Wayne Gretzky's 4 on 4 scoring before the Gretzky rule | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Wayne Gretzky's 4 on 4 scoring before the Gretzky rule

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overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
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For the 1985-86 season, the NHL changed the rulebook to keep the same number of players on the ice when teams took coincidental minor penalties. Prior to this season, both teams went down a man in this situation. The change was made because Wayne Gretzky and the Edmonton Oilers were too dominant in 4-on-4 and 4-on-3 situations, to the point they would seek them out by trying to draw coincidental minors.

How much did Gretzky actually score in these situations? Previously I posted in the threads below that 16 of Gretzky's 62 playoff goals from 80-81 through 84-85 were with 8 or fewer skaters on the ice. 9 were at 4-on-4, and 7 were in various situations where at least 1 team had 3 skaters on the ice.


Now I've gone through Gretzky's scoring logs and box scores from 1981-82 through 1984-85 to identify how many of his points were scored at 4-on-4 and in other unusual situations (i.e. not 5-on-5, 5-on-4, 4-on-5). Here are the numbers.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Gretzky 1981-82[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
64​
[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
135​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
14​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
92​
[/TD]

[TD]
120​
[/TD]

[TD]
212​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Gretzky 1982-83[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
115​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
30​
[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
11​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
125​
[/TD]

[TD]
196​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Gretzky 1983-84[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
49​
[/TD]

[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]
118​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
14​
[/TD]

[TD]
23​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
11​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
87​
[/TD]

[TD]
118​
[/TD]

[TD]
205​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Gretzky 1984-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
85​
[/TD]

[TD]
132​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
29​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
14​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
73​
[/TD]

[TD]
135​
[/TD]

[TD]
208​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Gretzky 81-82 to 84-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
200​
[/TD]

[TD]
300​
[/TD]

[TD]
500​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
53​
[/TD]

[TD]
110​
[/TD]

[TD]
163​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
32​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]

[TD]
56​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]

[TD]
34​
[/TD]

[TD]
55​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
25​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
323​
[/TD]

[TD]
498​
[/TD]

[TD]
821​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Over these 4 seasons, Gretzky scored 21 goals and 55 points at 4-on-4. He also scored 17 goals and 47 points in 5-on-3, 4-on-3, 3-on-3, and 3-on-4 situations, mostly in 4-on-3.

How does this compare to other top scorers? I compiled the same stats for the #2 and #3 scorers of this time period, Mike Bossy and Peter Stastny.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Bossy 1981-82[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
93​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
14​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
64​
[/TD]

[TD]
83​
[/TD]

[TD]
147​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Bossy 1982-83[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
41​
[/TD]

[TD]
34​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]

[TD]
18​
[/TD]

[TD]
33​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
58​
[/TD]

[TD]
118​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Bossy 1983-84[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
85​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
20​
[/TD]

[TD]
25​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
51​
[/TD]

[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]
118​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Bossy 1984-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
78​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
14​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
58​
[/TD]

[TD]
59​
[/TD]

[TD]
117​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Bossy 81-82 to 84-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
164​
[/TD]

[TD]
167​
[/TD]

[TD]
331​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
48​
[/TD]

[TD]
77​
[/TD]

[TD]
125​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
23​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
11​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
233​
[/TD]

[TD]
267​
[/TD]

[TD]
500​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Stastny 1981-82[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
81​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
46​
[/TD]

[TD]
93​
[/TD]

[TD]
139​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Stastny 1982-83[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
45​
[/TD]

[TD]
83​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
25​
[/TD]

[TD]
30​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
77​
[/TD]

[TD]
124​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Stastny 1983-84[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
33​
[/TD]

[TD]
52​
[/TD]

[TD]
85​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
46​
[/TD]

[TD]
73​
[/TD]

[TD]
119​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Stastny 1984-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
23​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
66​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
6​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
32​
[/TD]

[TD]
68​
[/TD]

[TD]
100​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Stastny 81-82 to 84-85[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
118​
[/TD]

[TD]
197​
[/TD]

[TD]
315​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]

[TD]
92​
[/TD]

[TD]
129​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
4​
[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
5​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
7​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-3[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-4[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
2​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3-on-5[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]

[TD]
0​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]
171​
[/TD]

[TD]
311​
[/TD]

[TD]
482​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And here are the overall scoring stats by situation for this 4 season stretch. Gretzky was most dominant in 4-on-5 scoring, partly because he was the best shorthanded scorer of all time, and partly because Bossy and Stastny rarely played in this situation. Leaving that aside, when looking at 4-on-4 and other situations with 8 or fewer skaters on the ice, Gretzky scored 1.5 times as many points as Bossy and Stastny combined.

It's not hard to see why other teams wanted to change the rules. And yet, he still set the league record for points the very next season and won two more Stanley Cups with the Oilers.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]200[/TD]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]164[/TD]
[TD]167[/TD]
[TD]331[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]118[/TD]
[TD]197[/TD]
[TD]315[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]110[/TD]
[TD]163[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]125[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[TD]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Other[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]323[/TD]
[TD]498[/TD]
[TD]821[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]267[/TD]
[TD]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]171[/TD]
[TD]311[/TD]
[TD]482[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
Here's the full list of regular season points by Gretzky from 1981-82 through 1984-85 that weren't 5-on-5, 5-on-4, or 4-on-5.
DateTmOppPTimeDescriptionState
EDM@NYR26:57PPGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Matti Hagman4-on-3
EDM@NYR219:04PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Risto Siltanen and Paul Coffey5-on-3
EDM@BOS36:38PPGoal by Matti Hagman, assisted by Paul Coffey and Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDM@STL315:49EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Mark Messier and Glenn Anderson4-on-4
EDMVAN31:29PPGoal by Dave Lumley, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Mike Forbes4-on-3
EDMVAN315:27PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Dave Lumley and Dave Semenko4-on-3
EDMCBH115:11EVGoal by Doug Hicks, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@MTL219:07EVGoal by Glenn Anderson, assisted by Dave Hunter and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@QUE214:48PPGoal by Risto Siltanen, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDM@LAK28:06PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Kevin Lowe and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDMPHI113:49PPGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Risto Siltanen and Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDMCLR214:10PPGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Grant Fuhr4-on-3
EDMCGY118:09EVGoal by Dave Lumley, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDM@DET30:30PPGoal by Pat Hughes, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Glenn Anderson4-on-4
EDMSTL19:04EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Garry Lariviere4-on-4
EDMNYR117:38EVGoal by Lee Fogolin, assisted by Dave Hunter and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMMNS212:50EVGoal by Kevin Lowe, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMHAR39:56EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Mark Messier4-on-4
EDM@PIT110:52PPGoal by Glenn Anderson, assisted by Paul Coffey and Wayne Gretzky5-on-3
EDM@WSH39:47SHGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky3-on-4
EDM@QUE35:00EVGoal by Risto Siltanen, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMVAN25:37PPGoal by Risto Siltanen, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri5-on-3
EDMVAN38:28PPGoal by Kevin Lowe, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri5-on-3
EDMPIT311:33EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDM@CGY111:21PPGoal by Dave Semenko, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Risto Siltanen5-on-3
EDM@LAK31:50EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Glenn Anderson4-on-4
EDMWIN110:00PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Glenn Anderson5-on-3
EDMNYI118:59EVGoal by Glenn Anderson, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@VAN111:53EVGoal by Dave Hunter, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Pat Hughes4-on-4
EDM@CGY29:13PPGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Wayne Gretzky5-on-3
EDMBOS318:52PPGoal by Pat Hughes, assisted by Tom Roulston and Wayne Gretzky5-on-3
EDM@WIN16:19EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky3-on-3
EDM@QUE20:35PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Dave Lumley4-on-3
EDM@NYR213:01PPGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky5-on-3
EDMQUE211:02EVGoal by Charlie Huddy, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDMWSH112:34PPGoal by Ken Linseman, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Randy Gregg4-on-3
EDM@WIN117:10EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Lee Fogolin4-on-4
EDM@WIN117:42EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Randy Gregg4-on-4
EDM@WIN37:01EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Jaroslav Pouzar4-on-4
EDMNJD15:46PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDMLAK310:12EVGoal by Randy Gregg, assisted by Jari Kurri and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMMTL111:52EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMQUE317:23EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDM@PIT210:48EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDM@PIT215:47EVGoal by Kevin Lowe, assisted by Wayne Gretzky3-on-3
EDM@CGY316:05EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Charlie Huddy3-on-3
EDM@TOR110:53EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDM@BOS114:15EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Kevin Lowe and Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDM@TOR23:14PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Charlie Huddy4-on-3
EDM@WIN311:50EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Glenn Anderson4-on-4
EDM@WIN29:56SHGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Lee Fogolin and Jari Kurri3-on-4
EDMDET119:29PPGoal by Kevin Lowe, assisted by Wayne Gretzky5-on-3
EDM@WIN211:40SHGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri3-on-4
EDM@WIN217:45EVGoal by Kevin Lowe, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@QUE213:50EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Charlie Huddy4-on-4
EDMBUF319:28EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMWIN213:32PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri5-on-3
EDM@STL36:26EVGoal by Don Jackson, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Randy Gregg4-on-4
EDM@STL37:12EVGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@WIN17:43PPGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Glenn Anderson4-on-3
EDMWIN319:41SHGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Mark Messier and Paul Coffey3-on-4
EDMCGY31:22EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Paul Coffey and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@CGY20:21EVGoal by Charlie Huddy, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDM@CGY118:54EVGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@CGY119:38EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Jari Kurri and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMMNS118:20EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDMMNS118:58EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Charlie Huddy and Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDMMNS212:46PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Mark Messier4-on-3
EDM@NJD21:45PPGoal by Charlie Huddy, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDMVAN16:30EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Don Jackson and Grant Fuhr3-on-3
EDMVAN117:56EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDMPIT217:45EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Charlie Huddy4-on-4
EDM@STL118:57PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Mark Messier4-on-3
EDM@PIT35:34EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDMCBH314:25EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDMNYR218:36PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Grant Fuhr4-on-3
EDMLAK36:20PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri4-on-3
EDMSTL24:28PPGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Ken Linseman4-on-3
EDMWIN116:56EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey and Glenn Anderson4-on-4
EDMBOS312:51EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDM@WIN318:39EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Charlie Huddy4-on-4
EDM@PHI20:57PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDM@TOR25:57EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Mike Krushelnyski and Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDM@BOS211:12EVGoal by Glenn Anderson, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Randy Gregg4-on-4
EDM@HAR36:57EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Don Jackson and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@LAK118:47EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri and Paul Coffey4-on-4
EDM@STL18:23EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@STL215:32EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Jari Kurri4-on-4
EDMDET114:56PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDMLAK317:12EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Lee Fogolin4-on-4
EDMCGY20:58PPGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri5-on-3
EDM@NYR316:54EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Charlie Huddy4-on-4
EDM@PHI23:58EVGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDM@PHI213:55EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Charlie Huddy and Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@CGY113:26PPGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Paul Coffey4-on-3
EDMDET16:53PPGoal by Mark Messier, assisted by Glenn Anderson and Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDM@LAK29:43PPGoal by Mike Krushelnyski, assisted by Jari Kurri and Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDMCBH35:25EVGoal by Jari Kurri, assisted by Wayne Gretzky and Kevin Lowe4-on-4
EDMTOR36:32SHGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Mark Messier and Kevin Lowe3-on-4
EDM@HAR31:30EVGoal by Paul Coffey, assisted by Wayne Gretzky4-on-4
EDM@CBH36:46PPGoal by Charlie Huddy, assisted by Paul Coffey and Wayne Gretzky4-on-3
EDMCGY12:40EVGoal by Wayne Gretzky, assisted by Paul Coffey3-on-3
 
Well, the 1983-84 Oilers' Short-handed scoring rate was higher than the Anaheim Ducks' Power-play rate a couple of years ago, I think...
It is hard to fully assess what to make of it. The oilers was a top team at killing penalty during that time so it was not at the big cost of anything.

Only the dynasty Islanders had a better penalty killing in that era when you consider the net goal total, they seem to have scored on the PK at around 6.4% rate, in 83-84 it was 9.5%, better than the 21 Ducks or 98 Lightning.

What does it mean in terms of ranking peak Gretzky in the list of the best forward on the PK in the history of the league.
 
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Watching the Edmonton - Winnipeg game the other day, it struck me how rare it is to see coincidental minor penalties called nowadays. Maybe it happens now and again, but it seems pretty rare. Like, if they bother to call a penalty nowadays, it's always to give one team or the other an advantage.

When I was kid (80s/90s), coincidental minors seemed to be called all the time.
 
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For the 1985-86 season, the NHL changed the rulebook to keep the same number of players on the ice when teams took coincidental minor penalties. Prior to this season, both teams went down a man in this situation. The change was made because Wayne Gretzky and the Edmonton Oilers were too dominant in 4-on-4 and 4-on-3 situations, to the point they would seek them out by trying to draw coincidental minors.

How much did Gretzky actually score in these situations? Previously I posted in the threads below that 16 of Gretzky's 62 playoff goals from 80-81 through 84-85 were with 8 or fewer skaters on the ice. 9 were at 4-on-4, and 7 were in various situations where at least 1 team had 3 skaters on the ice.


Now I've gone through Gretzky's scoring logs and box scores from 1981-82 through 1984-85 to identify how many of his points were scored at 4-on-4 and in other unusual situations (i.e. not 5-on-5, 5-on-4, 4-on-5). Here are the numbers.



Over these 4 seasons, Gretzky scored 21 goals and 55 points at 4-on-4. He also scored 17 goals and 47 points in 5-on-3, 4-on-3, 3-on-3, and 3-on-4 situations, mostly in 4-on-3.

How does this compare to other top scorers? I compiled the same stats for the #2 and #3 scorers of this time period, Mike Bossy and Peter Stastny.




And here are the overall scoring stats by situation for this 4 season stretch. Gretzky was most dominant in 4-on-5 scoring, partly because he was the best shorthanded scorer of all time, and partly because Bossy and Stastny rarely played in this situation. Leaving that aside, when looking at 4-on-4 and other situations with 8 or fewer skaters on the ice, Gretzky scored 1.5 times as many points as Bossy and Stastny combined.

It's not hard to see why other teams wanted to change the rules. And yet, he still set the league record for points the very next season and won two more Stanley Cups with the Oilers.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-5[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]200[/TD]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]164[/TD]
[TD]167[/TD]
[TD]331[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]118[/TD]
[TD]197[/TD]
[TD]315[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5-on-4[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]110[/TD]
[TD]163[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]125[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[TD]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-5[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4-on-4[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Other[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]323[/TD]
[TD]498[/TD]
[TD]821[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bossy[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]267[/TD]
[TD]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stastny[/TD]
[TD]171[/TD]
[TD]311[/TD]
[TD]482[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
amazing work, again.

So, as the next season probably indicates, by removing 4 on 4 time, he would have simply gotten more 5 on 5 time and done roughly as well.

15 points per year back then at 4 on 4. Probably would have got 10 of those if it was always at 5 on 5.

I would have thought that Stastny would have been more of a 4 on 4 producer. Bossy never struck me as fast. I wonder about Dionne... he was likely the fastest of the good forwards around in that day?
 
Watching the Edmonton - Winnipeg game the other day, it struck me how rare it is to see coincidental minor penalties called nowadays. Maybe it happens now and again, but it seems pretty rare. Like, if they bother to call a penalty nowadays, it's always to give one team or the other an advantage.

When I was kid (80s/90s), coincidental minors seemed to be called all the time.
that might be worth an investigation, actually. One thing I notice when looking back at those players is how many 'real' players (not goons) had 200 or even 300+ PIMs. One would think that it was powerplay after powerplay, but i dont think it was... at least i dont remember it that way... so, you may be very correct.
 
Here are the stats for Marcel Dionne in those seasons.

Marcel Dionne 81-82GAP
5-on-5
29​
37​
66​
5-on-4
14​
22​
36​
5-on-3
1​
3​
4​
4-on-5
1​
0​
1​
4-on-4
3​
4​
7​
4-on-3
2​
1​
3​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
0​
0​
0​
3-on-5
0​
0​
0​
Total
50​
67​
117​


Marcel Dionne 82-83GAP
5-on-5
38​
27​
65​
5-on-4
14​
20​
34​
5-on-3
0​
1​
1​
4-on-5
0​
1​
1​
4-on-4
1​
2​
3​
4-on-3
2​
0​
2​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
0​
0​
0​
3-on-5
1​
0​
1​
Total
56​
51​
107​


Marcel Dionne 83-84GAP
5-on-5
25​
33​
58​
5-on-4
10​
18​
28​
5-on-3
0​
1​
1​
4-on-5
0​
0​
0​
4-on-4
1​
1​
2​
4-on-3
3​
0​
3​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
0​
0​
0​
3-on-5
0​
0​
0​
Total
39​
53​
92​


Marcel Dionne 84-85GAP
5-on-5
27​
34​
61​
5-on-4
14​
32​
46​
5-on-3
1​
3​
4​
4-on-5
0​
3​
3​
4-on-4
2​
6​
8​
4-on-3
1​
2​
3​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
0​
0​
0​
3-on-5
1​
0​
1​
Total
46​
80​
126​


Marcel Dionne 81-82 to 84-85GAP
5-on-5
119​
131​
250​
5-on-4
52​
92​
144​
5-on-3
2​
8​
10​
4-on-5
1​
4​
5​
4-on-4
7​
13​
20​
4-on-3
8​
3​
11​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
0​
0​
0​
3-on-5
2​
0​
2​
Total
191​
251​
442​

Dionne, at least for these seasons, was behind Bossy and Stastny at 5-on-5. He was in the same range as them for 4-on-4 and 4-on-3 scoring, also far behind Gretzky.

At 5-on-4 and 5-on-3 he was ahead of Bossy and Stastny, and approached Gretzky’s numbers.

Like Bossy and Stastny he didn’t do a lot of penalty killing or shorthanded scoring in these four seasons, but he did have two 3-on-5 goals.
 
Because the league went back to 4-on-4 play for coincidental minors in the 1992-93 season, I decided to see how Mario Lemieux’s great 92-93 season broke down.

Mario Lemieux 92-93GAP
5-on-5
44​
47​
91​
5-on-4
16​
34​
50​
5-on-3
0​
3​
3​
4-on-5
5​
3​
8​
4-on-4
3​
3​
6​
4-on-3
0​
1​
1​
3-on-3
0​
0​
0​
3-on-4
1​
0​
1​
3-on-5
0​
0​
0​
Total
69​
91​
160​

Mario’s 4-on-4 and 4-on-3 scoring from this season didn’t stand out like prime Gretzky’s did. He did almost all of his scoring at 5-on-5, 5-on-4, and 4-on-5.

I didn’t track the numbers but after looking at a bunch of box scores, I would agree that coincidental minors were less common in 92-93 than in the early-mid 80s. It was pretty common in the 80s for two players to each get two minutes for roughing or something. In 92-93, coincidental penalties seemed more likely to be majors.
 
I actually look at these numbers last year during my deep statistical analysis of Gretzky and Lemieux's peaks. Ultimately I decided not to include them in there because I had already posted a ridiculous amount of data and they seem the least relevant.

It's probably due to ice time; presumably there would be a lot more of it 4 on 5.
Got those numbers.

Not only did I compile Gretzky's numbers but I compiled the Oilers team 4v4 totals as well. Since Overpass already posted Gretzky's individual stats here I won't repeat his numbers only the Oilers totals which I posted in this thread:
 
Some interesting data in here...

Even Strength totals are often used to demonstrate the strength of a players ability to score in "normal" game time situations. However, while 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 play both fulfill the technical definition of "even strength" it is also a game time situation where scoring levels are elevated, much like when a team is on a powerplay. Except in this case both teams are essentially on the powerplay - and they are in fact playing against 4 opponents, not 5.

To be sure, scoring levels are not quite as high as they are during a powerplay, they're somewhere in between which makes sense because the puck possession is much more evenly distributed during 4 on 4 play compared to 5 on 4. However this is also balanced out by the longer duration of 4 on 4 play. Unlike a powerplay, coincidental minors don't expire after a goal is scored by either team meaning their normal duration is 120 seconds. The average powerplay in comparison last at least 20 seconds less - last season the average length was 98.53 seconds (13232 total PP minutes divided by 8058 opportunities). The higher the efficiency the shorter the average powerplay length is, meaning it was even shorter still(by a couple seconds) during the high PP% seasons of the 80's.

Here is the list of all the 90+ point "Even Strength" seasons in NHL history. This list should in fact be discarded because it includes totals accumulated in higher than normal scoring situations.
147 - Gretzky '82
146 - Gretzky '85
143 - Gretzky '86
135 - Gretzky '84
132 - Gretzky '83
124 - Gretzky '87
104 - Lafleur '77
104 - Gretzky '81
103 - Gretzky '91
102 - Lemieux '89
101 - Kurri '85
101 - Yzerman '89
100 - Gretzky '89
100 - Gretzky '80
100 - Bossy '82
99 - Esposito '71
99 - Esposito '74
96 - Lemieux '93
96 - Gretzky '90
95 - Jagr '96
93 - Hodge '71
91 - Gretzky '88
91 - Dionne '80
90 - Bossy '84
90 - Stastny '83
90 - Trottier '79
90 - Coffey '87
90 - Gaudreau '22

Here is that same list with 4v4 and 3v3 points removed(totals for which in brackets). This gives a truer account of players production at normal strength:

80 37-102-139 - Gretzky '86 (4)
80 64-71-135 - Gretzky '82 (12)
80 47-85-132 - Gretzky '85 (15)
79 40-81-121 - Gretzky '87 (3)
74 49-69-118 - Gretzky '84 (17) prorates to 53G 127.5Pts
80 40-75-115 - Gretzky '83 (16)
78 32-69-101 - Gretzky '91 (2)
80 45-56-101 - Yzerman '89 (0)
74 40-60-100 - Lemieux '89 (2)
80 40-58-98 - Lafleur '77 (6)
78 49-48-97 - Esposito '74 (2)
78 50-46-96 - Esposito '71 (3)
79 36-60-96 - Gretzky '80 (4)
73 26-69-95 - Gretzky '90 (1)
78 44-51-95 - Lafleur '78 (1)
78 36-59-95 - Gretzky '89 (5)
80 43-50-93 - Bossy '82 (7)
82 40-53-93 - Jagr '96 (2)
80 34-58-92 - Gretzky '81 (12)
60 44-47-91 - Lemieux '93 (6) prorates to 59G 121Pts
73 50-40-90 - Kurri '85 (11) prorates to 55G
78 36-53-89 - Hodge '71 (4)
64 25-64-89 - Gretzky '88 (2) prorates to 111Pts
80 35-53-88 - Dionne '80 (3)
79 30-57-87 - Coffey '87 (3)
76 29-57-86 - Trottier '79 (4)
68 42-43-85 - Bossy '84 (5) prorates to 100Pts
80 33-52-85 - Stastny '84 (2)
82 32-52-84 - Gaudreau '22 (6)
75 38-45-83 - Stastny '83 (6)

Instead of having 15 100 Point ES seasons we now only have 9. With only three 50 goal seasons instead of 6 from those on the list - There were 4 more 50+ ES goal seasons I didn't look into; Hull(57), Selanne(52), Shutt(51) and Leach's(51). Hull is almost a given to still have the second highest ES total since he didn't have the benefit of large amounts of 4 on 4 play that season, the others are not so safe however.

Gretzky's 17 4 on 4(& 3 on 3) pts in 83-84 is almost certainly the record, while Kurri's 11 in 84-85 is very likely to be the most by anyone else. Gaudreau had 4 3v3 points in 21-22 which might be the record for 3v3 points. It appears that Johnny does indeed have the single season record(tied) for 3 on 3 points but not from that seasons but rather 2015-16, with a total of 7. Remarkably Yzerman appeared to not have a single 4v4 or 3v3 point in 88-89.
 
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Those Lafleur seasons are they the worst point total/5v5 points ratio ever for an top scorer ?

To note the Top 6 season here are all consecutive for Gretzky, no one did or will do this 1-2-3-4-5.. 6 time in a row (or even get particularly close to do this, all in a 14%+ margin).
 
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Those Lafleur seasons are they the worst point total/5v5 points ratio ever for an top scorer ?

By worst do you mean highest ratio of 5v5 pts to total points? Suppose that depend if one considers 105 pts to be enough for a top scorer. But for Art Ross winners it is indeed Lafleur.

64.7% 139/215 - Gretzky '86
63.7% 135/212 - Gretzky '82
63.5% 132/208 - Gretzky '85
66.1% 121/183 - Gretzky '87
57.6% 118/205 - Gretzky '84
58.7% 115/196 - Gretzky '83
62.0% 101/163 - Gretzky '91
65.2% 101/155 - Yzerman '89
50.3% 100/199 - Lemieux '89
72.1% 98/136 - Lafleur '77
66.9% 97/145 - Esposito '74
63.2% 96/152 - Esposito '71
70.1% 96/137 - Gretzky '80
66.9% 95/142 - Gretzky '90
72.0% 95/132 - Lafleur '78
56.5% 95/168 - Gretzky '89
63.3% 93/147 - Bossy '82
62.4% 93/149 - Jagr '96
56.1% 92/164 - Gretzky '81
56.9% 91/160 - Lemieux '93
66.7% 90/135 - Kurri '85
84.8% 89/105 - Hodge '71
59.7% 89/149 - Gretzky '88
64.2% 88/137 - Dionne '80
63.0% 87/138 - Coffey '86 (not 87!)
64.2% 86/134 - Trottier '79
72.0% 85/118 - Bossy '84
71.4% 85/119 - Stastny '84
73.0% 84/115 - Gaudreau '22
66.9% 83/124 - Stastny '83

Hopefully people don't read too much into that though. Hodge and Gaudreau have the highest two percentages and they are literally by far the weakest two players on the entire list, no where near the caliber of the others. While Gretzky '84 and Lemieux '93 have two of the lowest ratios (57.6/56.9) but are pretty much universally acknowledged as the highest offensive level ever reached by anyone in NHL history.
 

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