Was Lemieux's sports comeback in 2000 among the best in history?

[Midnight Judges]

Monica Seles came back after the stabbing....she was off for between 2 and 3 years. I can't remember, though, what the expectations were re: her return.

At the time of the stabbing, she was dominating tennis, having won 7 of the previous 8 majors in which she played.

She returned playing at the Canadian Open - i remember watching it, and won. In the next 2 majors, she lost in the finals of the U.S. and then won the Australian. That was it, though. She never regained her previous dominance.

Along those lines, Alex Smith's comeback was amazing. He went from almost having his leg amputated to winning a few games with the Redskins (which is hard to do because they suck very badly).

Washington Football Team QB Alex Smith's comeback from nearly losing his leg

Washington Football Team Quarterback Alex Smith was fighting for his leg and his life in November 2018 after he suffered a gruesome on field injury. Following thousands of hours of rehab and help from the US Military, he defied expectations to make a return to the NFL, in one of the greatest...

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Big Phil]

Haven't heard Michael Vick in this thread; say what you want but he paid his debt to society and balled out at a Pro Bowl level

Yeah, that counts. And is up there and is one I'll admit I forgot. I guess from an official point he didn't retire, but spent two years in prison. Somewhere along the way Vick came back and was just as lightning fast but managed to throw the ball a lot better than he had with the Falcons. It was a sight to see.

Monica Seles came back after the stabbing....she was off for between 2 and 3 years. I can't remember, though, what the expectations were re: her return.

At the time of the stabbing, she was dominating tennis, having won 7 of the previous 8 majors in which she played.

She returned playing at the Canadian Open - i remember watching it, and won. In the next 2 majors, she lost in the finals of the U.S. and then won the Australian. That was it, though. She never regained her previous dominance.

Seles is a good example, yes. Unfortunately she wasn't quite the same. Graf was the beneficiary of Seles not being there. I can remember hearing the scream on Sportscenter highlights when Seles got stabbed. Just awful.

 

[Hanji]

He was not actually in prison for five years. Just under three years.

I don't know enough about boxing to really be confident in this, but it seems that it's a relatively easy sport to make a comeback in or hang on into "old age" in. Experience seems very important, strength is easier to maintain than many other athletic traits, and I would guess that when you are old or rusty it is easier to train for one night than for an 8 month grind of a season.

Just the opposite, actually. You'd need hours galore of sparring just to get your timing back after a lengthy lay-off from boxing. Your body also needs time to get used to absorbing punches again.

One's physical condition needs to be impeccable. The level of stamina needed to box at a professional level is downight insane.


There's no way someone could pull a Mario Lemieux and haphazardly return after a lay-off and dominate. I don't care how talented someone is, doing as such is an invitation to getting slaughtered.

 

[authentic]

Just the opposite, actually. You'd need hours galore of sparring just to get your timing back after a lengthy lay-off from boxing. Your body also needs time to get used to absorbing punches again.

One's physical condition needs to be impeccable. The level of stamina needed to box at a professional level is downight insane.


There's no way someone could pull a Mario Lemieux and haphazardly return after a lay-off and dominate. I don't care how talented someone is, doing as such is an invitation to getting slaughtered.

George Foreman retired in 1977 and won his first 5 matches by KO or TKO in 1987. Then became heavyweight champion in 1994 at 45 years old.

 

[Hobnobs]

This belongs to Phelps and Foreman

 

[frisco]

I'll take Mario at #1.

My Best-Carey

 

[TeeTee]

Ted Williams had a nice return following being drafted for WWII.

 

[JackSlater]

Ted Williams had a nice return following being drafted for WWII.

I'm honestly more impressed by him returning as an elite player once again after spending over a year in his 30s flying combat missions in the Korean War.

 

[LightningStorm]

Loses some points because he chose to retire and wasn't really forced to in any sense, but the degree of difficulty of his return was still extremely high given the necessities of hockey and Lemieux's health history. Among the best, yes. His return was noteworthy enough that Jordan apparently contacted Lemieux before his comeback with Washington.

Weren't those both situations where the returning player was a part-owner? Figuring out those logistics probably played a role there.

I'm sure, and they also were somewhat golf buddies as far as I remember.

Correct, they became friends after meeting at a charity golf tournament early in their careers, which led to them becoming golf buddies in the summer.

 

[psycat]

To pre-empt the steroids posts. Every one in cycling is on roids and enhancers, so Armstrong was a level playing field as a roided up guy beating a bunch of other roided up guys.

Wrong. Armstrong was a, kind of, donkey turned race horse. He had access to better gear than most and was also protected and a true sociopath. Big budget team, omerta, bully in a sport with a rather strict hierarchy, darling of a cycling world that wanted the popularity in US market, best doping doctor, team wide doping program that was built around him winning the Tour(and nothing else) etc.

Of course most cyclists likely doped at one point or another but not nearly in the same fashion. Now should he, "alone", have taken the fall the way he did? No but he wouldn't have unless he felt the need to act like grade A asshole over and over, and make a second comeback etc. Indurain etc probably doped nearly as much.

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the spectacle and was a fan of him as a rider(I still follow cycling major tours ever year and miss those times as a spectator) but there was no such thing as a level playing field and Armstrong is very possibly the worst offender of all time in cycling even if there are a few that could rival him

Now I do believe most athletes in any sport, especially endurance, doped at one point or another so I would still agree that his comeback is worthy of mentioning in the thread but this lie about the "level playing field" is fabricated mostly by Armstrong himself.

On a tangent I sometimes wonder if these cancer treatments(Lemieux, Armstrong etc) themselves sometimes gives the athletes a competitive edge somehow or can be used as masking agents for more traditional juice.

 

[Voight]

eh, GSP was a good story, but it was Michael Bisping, he was ducking everyone who was an actual threat and he knew GSP was his best money fight, but also chance at retaining. He knew he was a paper champ


Haven't heard Michael Vick in this thread; say what you want but he paid his debt to society and balled out at a Pro Bowl level

Vick also made sure everyone one of his creditors was paid in full, which is rare in a bankruptcy case.

In his 30 for 30 he seems genuinely remorseful.

 

[Voight]

MLB reliver Jonny Venters went 2,027 days between MLB appearances. He suffered 4 UCL tears (which is the worst kind of injury a pitcher can have) between 2013-2016.

 

[markymarc1215]

Not the best comeback but an amazing one. Guy came back with half a back, in the worst of the DPE, and put up Points per Game numbers that matched or exceeded prime McDavid.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Just the opposite, actually. You'd need hours galore of sparring just to get your timing back after a lengthy lay-off from boxing. Your body also needs time to get used to absorbing punches again.

One's physical condition needs to be impeccable. The level of stamina needed to box at a professional level is downight insane.


There's no way someone could pull a Mario Lemieux and haphazardly return after a lay-off and dominate. I don't care how talented someone is, doing as such is an invitation to getting slaughtered.

Agreed. Ali was only 28 when he returned and ordinarily would have been dead smack in his peak. But the 3.5 years layoff did a lot of damage to him. He was noticeably slower less agile and his legs and stamina were no where near what they were. He put up his best imitation of a 67 Ali against quarry in his return in 1970 but his next bout against Bonavena in Dec 1970 really showed how much that layoff had taken from him. 3 months later with only 18 rounds of boxing in 4 years he took on Frazier in the biggest fight ever and lost. If he would have shaken off the ring Rust with maybe 2-3 more bouts I believe he would have won. Although it was always going to be a tough fight for Ali.

 

[Dingo]

Personally i think Foreman might got this. He was gone like forever and i believe returned to win some although somewhat less prominent pro world championship before being outmanouvered(Because he could not be knocked out by Tyson even) by Tommy Gun Morrison. Or that is how i remember it anyways.

Ya, this one is it, for me, for sure..

Also a great example of how boxing didnt improve so much past the nostalgic glory days like some sports - as, fat old George was very, very relevant in the early 90s, and the tops from that era are still accepted as as capable as the current top.

yes, that was a lot of ‘as’s

 

[Dingo]

Agreed. Ali was only 28 when he returned and ordinarily would have been dead smack in his peak. But the 3.5 years layoff did a lot of damage to him. He was noticeably slower less agile and his legs and stamina were no where near what they were. He put up his best imitation of a 67 Ali against quarry in his return in 1970 but his next bout against Bonavena in Dec 1970 really showed how much that layoff had taken from him. 3 months later with only 18 rounds of boxing in 4 years he took on Frazier in the biggest fight ever and lost. If he would have shaken off the ring Rust with maybe 2-3 more bouts I believe he would have won. Although it was always going to be a tough fight for Ali.

agree with you entirely here, but will add my beliefs…

I think with Ali it wasnt his physical age that kept him from ever (imo) getting back to the same shape he was in the 60s. I think that he became so much more of an activist and celebrity that he simply didn’t train like he did as a hungry, young, dedicated-to-only-athletics boxer. The way he moved against Folley, Big Cat and Terrell was NEVER seen again - although, I think out of fear/respect, and maybe the fact that he was stuck in other countries with nothing to do but prepare, he DID look pretty good in Kinsasha and Manila.

edit - and with all due respect to Quarry and his terribly sad story, I think he was quite overrated, slow, smallish, easy to hit… custom made for Ali to look good on, even if he wasn’t.

 

[Dingo]

George Foreman retired in 1977 and won his first 5 matches by KO or TKO in 1987. Then became heavyweight champion in 1994 at 45 years old.

I think that’s what makes it so remarkable, though.

Although, with George, and with that sport and heavyweights in general, that chin and that power goes such a longgggggg ways.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

agree with you entirely here, but will add my beliefs…

I think with Ali it wasnt his physical age that kept him from ever (imo) getting back to the same shape he was in the 60s. I think that he became so much more of an activist and celebrity that he simply didn’t train like he did as a hungry, young, dedicated-to-only-athletics boxer. The way he moved against Folley, Big Cat and Terrell was NEVER seen again - although, I think out of fear/respect, and maybe the fact that he was stuck in other countries with nothing to do but prepare, he DID look pretty good in Kinsasha and Manila.

edit - and with all due respect to Quarry and his terribly sad story, I think he was quite overrated, slow, smallish, easy to hit… custom made for Ali to look good on, even if he wasn’t.

Yeah quarry had heart was a really good fighter but had the skin of a new born. Bonavena was the real challenge as he was a tough son of a gun. Yeah I remember seeing Ali interviews during his layoff and If I recall he said he wasn't doing much boxing wise and was more focused on the activist stuff. Speeches at colleges etc. The closest I think Ali ever got to looking Like a pre layoff Ali was Ken Norton 2 after losing the first fight by coming in overweight. Ali came back for the rematch in peak weight and the butterfly like they say showed his wings again. That Norton trilogy may have been even tougher trilogy for him than the Frazier one Norton style was a disaster for Ali

 

[James Walker]

Tony Conigliaro

On August 18, 1967, the Red Sox were playing the California Angels at Fenway Park. Conigliaro, batting against Jack Hamilton, was hit by a pitch on his left cheekbone and was carried off the field on a stretcher. He sustained a linear fracture of the left cheekbone and a dislocated jaw with severe damage to his left retina.[5] The batting helmet he was wearing did not have the protective ear-flap that has since become standard, partly due to this incident.

A year and a half later, Conigliaro made a remarkable return, hitting 20 homers with 82 RBI in 141 games, earning Comeback Player of the Year honors. In 1970, he reached career-high numbers in home runs (36) and RBI (116).

 

[Dingo]

Yeah quarry had heart was a really good fighter but had the skin of a new born. Bonavena was the real challenge as he was a tough son of a gun. Yeah I remember seeing Ali interviews during his layoff and If I recall he said he wasn't doing much boxing wise and was more focused on the activist stuff. Speeches at colleges etc. The closest I think Ali ever got to looking Like a pre layoff Ali was Ken Norton 2 after losing the first fight by coming in overweight. Ali came back for the rematch in peak weight and the butterfly like they say showed his wings again. That Norton trilogy may have been even tougher trilogy for him than the Frazier one Norton style was a disaster for Ali

I love Ali, think he is very likely the best boxer ever, and a better person, and I don’t know if he beat Norton once. Styles make fights, and that guy had his number.