Was Lindros supposed to be better than Lemieux?

[billybudd]

I dunno where people are getting the idea that Lindros was supposed to be better than Gretzky or Lemieux.

The reason he was called the Next One (and this was in reference to Lemieux AND Gretzky, both of whom had _____ One designations) was because he was thought to be the next unique, game-changing Canadian center. If anyone said he'd be better than either of them in an ultimate sense, I never heard it. At best, he was supposed to be "another one of those guys," but Messier was more often invoked than Lemieux or Gretzky.

Sure he made the crowd go "wow" but he was not the bona fide franchise person or player. Mario and Gretz were great ambassadors, who could express themselves as intellectual persons. Lindros was a brute.

?

Prior to his first retirement, Lemieux only really talked to two or three media people, usually off the record. There weren't a large volume of quotes from him in newspaper game recaps. Insofar as there were national games (and there barely were in the US before his first retirement), he scarcely said a thing.

66 is an insightful speaker, but he was no sort of ambassador until he had ownership skin in the game, which didn't happen until he was 35ish.

Now, Lindros wasn't much of an "ambassador," either (came off as too self-absorbed, adversarial and dismissive--like a less obnoxious Pronger with a worse sense of humor), but to find him desperately wanting in an ambassadorial capacity in comparison to Lemieux is just false.

 

[Nino33]

My "hockey memory" goes back to 1976; I definitely remember the hype surrounding Lindros and his arrival in the Canada Cup/NHL and his NHL career, and I don't recall him ever being compared with Gretzky or Lemieux

 

[puckpilot]

Would anyone like to trade a Gretzky or Lemieux rookie card for a Lindros? :p

 

[Big Phil]

Nothing has ever compared to the hype for Lindros. Nothing.

Not quite. Orr was hyped coming into the league in 1966. They had 4 years of junior watching him in anticipation. Lemieux had at least as much hype as Lindros I think while Crosby and McDavid were definitely hyped up, but I think Lindros tops them this way.

Lemieux was talked about as someone who might break Gretzky's records. Orr was something no one had ever seen. Lindros was a great, great junior player, there is no doubt, but I think he was more hyped up as a combination we had never seen before than someone better than, say, Lemieux. I still think Lemieux was the better junior player, and maybe Orr as well.

I'll give Lindros the edge in junior over the likes of Lafleur, Crosby, McDavid, etc. Not by much either of course, but by a little.

 

[HalifaxforNhl100]

I see maybe Lemieux as the best stick handler in NHL history although Lindros were really great on dekeing too
Both were two of the absolute fastest skaters in the league and had a two of the best shots ever or maybe top 20 in history also for Lindros there, Lemieuxs were more accurate, like Gretzky or rather Mike Bossy
Not offensively i guess because Lindros played more than a bit harder physical game that filled some room from the offensive play
But Lemieux had quite a bit better offensive players with him from the 89-90 seson to 1995-96 season, penguins were the best offensive team in most in the league all years and had some of the best offensive both forwards and defencemen too

 

[bobholly39]

I know this is an old thread, but I figure I'll post my thoughts. Here's my theory.

Before Gretzky, no one had seen video game stats like that. It was impossible. Then - Lemieux came along and did the same (or close enough).

It was pretty unanimous that Lindros was going to be the next big one at the time. Only unlike both Lemieux and Gretzky - he also had size and a physical game, giving him something extra.

As for video game stats? Well - I think people sort of took for granted that because Gretzky and Lemieux both did it ~5 years apart, Lindros would as well, just with a physical edge on top of it. So it went from being "impossible" before Gretzky to "well, the next big one is probably going to be as good offensively or close enough", almost taking it for granted.

Truth is - Lindros wasn't as good offensively. Neither were Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid or any other prospect since. People don't expect nor assume video game stats anymore today, but back around Lindros's draft, I expect people were taking it a bit for granted, which is why some of the hype became as big as it did.

 

[Staniowski]

Two major points to say about the unprecedented hype surrounding Lindros when he was a prospect.

First, he was a great offensive player, not like Gretzky and Lemieux, but close enough that some hockey people thought he could become the greatest player ever. His great offense, mobilit6, physical play, aggressiveness, defense (better than Gretzky and Lemieux) might combined to make him possibly a super Howe or Messier.

Secondly, the hype existed significantly because of the environment of the time, which had changed substantially since Lemieux, even though there was only eight years between them (only seven years in draft terms).

In particular, by Lindros' time, TSN was popular in Canada, THN Draft Preview appeared, the World Juniors were now popular, and there were a lot more hockey fans who were interested in this stuff. When Lemieux was a prospect, the vast majority of hockey fans had little visibility to him. Lindros, on the other hand, was everywhere.

 

[MadLuke]

In particular, by Lindros' time, TSN was popular in Canada, THN Draft Preview appeared, the World Juniors were now popular, and there were a lot more hockey fans who were interested in this stuff.

This, which make me doubt that any prospect before got similar level of general population hype, regardless of talents....

And regardless of a prospect quality now that, it would be hard for one to ever surpass it, because of the erosion of an Canadian hockey near sport monoculture.

McDavid hype felt lower than Crosby to me, did not know the father, stories, basement dryer, followed since he was 13-14 at the same level, while he was a same tier prospect. I was not watching Coach corner all the time like before, less hyped around the world junior than before.

Not sure if Bedard hype felt much bigger than say an "inferior" prospect like Daigle felt at the time or Tavares. I remember even reading people saying imagine Crosby or McDavid in the tiktok social age of today how big they would be, while Bedards was scoring 2 pts a game as an exceptionnal status 15 years old rookie in Regina not even coming up to their minds....

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

some of these pts have already been touched on, but yeah the lindros hype was unprecedented partially because of the pop culture landscape of the time, and also where hockey and sports in general were

gretzky going to LA in 1988 made a huge difference in terms of anyone caring about hockey, and this helped the lindros hype balloon in a way that the league just wasn’t ready for yet when mario was a prospect. this is also interest that was long gone by the time crosby and later mcdavid were prospects.

related to the gretzky effect, there was also the sports card craze. when gretzky was traded, it was just o-pee-chee and topps, and they were the same card by two different companies. by the fall of 1990, there was also pro set, score, upper deck, and i believe bowman. because of how the sports card industry works, there was an extreme interest in rookie cards, and so you had a special magnified interest in lindros because he was a draft prospect that had a rookie card (because score signed him to an exclusive deal and he was, i believe, not eligible under the card companies’ deal with the NHLPA). through various side deals, score had the first lindros card, o-pee-chee had the first fedorov card (via the red army), and upper deck had the first bure (via the world juniors, i think).

shaq being regarded as a generational NBA prospect at the time, and a big time cultural phenomenon, also drove the lindros hype to an extent, because the parallels between the two were obvious. shaq wasn’t expected to score like jordan, no more than lindros was expected to score like mario, but there was a possibility that their net effectiveness could equal or exceed their high scoring predecessors due to toughness, intimidation, and simply hurting the opponent.

the popularization of the world juniors might have also played a small role, but i’m inclined to think that it was lindros who made the world juniors into the cultural institution it became through the first half of the 90s, instead of vice-versa.