WC SF: May 14 GDT - Russia vs. Canada

[mr gib]

I think it has something to do with the russian attitude, don't mean this as a flame or anything but IMHO they have always (well, recently atleast) had 'selfish' attitude meaning everyone wants to be the top forward scoring the deciding goals. That results poor teamplay and lack of talent in defense and goal.

Remember shinny-hockey as kids? Everybody wanted to be a forward, nobody wanted to be a d-man or let alone a goalie. I see a similar attitude in Russia all the way to the top. This was not a problem during the CCCP-days when there were very strict coaching & system which made sure that d-men were also top-notch.

Finland is maybe just the opposite, we're too humble so everybody is happy enough to be a hard-working 3rd line grinder or defensive d-man and nobody has the ambition to be a top scorer. Canada is somewhere in between which results a great balanced system. Of course there are exceptions and this is only my observation.

i think they have a - we'll get em next time attitude - if they get really behind - they didn't give up today - the nhl is rubbing off on them - i still don't think they're willing to take a beating - ie - thornton behind the net - what a monster - if fedor could rise up to that - he could be one of the best power guys around

 

[wilka91*]

I think it has something to do with the russian attitude, don't mean this as a flame or anything but IMHO they have always (well, recently atleast) had 'selfish' attitude meaning everyone wants to be the top forward scoring the deciding goals. That results poor teamplay and lack of talent in defense and goal.

I agree with that, but just not today. Russia did outplay Canada 5 on 5 today, and it weren't because of selfish forwards.

Today's key factors were : Brodeur wall, Russia's bad PK and weak goaltending.

 

[mr gib]

Another thing about Canada's luck. Canada develops their players at all positions. Whereas there are nations that excel at one or two positions, Canada builds depth at all positions. Canada may not be the best in the world at any position in particular, but they do have competitive depth throughout their roster, at every position. The better your team is at all positions, the fewer weaknesses there are to exploit and the stronger your team will be overall. It's surprising that Canada has had such great success at this development strategy, considering they are a nation of but 30 million.

Having the best goaltender in the world doesn't hurt either.

ya - i'd have to say marty is the best right now -

 

[Tricolore#20]

It's surprising that Canada has had such great success at this development strategy, considering they are a nation of but 30 million.

Great post. This comment though I don't agree with. Is it really that surprising? Hockey is part of our culture. We all play hockey as children, and don't really pursue high level competition in other sports. It really isn't that surprising that they have been able to develop strength at all positions, considering we've all played it.

In which other countries is hockey so important like ours? Finland for certain, and perhaps Slovakia and Russia. Our best athletes go into hockey. In other nations, the best athletes go into different sports, in addition to hockey.

 

[wilka91*]

considering they are a nation of but 30 million.

and still has 3,000 rinks and 500,000 registered players compared to Russia's 120 and 50,000 ... no, I won't engage in another argument about depth. This is ridiculous. I mean Russia can put a great goalie between the pipes, and more physical or skilled defensemen. But they all refused to play, were injured, or had some other excuse.

 

[Westlander]

Man Fetisov has to do something ............we need guys like Khabi back on the track .............its just painful every ****ing year !

Is Khabibulan still ticked off because of the '92 Olympics? Why hasn't team Russia found a way to mend that fence by now?

 

[Sotnos]

There almost seems to be an arrogance with their coaches that because their teams has so much skill they don't have to react to what's happening on the ice. They had last change in this game and they did nothing to get the Doan-Draper and Maltby away from their top line -- and Russian teams do this all the time. They had Yashin, of all people, killing penalties. Look at the '87 Canada Cup when Tikhonov puts out a 19-year-old Igor Kravchuk on defence in the final minute of Game 3 against Gretzky, Lemieux and Hawerchuk while Fetisov sits on the bench.

That's a very interesting observation, and it does seem to be a pattern now that I think about it.

To me, an outside observer, it seems that the Russian 'hockey gods' need to do something about the players they've alienated for one reason or another. They need these guys to play now and contribute to Russian hockey development in the future. Something has soured these guys on playing for the national team, and it needs to be addressed. Just thinking about what this team could have been is enough to make you sick. It's sad really.

My $.02, which is about all it's worth

 

[CSKA]

Another thing about Canada's luck. Canada develops their players at all positions. Whereas there are nations that excel at one or two positions, Canada builds depth at all positions. Canada may not be the best in the world at any position in particular, but they do have competitive depth throughout their roster, at every position. The better your team is at all positions, the fewer weaknesses there are to exploit and the stronger your team will be overall. It's surprising that Canada has had such great success at this development strategy, considering they are a nation of but 30 million.

Having the best goaltender in the world doesn't hurt either.

O boy how often , Hockey is your Nr1 sport ..... Forget about 30 million ! What about Czech ? Slovaks ? Sweden Population ?
Yor best athlets plays hockey.............thats it

 

[Tuggy]

If anyone wants the Canadian avatar that I have, let me know.

The one I have right now is too big for non-sponsors, so if you aren't a sponsor and want it, I'll send you the smaller version.

We need to fill up the Canada bandwagon for the game tomorrow!

Did Nike pay you to make that?

 

[Tricolore#20]

Hey CSKA, do you support the football team too?

They are looking mightily good man. Hopefully, they win the UEFA.

 

[CSKA]

Hey CSKA, do you support the football team too?

They are looking mightily good man. Hopefully, they win the UEFA.

yes. but Hockey ist just my Nr1 sport .........I LOVE THAT GAME

 

[Riddarn]

O boy how often , Hockey is your Nr1 sport ..... Forget about 30 million ! What about Czech ? Slovaks ? Sweden Population ?
Yor best athlets plays hockey.............thats it

Exactly. In all the european countries except possibly Finland, soccer is so huge that it swallows alot of the athleticly gifted youngsters out there.

This is a pretty redundant discussion.

 

[mr gib]

O boy how often , Hockey is your Nr1 sport ..... Forget about 30 million ! What about Czech ? Slovaks ? Sweden Population ?
Yor best athlets plays hockey.............thats it

although at the minor hockey level though enrollment is decreasing for the first time - becoming way too $$$ - as for all our athletes playing hockey - sorry - steve nash - 17 player's in the mlb - including larry walker - owen hargreaves - tomas radzinski - soccer in europe - jerome pathon and jesse lumsden - nfl - and many more

 

[Sotnos]

Is Khabibulan still ticked off because of the '92 Olympics? Why hasn't team Russia found a way to mend that fence by now?

I think there's more to it than that. Khabi doesn't ever have a bad word to say about anyone, but he flat out said he hates Tikhonov, and won't participate as long as he has anything to do with the national team. I think they named him "consultant" or something for the World Cup team, and even that was enough to keep him away. I think it's more than the whole Olympics thing, but who knows.

 

[kolanos]

O boy how often , Hockey is your Nr1 sport ..... Forget about 30 million ! What about Czech ? Slovaks ? Sweden Population ?
Yor best athlets plays hockey.............thats it

Yeah, and what about that? What is the #1 sport in Russia, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Sweden, Finland? Last I checked, hockey was the, if not close to the #1 sport in all those countries.

As for my remark about it being surprising, regardless of how popular hockey is in Canada, it is still pretty remarkable the amount of hockey talent Canada can produce compared with a nation with five times the population like Russia.

Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, etc all small nations in terms of population and all do very well considering, no arguement there.

 

[CSKA]

although at the minor hockey level though enrollment is decreasing for the first time - becoming way too $$$ - as for all our athletes playing hockey - sorry - steve nash - 17 player's in the mlb - including larry walker - owen hargreaves - tomas radzinski - soccer in europe - jerome pathon and jesse lumsden - nfl - and many more

come on but you cant just compare it with europe ! Look at Russia we have dosen of ahtletes in nearly every kind of sport

 

[Westlander]

O boy how often , Hockey is your Nr1 sport ..... Forget about 30 million ! What about Czech ? Slovaks ? Sweden Population ?
Yor best athlets plays hockey.............thats it

I have to agree with that. The Czechs and Slovaks in particular must have excellent systems for developing talent, perhaps even the best per capita. Especially considering that they have smaller populations, and neither one of them are as affluent a country as Canada. Although I think Canada is again back on track in terms of producing talent, after that slide in the mid-late 90's.

 

[mr gib]

come on but you cant just compare it with europe ! Look at Russia we have dosen of ahtletes in nearly every kind of sport

i'm just saying we do too - i'll look it up for you as well - we have way more kids playing soccer than hockey

 

[kolanos]

although at the minor hockey level though enrollment is decreasing for the first time - becoming way too $$$ - as for all our athletes playing hockey - sorry - steve nash - 17 player's in the mlb - including larry walker - owen hargreaves - tomas radzinski - soccer in europe - jerome pathon and jesse lumsden - nfl - and many more

Don't forget Eric Gagne, one of the fastest pitchers in the MLB right now.

 

[wilka91*]

Yeah, and what about that? What is the #1 sport in Russia, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Sweden, Finland? Last I checked, hockey was the, if not close to the #1 sport in all those countries.

No man, hockey is only number 1 in Canada and Finland (that's what the Finns told me).

You should also check out the medal counts at the winter+summer olympic games, and you will see that Canada wins most of its medals in the hockey, skating and curling tournaments.

But let's just not consider this. Hockey is hockey. All teams have 23 players. All those interpretations about rinks, population, popularity are pointless.

 

[CSKA]

Yeah, and what about that? What is the #1 sport in Russia, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Sweden, Finland? Last I checked, hockey was the, if not close to the #1 sport in all those countries.

As for my remark about it being surprising, regardless of how popular hockey is in Canada, it is still pretty remarkable the amount of hockey talent Canada can produce compared with a nation with five times the population like Russia.

Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, etc all small nations in terms of population and all do very well considering, no arguement there.

kolanos ...dude come on Canada has what ? 5000 rinks ? Canada has enough money for hockey......... Russia needs it elsewhere

 

[Tricolore#20]

No man, hockey is only number 1 in Canada and Finland (that's what the Finns told me).

You should also check out the medal counts at the winter+summer olympic games, and you will see that Canada wins most of its medals in the hockey, skating and curling tournaments.

But let's just not consider this. Hockey is hockey. All teams have 23 players. All those interpretations about rinks, population, popularity are pointless.

He's apparently not a soccer fan either.

 

[mr gib]

Don't forget Eric Gagne, one of the fastest pitchers in the MLB right now.

thanks - how could i forget him - jeff francis and mourneau

 

[DaaaaB's]

Yep. Too bad, two weeks ago it looked like Russia had a real team, but apparantly, they didn't. Hopefully the Czechs beat Sweden tonight because I can't see any other team than the Czechs beating the Canoes for gold.

So you would cheer against your own country just because you don't want Canada to win. That's pretty pathetic.

 

[wilka91*]

i'm just saying we do too