Was Slovakia ever a powerhouse in international hockey?

[WarriorofTime]

Swiss was great this tournament, took several wins over better teams. Canada was a powerhouse on paper but was not impressing. crosby should have made it

Canada would have beat Switzerland 9 times out of 10 most likely. The Swiss were outshot 49-18 when they played.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Canada would have beat Switzerland 9 times out of 10 most likely. The Swiss were outshot 49-18 when they played.

alright then.

canada lost to finland, sweden won over finland.

canada won barely over czechs, sweden crushed czechs.

It still was Canada and all that implies in must win game, and Sweden knows what that means, and they would always take a game against the Swiss over Canada in that situation, don't kid yourself.

Canada was not exacty impressing against russia in the qf

 

[WarriorofTime]

alright then.

canada lost to finland, sweden won over finland.

canada won barely over czechs, sweden crushed czechs.


Canada was not exacty impressing against russia in the qf

I didn't say Canada would have beaten Sweden, just that Sweden preferred to face Switzerland compared to Canada, and despite Switzerland defeating Canada they were not viewed by the hockey world as being the more difficult Quarterfinals opponent. I don't know what is even debatable about this to be honest.

 

[jj cale]

alright then.

canada lost to finland, sweden won over finland.

canada won barely over czechs, sweden crushed czechs.


Canada was not exacty impressing against russia in the qf

It doesn't matter that they weren't impressing, we all know they weren't impressing..............it's still Canada, no way does anyone,let alone sweden of all teams( who have a horrible history of not being able to get it done against Canada in money games) not prefer to face Swiss in a must win elimination game at a best on best tournament.

you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise, seriously.

 

[Eye of Ra]

It doesn't matter that they weren't impressing, we all know they weren't impressing..............it's still Canada, no way does anyone,let alone sweden of all teams( who have a horrible history of not being able to get it done against Canada in money games) not prefer to face Swiss in a must win elimination game at a best on best tournament.

you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise, seriously.

Sweden won over canada in olympics 94 and almost did it in world cup 96.

also wc 2006 semifinals, canada with crosby lost to sweden

 

[jj cale]

Sweden won over canada in olympics 94 and almost did it in world cup 96.

also wc 2006 semifinals, canada with crosby lost to sweden

Wow, the 2006 WHC semi finals and olympics in 1994 with no NHl'ers, colour me impressed.

So? I can name you a million other times they flamed out against Canada, especially in big games.


You wouldn't want to check their historical record against Canada in those games, it wouldn't be flattering.

Canada is Swedens kryptonite, it's not a secret.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Wow, the 2006 WHC semi finals and olympics in 1994 with no NHl'ers, colour me impressed.

So? I can name you a million other times they flamed out against Canada, especially in big games.


You wouldn't want to check their historical record against Canada in those games, it wouldn't be flattering.

Canada is Swedens kryptonite, it's not a secret.

They count. Also recent olympics...we won.

 

[jj cale]

Sweden won over canada in olympics 94 and almost did it in world cup 96.

also wc 2006 semifinals, canada with crosby lost to sweden

So? I can name you a million other times they flamed out against Canada, especially in big games.


You wouldn't want to check their historical record against Canada in those games, it wouldn't be flattering.

They count. Also recent olympics...we won.

Who said they didn't count?

I really have to stop responding here, it will start to look like I am taking you seriously. Aren't you also the guy who had Sweden ranked outside the top 5 hockey nations?

You do this just for kicks or what? I find this to be an odd hobby for you to have.

 

[Eye of Ra]

So? I can name you a million other times they flamed out against Canada, especially in big games.


You wouldn't want to check their historical record against Canada in those games, it wouldn't be flattering.

Who said they didn't count?

I really have to stop responding here, it will start to look like I am taking you seriously. Aren't you also the guy who had Sweden ranked outside the top 5 hockey nations?

You do this just for kicks or what? I find this to be an odd hobby for you to have.

This thread is about Slovakia. Just stop.

 

[jj cale]

This thread is about Slovakia. Just stop.

You should try not talking about the Swiss then if you really want this.

 

[Rusty7550]

Not many people are mention this, but the biggest problem of Slovak hockey always been a coaching. I feel like our golden generation should accomplish more. We should win medal in Torino 2006. Great team, all our top players were at their primes, what happened in quarterfinals was unacceptable. Vancouver 2010 sucks too but in 2006, we should win some medal. IIHF 2007 was also a stacked team, almost Olympics team but again ... tactically unprepared.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not many people are mention this, but the biggest problem of Slovak hockey always been a coaching. I feel like our golden generation should accomplish more. We should win medal in Torino 2006. Great team, all our top players were at their primes, what happened in quarterfinals was unacceptable. Vancouver 2010 sucks too but in 2006, we should win some medal. IIHF 2007 was also a stacked team, almost Olympics team but again ... tactically unprepared.

It's not like the Czechs were some weak side in 2006. Similar nations with similar hockey trajectories for obvious reasons due to history, but Czech has about double the population, so you'd expect them to always be a bit better.

 

[Rusty7550]

It's not like the Czechs were some weak side in 2006. Similar nations with similar hockey trajectories for obvious reasons due to history, but Czech has about double the population, so you'd expect them to always be a bit better.

I never said they were weak. Czech Republic in early and mid 2000s was pain the ass. Something like NJ Devils during dead puck era. Just incredibly strong defensively. But what is more frustrating is the way how we lost that game. It seemed like our player were somewhere else in their heads. And Czechs performance wasn't even that good or dominant in that game but our players were somehow even worse.

 

[sr edler]

Having way more shots on goal is a indicator that that team is the better team and have more puck. Sweden was controlling the play.

Shots were equal (7 each) after the 1st period. Then 7–8 minutes into the 2nd period Slovaks score two quick goals, and then sits back on defense, not interested in attacking anymore. This is how Czechoslovak teams always played historically, much like Italy in soccer, if they get a lead they often sit back and waits for counter-attacks. In this game it initially came back to bite them a little bit in the ass because Sweden got back at 2-2, but then Demitra scores another PP goal with a minute to go of the 2nd period, on a terrific slap-shot, so the Slovaks go into the 3rd with the exact same mindset again of sitting back.

By the way, I looked at the boxscore and for some reason Sweden only dressed 11 forwards and didn't play the Sedins that much at all (13 minutes), giving Loui Eriksson 8 minutes in the 3rd period (most of all Swedish forwards). Forsberg was on his last legs this tournament too, though he did have an excellent typical Forsberg-assist on the first Swedish goal, and was involved in the second one too.

To your earlier point about Lundqvist sucking this game, I can perhaps agree a little bit on the last goal where he takes himself a little bit out of position and gives up a rebound, but still, that was after another 2-on-1 counter-attack and a scramble, where his D should clean a bit better in front of the net.

This game is on YT in excellent quality (though without any commentary), by the way, but I can't link to it here because of copyright. I didn't watch the whole game now, but from my brief looks it didn't look like Sweden created tons of high-danger chances. Conversely, in the semi-final against Canada, where the Slovaks fell behind 0-3, they had to open up more and came to fire more shots on net (21).

 

[WarriorofTime]

Agreed, Czech and Slovakia pretty much always played a trap and would dump the puck after center ice 98 % of the time. The Czechs won a world juniors in the early 2000s where they dumped the puck in regulation, they dumped the puck in overtime (0-0 after OT), and their opponents were doing the same. Had it been allowed they both probably have dumped the puck in the shootout as well. Missing the first period but

 

[Albatros]

define “full” and we are talking modern or historical? Let’s look at the WJC and WC teams from past 5 years.

WJC 2022: 1 Hungarian, 1 Ukrainian
WJC 2021: 1 Hungarian, 1 Ukrainian
WJC 2020: 1 Hungarian (maybe)
WJC 2019: 1 Hungarian
WJC 2018: 1 Hungarian

WC 2022: 1 Hungarian, 1 Croat
WC 2021: 1 Croat
WC 2020: Cancelled
WC 2019: 2 Hungarian, 1 half Czech
WC 2018: 2 Hungarian, 1 half Czech

Without committing to a more minute research, of the most recent roster at least Fehérváry, Tamáši, Lantoši are clearly Hungarian names.

 

[HamburgerSK]

Without committing to a more minute research, of the most recent roster at least Fehérváry, Tamáši, Lantoši are clearly Hungarian names.

There is no letter "š" in hungarian alphabet which suggests that although the names Tamáši or Lantoši are of hungarian origin they have been slovakized few generations ago. The same applies to most nations in central Europe in some or the other way. To count someone to an ethnic minority based on the origin of the name is simply wrong concept.

 

[HamburgerSK]

It’s hard to compare as Finland is much richer for both nation wide investment and citizens have more money to spend on sport. Also, Slovakia has 2 large minority communities that aren’t all that interested in hockey

This is unnecessarily controversial statement without any evidence. There is no statistics about ethnic identity of players so how can you proof your claim? Based on the first names of players that could give some hints about the ethnic identity I see a fair amount of players which possibly could belong to hungarian minority but as there is no statistics it remains speculative.

 

[Antiillafire]

This is unnecessarily controversial statement without any evidence. There is no statistics about ethnic identity of players so how can you proof your claim? Based on the first names of players that could give some hints about the ethnic identity I see a fair amount of players which possibly could belong to hungarian minority but as there is no statistics it remains speculative.

How is it controversial? Southern Slovakia has a significantly less interest in hockey than in the west or north. And Romani play and are interested in football to a much higher rate too. Of course there can be no statistics as no one is going to households and communities asking what sport they are most interested in?
This is merely a comparison to Finland where the largest minority community is Swedish, who are seen in Finnish representation to a much greater extent.

And as for the players on the team, I agree names don’t guarantee player demography/ethnicity. I am merely talking about popularity within community.

 

[Albatros]

There is no letter "š" in hungarian alphabet which suggests that although the names Tamáši or Lantoši are of hungarian origin they have been slovakized few generations ago. The same applies to most nations in central Europe in some or the other way. To count someone to an ethnic minority based on the origin of the name is simply wrong concept.

At times it has been mandated by law in Slovakia that all names must follow certain Slovak conventions, proper minority rights were really only installed by the EU upon accession in the 2000s. Most Central European countries have been open societies for much longer so that's not a valid comparison.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Shots were equal (7 each) after the 1st period. Then 7–8 minutes into the 2nd period Slovaks score two quick goals, and then sits back on defense, not interested in attacking anymore. This is how Czechoslovak teams always played historically, much like Italy in soccer, if they get a lead they often sit back and waits for counter-attacks. In this game it initially came back to bite them a little bit in the ass because Sweden got back at 2-2, but then Demitra scores another PP goal with a minute to go of the 2nd period, on a terrific slap-shot, so the Slovaks go into the 3rd with the exact same mindset again of sitting back.

By the way, I looked at the boxscore and for some reason Sweden only dressed 11 forwards and didn't play the Sedins that much at all (13 minutes), giving Loui Eriksson 8 minutes in the 3rd period (most of all Swedish forwards). Forsberg was on his last legs this tournament too, though he did have an excellent typical Forsberg-assist on the first Swedish goal, and was involved in the second one too.

To your earlier point about Lundqvist sucking this game, I can perhaps agree a little bit on the last goal where he takes himself a little bit out of position and gives up a rebound, but still, that was after another 2-on-1 counter-attack and a scramble, where his D should clean a bit better in front of the net.

This game is on YT in excellent quality (though without any commentary), by the way, but I can't link to it here because of copyright. I didn't watch the whole game now, but from my brief looks it didn't look like Sweden created tons of high-danger chances. Conversely, in the semi-final against Canada, where the Slovaks fell behind 0-3, they had to open up more and came to fire more shots on net (21).

Sedins where in their prime and still BÅG hardly played them. Just shows what a awful coach he was. With correct players choosen and a decent coach i think we would challenge canada in the finals. We had so many good players in 2010.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Often you see people mention "big 6" referring to USA, Canada, Finland, Russia, Czechia, Sweden.

But where not Slovakia a powerhouse from the 90s until around 2012? In my book they where when they had these players during this times such as:

...
Etc.

Hell i would put Slovakia over Finland from 90s to 2012. If comparing rosters.

OP, I was around for that golden era of Slovak players that you had listed out there, and they certainly had a plethora of wingers and great defensemen. As others have mentioned they certainly were worthy (and indeed did belong to) the top 7 powerhouses in the world at that time.

For the sake of a discussion though, I think while they did have very solid wings, defensemen and even a couple solid C's in Demitra and Handzus, the Finns as a whole were pretty underrated since they played more of a solid team game, and they had such a strong foundation in goalie with greats like Kiprusoff, Rinne, Lehtonen, Rask, etc. in their pipeline, so as someone who believes in building from the net out and getting the fundamentals down (on defense and up the middle) I think I would've bet on Finland if it was a best-on-best against the Slovaks of that era. Good point though, they definitely did belong in the upper echelon (maybe more second tier now with the Swiss and Germans, but still respectable).

 

[Ivo]

The problem was that the careers of some of these players barely overlapped. The peak for Slovak forwards was around 2002/2003. If healthy, they could put together at least two lines of first-line forwards and a third-line of second-liners and a fourth line of middle-six quality players. Just looking at the stats from that season (number in brackets indicates placement in the scoring race):

Demitra - 36+57 in 78 games (6)
Palffy - 37+48 in 76 games (10)
Hossa - 45+35 in 80 games (14)
Satan - 26+49 in 79 games (23)
Gaborik - 30+35 in 81 games (40)
Nagy - 22+35 in 80 games (67)
Bondra - 30+26 in 76 games (69)
Stumpel - 14+37 in 78 games (87)
Zednik - 31+19 in 80 games (89)
Handzus - 23+21 in 82 games (112)
Orsagh - 16+16 in 78 games (173)
Radivojevic - 12+15 in 79 games (209)

That's six 30-goal scorers in one season. They haven't had any in the past 8 years.

However, what D-corp and goalies could they play with these clearly top-level forwards?

Svehla in his last season. Chara before hitting his prime. Visnovsky before hitting his prime. Plus the likes of Ivan Majesky, Lubomir Sekeras, Radoslav Suchy and Brano Mezei. Best goalie: Jan Lasak.

By the time Slovakia got some NHL level goalies (Halak, Budaj) and a some more capable D (Meszaros, Sekera), half of that forward corps had either retired and kept on playing way-past their prime, usually in Euro leagues. And no one quite as good came from the pipeline. If you could pair that forward group with a D of prime Chara and Visnovsky, Sekera and Meszaros, with Halak in goal, that would count as a powerhouse team for me. But that didn't happen.

 

[Puck Dogg]

They had a very good national team during the time they won the Worlds in 2002. But they were never a power house to the true meaning of the word.

Currently I see small margins between Germany, Slovakia and Switzerland.

 

[Czechboy]

The problem was that the careers of some of these players barely overlapped. The peak for Slovak forwards was around 2002/2003. If healthy, they could put together at least two lines of first-line forwards and a third-line of second-liners and a fourth line of middle-six quality players. Just looking at the stats from that season (number in brackets indicates placement in the scoring race):

Demitra - 36+57 in 78 games (6)
Palffy - 37+48 in 76 games (10)
Hossa - 45+35 in 80 games (14)
Satan - 26+49 in 79 games (23)
Gaborik - 30+35 in 81 games (40)
Nagy - 22+35 in 80 games (67)
Bondra - 30+26 in 76 games (69)
Stumpel - 14+37 in 78 games (87)
Zednik - 31+19 in 80 games (89)
Handzus - 23+21 in 82 games (112)
Orsagh - 16+16 in 78 games (173)
Radivojevic - 12+15 in 79 games (209)

That's six 30-goal scorers in one season. They haven't had any in the past 8 years.

However, what D-corp and goalies could they play with these clearly top-level forwards?

Svehla in his last season. Chara before hitting his prime. Visnovsky before hitting his prime. Plus the likes of Ivan Majesky, Lubomir Sekeras, Radoslav Suchy and Brano Mezei. Best goalie: Jan Lasak.

By the time Slovakia got some NHL level goalies (Halak, Budaj) and a some more capable D (Meszaros, Sekera), half of that forward corps had either retired and kept on playing way-past their prime, usually in Euro leagues. And no one quite as good came from the pipeline. If you could pair that forward group with a D of prime Chara and Visnovsky, Sekera and Meszaros, with Halak in goal, that would count as a powerhouse team for me. But that didn't happen.

9 guys in top 90 is outstanding!

Very true about G, D and F all peaking at different times.

Let's hope this next draft is the beginning of a new wave of top 100 players in the NHL again!