WC: WC 2018 - Team Russia

[Khokhlach86]

lineup vs Czech

Shestyorkin (Koshechkin)

Kiselevich-Khafizullin, Kaprizov-Anisimov-Dadonov;

Gavrikov - Tryamkin, Mamin - Andronov (A) - Soshnikov;

Yakovlev - Bereglazov, Kruchinin - Tkachyov - Buchnevich;

Belov, Byvaltsev - Kablukov (A) - Mikheev, Semyonov.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Im saying it again. This is the worst roster since 2005 and the coaching is equal to that.

The great downhill started with Bilyaletdinov, both him and Znarok had their small success from the spoils of Bykov's era, who started motivating the stars to come and play, won all EHT and had great WC-results. Sight.

 

[b0rn2beWild]

Olympic hero Nikita Gusev injured too?

 

[Kshahdoo]

Olympic hero Nikita Gusev injured too?

It's hard to say. They say, he's having some rest after the season. Because he doesn't need to earn a place on the roster after all.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Im saying it again. This is the worst roster since 2005 and the coaching is equal to that.

Dunno. The roster seems ok to me. At this level, when you lose five games on a row (thankfully they defeated the allmighty Czechs), you can hardly give it on the roster.

 

[Atas2000]

Im saying it again. This is the worst roster since 2005 and the coaching is equal to that.

The great downhill started with Bilyaletdinov, both him and Znarok had their small success from the spoils of Bykov's era, who started motivating the stars to come and play, won all EHT and had great WC-results. Sight.

LOL "the spoils" of the Bykov-loser era? Billyaletdinov was the last adequate coach we had and you are just the ususal BiZ-losers apologetist.

 

[Atas2000]

Dunno. The roster seems ok to me. At this level, when you lose five games on a row (thankfully they defeated the allmighty Czechs), you can hardly give it on the roster.

Of you are aiming at coaching it is wy off target. What I don't understand is the obsession with meaningless games.

 

[Atas2000]

Olympic hero Nikita Gusev injured too?

No, there is just no need playing him in those games.

 

[Atas2000]

Judging by the horrible performance of Team Russia in the last 5 games (including today's probable loss to Sweden), i.e. 5 losses in 5 games, I think the quarterfinals are unfortunately the cap for the Russian Team in the WC 2018. With Znarok having left, his replacement, Vorobyov, is so far showing himself to be incompetent. The Russian hockey officials in the RIHF have managed to bring down Russian hockey pretty badly in the last few years. How can we expect changes?

Can some of you fast out of the gate guys tell me how Vorobiev showed his incompetence in 5 totally meaningless games? Or can we at least wait till he coaches one WC game? Btw he will have the disadvantage of the worst roster in years. You expect him to win with that roster or waht?

 

[cgf]

The loss of Bobrovsky will hurt, but Zadorov, not so much. He is very much unproven. Potential, maybe, but no accomplishments. The bright side? Not that bright, but this will provide an opportunity to evaluate how well Vorobyov performs in the absence of real talent. With Znarok, this lineup would have merited a 5th or 6th place finish.

He has been an excellent blueliner in the NHL this season, who ate major minutes and changed the way teams played when he was on the ice. The kid's become an absolute force in his own zone, while continuing to flash that creativity & bravado with the puck that he was asked to dial back by the coaching staff so he could focus on his defensive game first. He & Johnson were one of the best shutdown pairings in the NHL this season, and after Johnson got injured Nikita & Barrie formed a highly effective top pairing that was eating ~25 minutes a night for a playoff team that gave the NHL's top regular season team the biggest test of any western conference round 1 winner.

He needs to repeat this performance to continue to prove himself, but he's not just potential anymore...and if he can continue to build on the progress he's already made, it's not implausible for him to become a legit NHL #1 like Erik Johnson, or a more defensive-focused Buff, in time.

 

[Planet Hockey]

Can some of you fast out of the gate guys tell me how Vorobiev showed his incompetence in 5 totally meaningless games? Or can we at least wait till he coaches one WC game? Btw he will have the disadvantage of the worst roster in years. You expect him to win with that roster or waht?

I don't know as much about specific players as many of the posters here, but it feels like people are assuming it's a terrible roster because it's KHL-heavy w/o a lot of NHL commits. Injuries stink but every country has a ton of guys who chose not to play. Doesn't matter why everyone is missing people. Missing is missing.

Many of these players are from Moscow and St. Petersburg right? They can skate with the best NHL talent. KHL is a very thin league compared to the NHL but this isn't New York vs Dynamo Riga. Datsyuk and Gusev are as good as anyone in the tournament and Russia will have better goaltending than Canada IMO. Just can't fall behind to Canada again b/c that team is built to swarm and protect leads.

 

[Yakushev72]

Can some of you fast out of the gate guys tell me how Vorobiev showed his incompetence in 5 totally meaningless games? Or can we at least wait till he coaches one WC game? Btw he will have the disadvantage of the worst roster in years. You expect him to win with that roster or waht?

He is just being realistic to expect that Russia will be one of the teams eliminated in the Quarter Finals. It is a combination of a bankrupt talent pool, lack of interest in representing Russia and lack of faith in the coaching staff. This will be Vorobyov's chance to show what he can do. If it is a 5th or 6th place finish, lack of talent is a less compelling excuse. If he wants a longer-term future with the national team, he has to deliver something of value in 2018.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Of you are aiming at coaching it is wy off target. What I don't understand is the obsession with meaningless games.

The coach is fine. The system is sick.

 

[Atas2000]

The coach is fine. The system is sick.

Most people probably have very limited experience with organizational structures. I think it is a question of three to five personal decisions that would change the picture completely over the course of 2-4 years. The problem of course us those decisions have to be made by someone with the appropriate authority and that is not likely for now

 

[Atas2000]

He is just being realistic to expect that Russia will be one of the teams eliminated in the Quarter Finals. It is a combination of a bankrupt talent pool, lack of interest in representing Russia and lack of faith in the coaching staff. This will be Vorobyov's chance to show what he can do. If it is a 5th or 6th place finish, lack of talent is a less compelling excuse. If he wants a longer-term future with the national team, he has to deliver something of value in 2018.

The talent pool isn't a black hole. The management of that pool is poor. Including lack of idea how to prevent immature kids from killing their careers in NA. I also don't see the lack of interest. So far Radulov is the only guy who is obviously just not willing, while I can see why even though I would handle it differently. Who else is not interested? Other than that Vorobiev is not getting a free pass like coaches before him in form of a major talent influx for his inaugural WC. He will have to manage with what he gets.

The first test he has to pass tomorrow. If he gets all anxious and banks on both WSH and TBL to lose and leaves endless open spots on the roster he is probably not ready to win by cpaching rather than by the roster.

Being realistic I don't expect him to win with the D depth he will have. His weak spot already is his love for Koshechkin. He ties himself up with it. Yeah, Koshechkin won him a championship and all, but if he gets stuck with an underperforming Koshechkin in net he's in trouble. Especially with that D. If WSH and TBL advance he will have a worse than the olympic roster by far. If he gets to medal with it it would be an accomplishment.

 

[migi]

When are they going to release the team?

 

[Khokhlach86]

When are they going to release the team?

Tomorrow

 

[Yakushev72]

The talent pool isn't a black hole. The management of that pool is poor. Including lack of idea how to prevent immature kids from killing their careers in NA. I also don't see the lack of interest. So far Radulov is the only guy who is obviously just not willing, while I can see why even though I would handle it differently. Who else is not interested? Other than that Vorobiev is not getting a free pass like coaches before him in form of a major talent influx for his inaugural WC. He will have to manage with what he gets.

The first test he has to pass tomorrow. If he gets all anxious and banks on both WSH and TBL to lose and leaves endless open spots on the roster he is probably not ready to win by cpaching rather than by the roster.

Being realistic I don't expect him to win with the D depth he will have. His weak spot already is his love for Koshechkin. He ties himself up with it. Yeah, Koshechkin won him a championship and all, but if he gets stuck with an underperforming Koshechkin in net he's in trouble. Especially with that D. If WSH and TBL advance he will have a worse than the olympic roster by far. If he gets to medal with it it would be an accomplishment.

Of course I am not arguing that there is some sort of sub-standard gene pool. I am saying that the system is not producing enough top level talent to win international tournaments, and that in fact the actual numbers of quality players is falling off (declining, reducing). The expected increase in talent from the creation of the KHL and MHL, which was reasonable to expect, has not materialized. The talented players who do exist are mainly in the NHL (and for youth, CHL), and they seem to be showing a diminished interest in coming back to Europe and engaging in an exhausting tournament in the WC.

Thus the convergence of all of the mass injuries afflicting NHL players at the end of the season. Tarasenko did in fact have surgery, which means that he needed surgery in the SC playoffs but put it off to compete for St. Louis. I haven't heard about surgery for anyone else, which means they just wanted a "rest." They had 12 to 14 days to rest before joining the national team, so I interpret as largely being disinterested in going through everything involved to join the team. Even Svechnikov's CHL management offered a confusing reason for why he was unable to join the U18 team. In any case, the lineup for 2018 suggests that there is a kind of black hole of talent available for the team.

 

[Atas2000]

I don't know as much about specific players as many of the posters here, but it feels like people are assuming it's a terrible roster because it's KHL-heavy w/o a lot of NHL commits. Injuries stink but every country has a ton of guys who chose not to play. Doesn't matter why everyone is missing people. Missing is missing.

Many of these players are from Moscow and St. Petersburg right? They can skate with the best NHL talent. KHL is a very thin league compared to the NHL but this isn't New York vs Dynamo Riga. Datsyuk and Gusev are as good as anyone in the tournament and Russia will have better goaltending than Canada IMO. Just can't fall behind to Canada again b/c that team is built to swarm and protect leads.

Look, the major concern is the D. It's no secret the KHL defencemen are not good. And with even Voynov out it's a sad picture. And I doubt Zaytsev will save the day. We will likely see a D with the likes of Khafizullin on it. That's not good by any measure.

Without NHLers the top line will be Gusev - Dats - Kaprizov. The duo of Tkachyov and Buchnevich seems to have found chemistry. And that's about it. That is amazingly weak for the russian NT. I wonder why Vorobiev hasn't invited Zaripov and Mozyakin. Maybe there are grudges there from his firing in Magnitigorsk. No Kovalchuk. So no, this not even the best KHL has to offer.

 

[Atas2000]

Of course I am not arguing that there is some sort of sub-standard gene pool. I am saying that the system is not producing enough top level talent to win international tournaments, and that in fact the actual numbers of quality players is falling off (declining, reducing). The expected increase in talent from the creation of the KHL and MHL, which was reasonable to expect, has not materialized. The talented players who do exist are mainly in the NHL (and for youth, CHL), and they seem to be showing a diminished interest in coming back to Europe and engaging in an exhausting tournament in the WC.

Thus the convergence of all of the mass injuries afflicting NHL players at the end of the season. Tarasenko did in fact have surgery, which means that he needed surgery in the SC playoffs but put it off to compete for St. Louis. I haven't heard about surgery for anyone else, which means they just wanted a "rest." They had 12 to 14 days to rest before joining the national team, so I interpret as largely being disinterested in going through everything involved to join the team. Even Svechnikov's CHL management offered a confusing reason for why he was unable to join the U18 team. In any case, the lineup for 2018 suggests that there is a kind of black hole of talent available for the team.

Top level talent is always rare. We just fail to kepp the ones a tad below that on a proper development path. It's easier to blame the bad, bad russian coaches for not giving you ice time and run off to Canada to ultimately end up an AHLer. Only a few make the right choice for whatever reason.

I do not agree with asking players to play with minor injuries. In those situations they should decide on their own and I don't blame them. We have recently seen what it looks like when an injured Provorov or Panarin actually plays through pain. That is not helping the team.

Long term I want a russian league where most top notch Russians play. A U18 team in the MHL. Maybe eve a U20 or U23 team in the KHL(I know that's not very realistic). But again, change must start from the top at this stage. The managers assigned have proven their inability to achieve any goals short term and long term.

 

[MaxV]

A U20 team in VHL is realistic and a good idea imo.

Problem with VHL is that it often times doesn’t view itself as a develmental league.

 

[Planet Hockey]

Look, the major concern is the D. It's no secret the KHL defencemen are not good. And with even Voynov out it's a sad picture. And I doubt Zaytsev will save the day. We will likely see a D with the likes of Khafizullin on it. That's not good by any measure.

Without NHLers the top line will be Gusev - Dats - Kaprizov. The duo of Tkachyov and Buchnevich seems to have found chemistry. And that's about it. That is amazingly weak for the russian NT. I wonder why Vorobiev hasn't invited Zaripov and Mozyakin. Maybe there are grudges there from his firing in Magnitigorsk. No Kovalchuk. So no, this not even the best KHL has to offer.

I totally hear you. You know 500% more about the KHL than I do, and I appreciate the elaboration even if it's so much negative.

Of course the roster is disappointing compared to what could have been. I loved the brand of hockey the all-KHL team played at the OG, and think that squad alone could have been competitive in Denmark. But you are right ab the issues on defense etc. I'd add goalie as well if they're really going to ride Koshechkin the entire way.

Don't get the Mozyakin thing either, especially in these circumstances.

It's my nature to reject statements like "every position X player in league Y is bad." Bad by what standard? They're all the same and they all absolutely suck? It's not a video game from 1987. I know people try to keep things simple. My opinion is that Russia is still going to look like Russia, if they get blown out in the quarterfinals or miss them altogether then I'll be wrong.

 

[Khokhlach86]

final roster

Goalkeepers: Vasily Koshechkin (Metallurg), Ilya Sorokin (CSKA), Igor Shestyorkin (SKA).

Defenders: Nikita Nesterov, Bogdan Kiselevich (both CSKA), Nikita Zaitsev (Toronto), Vladislav Gavrikov, Dinar Khafizullin, Yegor Yakovlev (all - SKA), Alexey Bereglazov (Metallurgist), Nikita Tryamkin (Automobilist) .

Forwards: Pavel Datsyuk, Nikita Gusev, Alexander Barabanov, Ilya Kablukov (all - SKA), Kirill Kaprizov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Sergey Andronov, Maxim Shalunov (all - CSKA), Evgeny Dadonov, Maxim Mamin (both of Florida), Artem Anisimov (Chicago), Pavel Buchnevich (Rangers), Nikita Soshnikov (St. Louis), Alexey Byvaltsev (Amur), Ilya Mikheev (Avangard).

 

[migi]

Shalunov didnt show up in EHT and I think Tkachyov was excellent?

Odd team.

 

[Khokhlach86]

Gusev will miss the first games of the WC - illness

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