Speculation: Wayne Simmonds

[deadhead]

I'm quite sure Hextall and Hakstol discussed Sanheim's progress on numerous occasions and were in agreement - this fantasy that Hakstol won't play the guys Hextall gives him is abject nonsense made up by people who want to fire Hakstol and keep Hextall.

Hextall is conservative with player development, Laughton was sent back to the AHL by Hextall after playing a full NHL season. The guys who stick are either solid two way players, Provorov, Patrick and now Lindblom, or productive enough offensively to live through their growing pains, Konecny and Ghost. Hextall has focused on high IQ players who play two way hockey in the draft, so I'd expect him to look for similar players in trades.

The top six seems to be set, so if they pick up a player for Simmonds, it'll be a 22-23 year old 3rd line forward with speed and some offensive upside but solid defensive fundamentals - someone similar to NAK or this year's version of Laughton.

 

[Hakroach]

For the record - i dont agree with Hakstols decisions. But apparently Hextall does - or at the very least, hasnt shown any indication that he doesn't.

This.

Judging from his comments and lack of moves at the deadline, Hextall is satisfied with the current roster. From Hextall's and Hakstol's comments one could think that Hextall is more satisfied of the roster than Hakstol is. Granted what you say in public and what you really think can be two completely different things. Good old Bobby Clarke Media School in action.

 

[Starat327]

I'm quite sure Hextall and Hakstol discussed Sanheim's progress on numerous occasions and were in agreement - this fantasy that Hakstol won't play the guys Hextall gives him is abject nonsense made up by people who want to fire Hakstol and keep Hextall.

Hextall is conservative with player development, Laughton was sent back to the AHL by Hextall after playing a full NHL season. The guys who stick are either solid two way players, Provorov, Patrick and now Lindblom, or productive enough offensively to live through their growing pains, Konecny and Ghost. Hextall has focused on high IQ players who play two way hockey in the draft, so I'd expect him to look for similar players in trades.

The top six seems to be set, so if they pick up a player for Simmonds, it'll be a 22-23 year old 3rd line forward with speed and some offensive upside but solid defensive fundamentals - someone similar to NAK or this year's version of Laughton.

I honestly have trouble taking anything you say seriously.

Sanheim was on the roster for quite some time this year, and he made a mistake and then got benched for 7 games, or something like that. Only after being benched for 7 games did Hextall send him down. If they were aligned with his progression, he wouldnt have waited 7 games to send him down. He sent him down because it was clear Hakstol wasnt going to play him, and Hextall is smart enough to know that even if Sanheim has already outgrown the AHL, playing is better than not playing.

Hell, Hextall even mentioned that it was important for him to play in his reasoning for sending him down. Of course he isnt going to throw the coach under the bus, but its pretty clear to anyone who isnt a Hakstol apologist that the two are not aligned on Sanheim.

 

[eramosat]

I cannot imagine how this will all turn out.

But Hextall should already have a pretty good idea of what, and when, he wants to try. He simply could not have traded Schenn and his contract away without also knowing his preferred, possible chess moves involving Wayne, the cap, the roster and Cup contention. I'll leave it in his hands.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Interesting line up. I think Provorov is a little low, but probably balances out with a higher than expected Sanheim. - My concern there is that there is a lot of inexperience in the bottom 6.

I'd also be hard pressed to think Mrazek would accept less than his QO if we go on a playoff run, especially on a short term deal. Nicely done though.

Yea I did it pretty quickly. For whatever reason it’s not showing term. I have Provy 6x6 and Mrazek I gave 3 years. Assuming he’d take a little less then his QO in return for term. Even if I bumped Simmonds up to 6, I didn’t even take cap rising into account so we’d still be around 8 in space year after. Really good spot. One thing I noticed is Coots and Giroux deals expire at same time.

 

[deadhead]

I honestly have trouble taking anything you say seriously.

Sanheim was on the roster for quite some time this year, and he made a mistake and then got benched for 7 games, or something like that. Only after being benched for 7 games did Hextall send him down. If they were aligned with his progression, he wouldnt have waited 7 games to send him down. He sent him down because it was clear Hakstol wasnt going to play him, and Hextall is smart enough to know that even if Sanheim has already outgrown the AHL, playing is better than not playing.

Hell, Hextall even mentioned that it was important for him to play in his reasoning for sending him down. Of course he isnt going to throw the coach under the bus, but its pretty clear to anyone who isnt a Hakstol apologist that the two are not aligned on Sanheim.

Hextall may have been waiting to see if other defensemen were healthy.
If Hextall wanted Hakstol to play Sanheim he would have made that clear, he's not a blushing violet.
And if he wanted Sanheim back on the team he could have easily moved Manning for a later round pick, look at some of the trash defensemen that were moved for picks, Manning was better than some of them.

There is ZERO evidence that Hextall and Hakstol don't see eye to eye.
They both put a premium on disciplined two way play.

 

[Starat327]

Yea I did it pretty quickly. For whatever reason it’s not showing term. I have Provy 6x6 and Mrazek I gave 3 years. Assuming he’d take a little less then his QO in return for term. Even if I bumped Simmonds up to 6, I didn’t even take cap rising into account so we’d still be around 8 in space year after. Really good spot. One thing I noticed is Coots and Giroux deals expire at same time.

Like i said - looks much better than what i would have expected, kudos for that. My only big call out is the lack of experience int he bottom 6. I think Raffl sticks around, i like his versatility. I think @Appleyard or someone else did a nice write up for him on the athletic recently. Good read.

 

[Starat327]

Hextall may have been waiting to see if other defensemen were healthy.
If Hextall wanted Hakstol to play Sanheim he would have made that clear, he's not a blushing violet.
And if he wanted Sanheim back on the team he could have easily moved Manning for a later round pick, look at some of the trash defensemen that were moved for picks, Manning was better than some of them.

There is ZERO evidence that Hextall and Hakstol don't see eye to eye.
They both put a premium on disciplined two way play.

The world must be so much simpler when you are oblivious to everything you don't want to see.

 

[Appleyard]

Like i said - looks much better than what i would have expected, kudos for that. My only big call out is the lack of experience int he bottom 6. I think Raffl sticks around, i like his versatility. I think @Appleyard or someone else did a nice write up for him on the athletic recently. Good read.

It was on SOP... so free to read. (though the Athletic is worth paying for. )

Michael Raffl has flown under the radar as one of the best third-line wingers in the league

And yeh, I think Raffl is a close to ideal '#9' forward on a contender. Such a 'moneypuck' player.

 

[Starat327]

It was on SOP... so free to read. (though the Athletic is worth paying for. )

Michael Raffl has flown under the radar as one of the best third-line wingers in the league

And yeh, I think Raffl is a close to ideal '#9' forward on a contender. Such a 'moneypuck' player.

Ah, was fairly certain it was yours, just wasnt sure which site it was on. Thanks!

 

[SchatzY]

If they do decide to get rid of Simmonds I would try and pry Jenner out of Columbus. He could play up it down the line up and bring a similar style that we would lose getting rid of Simmonds. He would fit here nicely with his age and I believe his contract is up at the end of the year.

 

[Oskar Man]

How does resigning him get us in trouble when we’ll have more than enough cap space? If we were against the cap that logic would apply. But we won’t be for a very long time. It’s a non factor.

Yeah we have the space now, but what about when Provorov, Konecny, Patrick, etc etc. need new deals?

I don't see the point in spending the money now because they have it, when we all know he's going to get paid and his deal will be an anchor in 3-4 years. Look I love Simmer as much as the next guy, but the reality is he's 3rd line RW at even strength whose only real value is on the PP. Be honest, have you really noticed a difference in the team since his injury? I haven't, albeit a small sample size.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Yeah we have the space now, but what about when Provorov, Konecny, Patrick, etc etc. need new deals?

I don't see the point in spending the money now because they have it, when we all know he's going to get paid and his deal will be an anchor in 3-4 years. Look I love Simmer as much as the next guy, but the reality is he's 3rd line RW at even strength whose only real value is on the PP. Be honest, have you really noticed a difference in the team since his injury? I haven't, albeit a small sample size.

Ghost just signed a 6 year deal, his next one will be a big one. Same for couturier. Same probably for Provorov and Patrick. Simmonds will be close to the end by then.

 

[Magua]

That's the sloppy thinking I expect from Striiker, not you.
Yes, Hextall values intangibles, but WHICH intangibles?

Simmonds has some, he's a team player, tough, will go to the net and take the punishment.
But what intangible is highest on the Hextall list?
Hockey IQ - and that is not Simmonds' strong point.
He simply doesn't have a good feel for defense and back checking 5x5.

As far as just "talent," Simmonds can skate without the puck but is a below average puck handler which slows down his effective skating, nor does he have either Konecny's burst or hands, so he can't create open ice scoring opportunities.

With Patrick filling out this summer, and the addition of Lindblom, Simmonds' value to this team has declined.

To say Hextall doesn't highly value qualities like veteran experience, locker room presence, reliability, character is incorrect. Skills and hockey IQ aren't lumped in as "intangibles." We can generally measure those by proxy. Now, I'm not saying those things are wrong to value; I just think he has a habit of overvaluing them in spite of more important deficiencies, not that he is unique in that among Hockey Guys.

To me, the Simmonds signing will simply come down to those intangibles I listed. He will fear it will create a hole that cannot be filled in the locker room. As we always here, "Every playoff team would want a Wayne Simmonds!" He already traded a younger, higher plausible upside player with more contract certainty in Schenn for 2 picks and a camp dump. Did it without batting an eye. Simmonds and Schenn, in their tenure here, were rather similar players. They just were. Except Simmonds has almost mythologized intangibles, or that's the perception for this team and league-wide. Schenn just has (in)Lunchables.

We shall see what happens with Simmonds. But if he is re-signed, I am skeptical it's a cut and dry on-ice evaluation, which should make re-signing him a rather obvious, "No." But as he is wont to do, perhaps Hextall will underrate his replaceability and overvalue his performance as a player too.

 

[Oskar Man]

Ghost just signed a 6 year deal, his next one will be a big one. Same for couturier. Same probably for Provorov and Patrick. Simmonds will be close to the end by then.

Understood. In my opinion, Simmonds's game is a facade. He really isn't as valuable as his perceived value, kind of like Toews. He can easily be replaced at even strength, both offensively and defensively, and it appears as though we have in house options to somewhat fill his role on PP1.

I just view his upcoming deal as one that only bad GM's will dish out. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We cannot trade Simmer until we have a surefire replacement. Lindblom haven't proved it yet.

You basically have to replace his PP production. As 5v5 he’s basically giving you 3rd-4th line quality play there.

 

[Magua]

It's why this 2-3 week Nolan Patrick audition is great. Simmonds was a wreck early on but never sat out. Now he is, and we're seeing it might be possible for Patrick to replace him next year. He's scored, but he seems to be filling the role well in movements and positioning. And he is super talented; of course he can fill that role, and it has his name on it long-term. I don't want Simmonds needlessly blocking it for 6-7 years.

I'm not saying he will replicate all PP production right away, but perhaps an acceptable level and more than that with time. He also has more playmaking potential behind the net as he grows into the role and makes it his own. In the end, the PP is still run through Giroux, Ghost, and whoever will replace Jake.

 

[Appleyard]

You basically have to replace his PP production. As 5v5 he’s basically giving you 3rd-4th line quality play there.

Yeh, up until the end of 2015-16 he was a bondafide 2nd line forward at 5v5... but last two years he has been bottom six level. (though tbf to him away from Flip he has been ~2nd line level this year, albeit lower end.)

 

[Juicy Pop]

I can't see a future in which Hextall elects to keep Simmonds given that he's arguably made the harder call to ship Schenn out for futures.

I think another 1st and prospect is worth more to Hexy than it is to add marginal ES value to the 3rd line.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I can't see a future in which Hextall elects to keep Simmonds given that he's arguably made the harder call to ship Schenn out for futures.

I think another 1st and prospect is worth more to Hexy than it is to add marginal ES value to the 3rd line.

I think it should have been harder to trade Schenn, but I think Hexy is going to have a harder time dealing Simmer. I don't think Hexy valued Schenn that much or ever really saw him in his plans moving forward (because my memory is garbage, I can't remember the specific things that pointed that out to me, but I remember that there were several "signs") - I think he values those things in Simmer that everyone has mentioned above and is really going to have to convince himself to let him go. I think he will get there in the end, and I desperately hope he does, but I think it's going to be a struggle.

 

[Striiker]

That's the sloppy thinking I expect from Striiker, not you.

Hey, remind me, is Konecny a top 9 player or not?

There is ZERO evidence that Hextall and Hakstol don't see eye to eye.

Sure there is, you just don't like it.

 

[Chinatown88]

Did you watch Mad Men @Striiker?

 

[Striiker]

Did you watch Mad Men @Striiker?

Finished it a couple months ago.

I'd give it a 7/10 probably. Good show, definitely worth the watch.

 

[Chinatown88]

Finished it a couple months ago.

I'd give it a 7/10 probably. Good show, definitely worth the watch.

Okay we can remain friends. I was worried it fell under the banner of movies you've never seen.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Lindblom + TKs success and Patricks ability to take Simmers spot on the PP really should allow Hextall to move him this summer.

However, Hextall really seems to put a lot of stock in the locker room presence, leadership, character traits a player brings...areas Simmomds excels in....so I really dont know what to expect.