjustments, or just verbally shitkicking the boys into being focused.

I really think this is the Avs best chance at winning another Cup. They need a lot of things to go right, and they really, really need to be building momentum to do that.
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This team can't win game 7s, and can't beat DeBoer either. It's over lmao. I had high hopes, but this team is just mentally weak. We're cooked
 
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SoundwaveIsCharisma said:
It's honestly one of those situations where I'd be so, so happy if suddenly the Game 4 Avs show up for Game 6 and 7 and they have a dominant end of the series leading to the win. I'd love it even more if it's Bednar leading that charge with some amazing tactical adjustments, or just verbally shitkicking the boys into being focused.

I really think this is the Avs best chance at winning another Cup. They need a lot of things to go right, and they really, really need to be building momentum to do that.
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My fear at this point (other than them just putting up another complete stinker at home) is that they do completely run over the stars in game 6 and then have another deflated effort in game 7. That seems to be this team's MO.
 
AegonLeConqueror said:
My fear at this point (other than them just putting up another complete stinker at home) is that they do completely run over the stars in game 6 and then have another deflated effort in game 7. That seems to be this team's MO.
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Hahaha, well, if that's the case I'll be here being excited after Game 6, and I'll just copy and paste what I've already written for Game 7
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma said:
I think that goes both ways though. If the Avs don't come out turtling in game 2 (and somewhat in game 3) after taking leads going into the third, do they get that extra goal or two to provide them the cushion for victory? If you're the coach and you want the players to keep the foot on the gas and you see them come out just looking to waste 20 minutes, do you not call a timeout and get them back in gear?

I think that's where the blame falls on both the players and the coaches. Neither set of parties has really shown up so far this series. It's the major reason they are in the situation they are in. The players have played like dog shit. Hell, I've said a few times already that they look like they have non-refundable vacations that they're eager to get to. It doesn't particularly look like the coaches are on a different boat.
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Avs had the lead in the third period of Game 2 and 3 though. They just couldn't build on it and left the Stars within one goal.

I don't put too much blame on little things like Bednar not calling a timeout.

Avs should be able to win these games if they just bury their chances. That's their job and they're not doing it.

Bednar is doing his job IMO. Stars forecheck hasn't been that effective and the Avs breakout is still working ok. They're generating chances and limiting the Stars chances.

This has put them in a position to succeed they just haven't been clutch enough. The Stars have been better in the "big moments."
 
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