Was Jim Rutherford the right hire for Vancouver?

[JianYang]

He was the right fit for an owner who has never had the patience to see a comprehensive rebuild through.

Rutherford is aggressive and bold. Even during press conferences, it really surprises me how candid and unfiltered he is. He doesn't seem to care at all how is comments will be portrayed or he's oblivious to what the consequences could be.

 

[JianYang]

JR if he was just doing the role he was hired for he’d be fine but he’s literally the shadow Gm while Allvin just gets the title, until JR gets them both fired.

Or knowing JR he will just randomly quit when he realizes he’s about to get canned.

It seems like a partnership role, and reminds alot of the gorton/Hughes setup at least in structure. There's reports that Islanders may follow a similar structure so maybe it's a sign that this trend might become more common moving forward.

 

[Stephen]

Considering Ownership refused to do a rebuild, bringing in rutherford on paper made a ton of sense.
The biggest issue with Jim is that while we love that he is overly honest, it get's the team into bad PR situations (Think Bruce) and it causes havoc (Think Hughes).
His job also was to help bring in a practice facility, which we still don't have.
Overall, it was tracking well with trades mostly, but this past season ruined pretty much all of the goodwill, so for that ill say no.

Is the Canucks-needs-a-rebuild common orthodoxy in Vancouver though?

Cause from the outside looking in, what started off as a core group of Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko seemed like a good enough base to do anything with. Just needed the right support cast which maybe a wheeling and dealing GM President combo could have sorted out in due time. It's not like you needed to tear it down and rebuild just so you could pull special talent of the draft like that that might be another Hughes or Pettersson...

 

[IComeInPeace]

If EP40 plays like a 1C (or even a 2C) you’re not even in a position where you need to be asking this question.

Every team has to deal with injuries.

Hronek and Quinn Hughes missed 35 games between them, and then Hughes was playing significantly hurt and nowhere near his normal capabilities for another 20 games.

Our world class goalie was healthy for maybe a dozen games…

Yet, even with all of that this team still likely makes the playoffs again if EP40 had played like an elite center.

But, if you want to blame Rutherford it’s easy to do based on that one simple decision:
re-signing EP40.
It’s clear as day this team and organization would be in a completely different spot (and potentially still playing hockey right now) if they trade him before last seasons TDL instead of re-signing him.

That is legitimately on Rutherford.

 

[JianYang]

Is the Canucks-needs-a-rebuild common orthodoxy in Vancouver though?

Cause from the outside looking in, what started off as a core group of Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko seemed like a good enough base to do anything with. Just needed the right support cast which maybe a wheeling and dealing GM President combo could have sorted out in due time. It's not like you needed to tear it down and rebuild just so you could pull special talent of the draft like that that might be another Hughes or Pettersson...

It was a huge topic of discussion during the Benning era, and it was the reason why Trevor Linden left his post because he was a proponent of a long term vision.

Benning teams were neither here or there... just kind of stuck in perpetual mediocrity, but that management did end up bumbling their way into a good looking core with a mix of veterans and youngsters, so the fans only recently got away from the rebuild mentality. It was still very much alive at the time of the Rutherford hire.

 

[chethejet]

He got lucky trading Miller for the first. He needed to trade him before the extension for more assets. That extension just killed any return of more assets coming back. Jimmy was very good in the Pens years in 2015 to 2017, But just was under the gun to move picks to keep the balls in the air. Pens were done in 2018 as to a cup contender due to sullivans nonsense and lack of size and grit. Coaches and GM's parlayed Sid being one of the greats into jobs that look like not quite as good without Sid doing the heavy lifting. Rutherford, Tochett, Sullivan are and will find without Sid, hard to find success.

 

[Siludin]

Rutherford has mismanaged the media in Vancouver.
It was something his time with American teams didn't prepare him for.
I think he likes the attention.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

He is not the GM. He is charge of Hockey operations. Now I maybe splitting hairs here but the GM is the guy on charge of the team, trades and final say in drafting

You would think but in this day and age it seems like it the President

 

[JKG33]

Openly seeing the damage he did prior in Pittsburgh? No, he was far from the right hire.

The damage that won 2 straight cups? Lmfao

 

[Three On Zero]

The damage that won 2 straight cups? Lmfao

Go back to the thread where Pittsburgh fans were warning Vancouver about him

 

[JKG33]

Go back to the thread where Pittsburgh fans were warning Vancouver about him

Cool, doesn't change the fact that hes won cups with multiple organizations. You gotta take the good with the bad

 

[Three On Zero]

Cool, doesn't change the fact that hes won cups with multiple organizations. You gotta take the good with the bad

His good was long gone.

 

[JKG33]

His good was long gone.

He had won the cups a couple years prior to getting to van. Not like he was Lou or something

 

[Brookbank]

He was the right fit for an owner who has never had the patience to see a comprehensive rebuild through.

Rutherford is aggressive and bold. Even during press conferences, it really surprises me how candid and unfiltered he is. He doesn't seem to care at all how is comments will be portrayed or he's oblivious to what the consequences could be.

There is candid and then there's reckless idiocy that actually hurts your bargaining position. And causes needless tension in the media market.

Some of his hockey moves like picking Stevie Y's pockets for Hronek have been good. But he needs to stfu in the media and understand that this isn't Carolina.

 

[Brookbank]

Is the Canucks-needs-a-rebuild common orthodoxy in Vancouver though?

Cause from the outside looking in, what started off as a core group of Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko seemed like a good enough base to do anything with. Just needed the right support cast which maybe a wheeling and dealing GM President combo could have sorted out in due time. It's not like you needed to tear it down and rebuild just so you could pull special talent of the draft like that that might be another Hughes or Pettersson...

It isn't so much as rebuild as taking transition years and having a 2-3 year plan. Instead of running the team like a non keeper fantasy hockey pool every year. Which is what they've meme dong since 2006.

In fact , Dave Nonis got fired for basically squeezing in a transition year in 2006. Ownership wanted him to trade Edler shcnieder and kesler for Brad Richards. He said no to that sh** and got fired

 

[Brookbank]

If EP40 plays like a 1C (or even a 2C) you’re not even in a position where you need to be asking this question.

Every team has to deal with injuries.

Hronek and Quinn Hughes missed 35 games between them, and then Hughes was playing significantly hurt and nowhere near his normal capabilities for another 20 games.

Our world class goalie was healthy for maybe a dozen games…

Yet, even with all of that this team still likely makes the playoffs again if EP40 had played like an elite center.

But, if you want to blame Rutherford it’s easy to do based on that one simple decision:
re-signing EP40.
It’s clear as day this team and organization would be in a completely different spot (and potentially still playing hockey right now) if they trade him before last seasons TDL instead of re-signing him.

That is legitimately on Rutherford.

So trading Petterson for Marty Necas (no top 6 centers) would have man Vancouver a playoff team ? Year right.

It is strange how clueless ppl are on the Petterson contract. He's a 26 year old Calder winner and 90-100 point center. And yet ppl compare this to 30+ year olds on the typical 8 year retirement contract.They are not the same. Not even close. Petterson under performed this year. He already proved what he is.

Petterson proved way more than Pierre Luc Debois ever did and even PLD turned it around. It's almost like talent doesn't go away. And he doesn't compare to Huberdeau either. Because Huby was a good line merchant. Petterson didn't get inflated numbers on a good line. He was the one inflating everyone else's numbers. Like 39 goal Kuzmenko.

 

[StreetHawk]

He was the right fit for an owner who has never had the patience to see a comprehensive rebuild through.

Rutherford is aggressive and bold. Even during press conferences, it really surprises me how candid and unfiltered he is. He doesn't seem to care at all how is comments will be portrayed or he's oblivious to what the consequences could be.

He was GM/Prez in Carolin and Pitt. Van is even more of a base that hinges on every word. He can get away saying certain things in Carolina/Pitt (I don't recall any media sessions he had in those markets), but he really needs to be more tact with the media in Vancouver.

 

[Three On Zero]

He had won the cups a couple years prior to getting to van. Not like he was Lou or something

Couple years is a long time in hockey terms

 

[Dolemite]

It’s well documented that there’s been ups and downs and drama since the Canucks hired Rutherford. He’s definitely made some Rutherfordesque trades. Is he really the style of manager that the team needed at the time? Or would it not have mattered.

The biggest thing for the Canucks for Free agents is that they have to overspend to attract talent due to their location and (over the years) taxes.

 

[Fatass]

When JR was first hired I thought he’d tell the owner to get stuffed if the owner set a course for hockey ops that made no sense. I think I was wrong. JR is just another in a series who follow the owner’s direction. Give up futures in hopes of winning now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It seems like a partnership role, and reminds alot of the gorton/Hughes setup at least in structure. There's reports that Islanders may follow a similar structure so maybe it's a sign that this trend might become more common moving forward.

lol if you think it’s a partnership, god help you mate.

 

[JianYang]

lol if you think it’s a partnership, god help you mate.

Partnership role in the sense that they are sharing the general manager responsibilities, yes. Ditto with Hughes and gorton which I already mentioned as a comparison.

If you are implying that Rutherford has final say on certain aspects, I'm not doubting that.
i also know rurheford is in his mid 70s and allvin was a first time GM. You can kind of see a built in transition plan there.

 

[Voight]

Based on what I've seen, Vancouver has always been poorly managed.

It's one of the few organizations that needs a complete inspection and clean up. I think once they get it together they could be a consistent playoff team, maybe cup champions. But to my understanding the Canucks never had good ownership let alone management. Everybody likes to crap on them, but I personally believe they need to be fixed.

I'd argue they had good management during the Quinn, Burke and Gillis years no?

 

[Fatass]

It was a huge topic of discussion during the Benning era, and it was the reason why Trevor Linden left his post because he was a proponent of a long term vision.

Benning teams were neither here or there... just kind of stuck in perpetual mediocrity, but that management did end up bumbling their way into a good looking core with a mix of veterans and youngsters, so the fans only recently got away from the rebuild mentality. It was still very much alive at the time of the Rutherford hire.

Didn’t the owner fire Nonis for refusing to trade young guys (Kesler and Edler) for veterans? Then the owner fired Gillis for him suggesting the club needed to rebuild? Then Linden pushed out for the same. It’s a pattern with this owner and JR is following his orders from above. Trade young assets/picks for veterans. Try and win now.

 

[JianYang]

Didn’t the owner fire Nonis for refusing to trade young guys (Kesler and Edler) for veterans? Then the owner fired Gillis for him suggesting the club needed to rebuild? Then Linden pushed out for the same. It’s a pattern with this owner and JR is following his orders from above. Trade young assets/picks for veterans. Try and win now.

Regarding Gillis, I was always puzzled when he hired torts. It just seemed so offside from his mindset. That hire had me wondering who was actually in charge and whether that hire came from ownership in response to some critiques that the team wasn't "tough enough"