Was Jimmy Howard good enough to win a Cup with?

[Indrid Cold]

After seeing the Wings have 2 of the top 15 goalie prospects (yay!), I am wondering who thinks Jimmy was good enough to win a Cup with as the #1

Click to read more...

 

[RabidBadger]

I will say sí, using Darcy Keumper as my metric.

 

[The Zermanator]

Whether a goalie can win a Cup as a #1 is more dependant on the team in front of them. Howard was no worse than Kuemper or Hill. So if the team in front of him was good enough, yes he could have won a Cup. 07/08 Wings probably win with him in net too.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yes. For 3 of 4 years just before he signed his 6 year deal, he finished full seasons with a .920 or better save percentage.

Jimmy Howard was a legitimiately good/great starting goalie.

Then, the Red Wings f***ed up both him and Mrazek because they kept skirting the issue. Jimmy got hurt and rushed back because Petr was slotted into the role. Howard never healed right after that first groin injury and having to fight tooth and nail for his job because he got hurt f***ed him up in the head. And then Petr was f***ed in the head too because he's a cocksure hotshot who had a really good season in relief of Jimmy and they didn't want to commit to him either.

The Wings screwed up because Mrazek was a really athletic goalie who played overaggressive and their goalie coach never toned that down. He'd have amazing games against guys like Ovechkin because they're gonna meet aggression with aggression. But teams learned if you can make one cross-ice pass, Mrazek is so out of position because he cheated so hard that you get a tap-in.

Jimmy, as evidence by the softball bod, never really got his physical conditioning back after his groin injury and then was either slow to get across or overcheated to get across and got ate alive for doing that.

They thought they had two goalies, but as everyone knows with starting goalies and starting quarterbacks... if you've got two of them, you've got none of them.

For further "proof" (aka anecdotal evidence), look at the series against the Blackhawks in 2013 when the Wings got up 3-1 in that series to lose in 7. Howard was standing on his head. Detroit had Datsyuk and Zetterberg who could play on even footing with Chicago, but a whole lot of nothing beyond that and yet, they were on the verge of knocking out the eventual Cup winners.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Babcock ruined a lot of players while he was here. We could argue Jimmy was one of them. Howard was pretty much cooked after that injury and it only got worse with each new season.

 

[Oddbob]

With the right team in front of him, yes.

 

[Henkka]

He was, when he was healty.

Injuries ruined the guy.

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

Howard was terrible, I don't want to see another positive comment about him.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Howard was terrible, I don't want to see another positive comment about him.

Well, you're going to, because he wasn't terrible. He was a far cry from terrible.

His stats for every year but his last (when he was well and truly cooked at 35) would have been better than any Detroit goalie with more than 5 games played in a year for every season since 20-21. And hell, that last year of his was 19-20... when the Wings quite literally had the worst defense I've ever seen.

It's ridiculous the mental gymnastics people play about players that they dislike.

Jimmy Howard was a plus goalie for four years (2009-2010 to 2012-2013),
He was an average goalie with injury troubles on a declining team (2013-14 to 2018-19). and had a first half in 16-17 that earned him a trip to the All-Star game before he got hurt.
He was completely cooked and deservedly out of the league following 2019-20.

No, Jimmy Howard isn't a legendary Wings goaltender. But this type of vitriol is just freaking sillytime. He didn't f*** up Petr Mrazek's career by being around. Petr Mrazek f***ed up his own career by never actually learning to be a consistently great goalie. Teams saw on film how they could light Mrazek up and they did just that... even if he's physically talented enough to play well through that.

If you could somehow fusion dance the pair of them together, the Wings would have had the best goalie in the league. Howard could think the game and Mrazek could react to the game. But neither could do what the other did well.

 

[Al48]

I’m sure there’s some stat out there to check my work, but Jimmy Howard seemed to be a very good goalie for 55 minutes most nights, and would then let in some ridiculous goal in the remaining 5 minutes. Could we have won a Cup with him? Maybe if he had a better team around him. I think there’s a lot of goalies who could win Cups if they had good teams around them. Could he have dragged a decently good team to being a Cup winning team like Quick in 2012? I don’t believe so.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I’m sure there’s some stat out there to check my work, but Jimmy Howard seemed to be a very good goalie for 55 minutes most nights, and would then let in some ridiculous goal in the remaining 5 minutes. Could we have won a Cup with him? Maybe if he had a better team around him. I think there’s a lot of goalies who could win Cups if they had good teams around them. Could he have dragged a decently good team to being a Cup winning team like Quick in 2012? I don’t believe so.

Yeah, that stat is called anecdotal evidence.

one more win against the Cup Champion blackhawks in 2013 and he would have had that chance to take down Quick.

 

[GMR]

No.

 

[DamonDRW]

These things are relative.

I remember I didn't like Vernon as compared to Roy. Then we got Chris "it is not my fault" Osgood and I started to like Vernon.

Then Jimmy came and I started to dream about reliable goaltending that Osgood provided.

Watching the current mess I think Howard was good.

 

[Shaman464]

He could have won if he had Vlady and Lids in front of him in their primes. But the dude was a head case and I can’t imagine with a non-elite defense in front of him being able to carry a team. He’d get beat and then follow it up with a soft goal because he couldn’t put the first goal in the rear view mirror.

 

[Bench]

There was a window in his career you could make the argument he was. But that window wasn't very big.

 

[kook10]

We'd kill for his playoff save % and GAA now. Our offensive support was terrible for him. Yes he let in a couple stinkers, but on the other side of the anecdotal coin, how many games did we watch where they softly played on the perimeter and only took non-threatening low % shots and never drove the net? Our offensive stats don't tell the story in the same way.

It was the era of Babs' lingering puck possession and Corsi love affair after the talent to support it was gone. Jimmy couldn't win in such a tightly controlled system, but maybe with a more dynamic offense things would be different. Them's the breaks though.

 

[Frk It]

If the Hawks can win one with Niemi in net, anything is possible.

 

[Chris Langlois]

No. He was not a clutch goalie in playoffs. 2011 was his only good playoffs.

 

[SirKillalot]

At his absolute best the possibility is there, but overall I'd say no. I was never a big Howard-supporter.

 

[Bench]

If the Hawks can win one with Niemi in net, anything is possible.

Step 1: Have a stacked with multiple Hall of Famers and incredible depth.

And Neimi didn't suck or anything once he left Chicago. He had some nice years in San Jose. He was Jimmy Howard level, for sure.

If you're playing on a stacked team, the key is just to not make the big mistakes. And Neimi did that for Chicago.

 

[ricky0034]

Howard was terrible, I don't want to see another positive comment about him.

fine i'll post my favorite Jimmy Howard stat

he had the highest 5 on 5 save percentage in the entire league among Goalies with 1000+ minutes played in the two year period between 2011-2013

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Dotter]

Yes.

And Ozzy should be in the HHOF.

 

[Henkka]

Yes.

And Ozzy should be in the HHOF.

He is.

 

[GMR]

Step 1: Have a stacked with multiple Hall of Famers and incredible depth.

And Neimi didn't suck or anything once he left Chicago. He had some nice years in San Jose. He was Jimmy Howard level, for sure.

If you're playing on a stacked team, the key is just to not make the big mistakes. And Neimi did that for Chicago.

The Flyers goaltending was all time bad in the 2010 Finals.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

No. He was not a clutch goalie in playoffs. 2011 was his only good playoffs.

2013 begs to differ.