Was Gretzky Polish, Ukrainian or Belarusian?

[njdevils1982]

Joao Tavares

f*** that guy

 

[brentashton]

Joao Tavares

Does he play with Paco Mathewnez?

 

[Your old Jofa helmet]

I think it is Russian for Son of Lavrenti. Lavrenti being a Slavik name.

I'll be that guy and say... Lavrenti is not a Slavic name, it's Latin and it's the same name as Lawrence or Laurent.
Vladyslav or Vsevolod are Slavic names.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Grecki is the Polish spelling, a noble family belonging to the Prawdzic lineage. The founder of Patek Philippe watchmaking company is also from this clan so quite possibly a distant relative.

is that the same last name as gorecki, like the composer? or are grecki and gorecki two distinct names?

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

Start watching at the 38:00...

If you like, next time, you can set the video to start wherever you like. For instance for this one, after the YouTube link, you would add this:

&t=38m00s

YT link+&t=00m00s (set time to where you wish).

 

[the_fan]

Did Gretzky passed away or something? Why in past tense? Was Gretzky?

 

[kaiser matias]

Read The Killing Lands, that will help with your understanding of this

I believe you're thinking of *Bloodlands* by Timothy Snyder.

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

All of the above, a PUBE ?

I have seen this post like eight times and I finally get it.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I'll be that guy and say... Lavrenti is not a Slavic name, it's Latin and it's the same name as Lawrence or Laurent.
Vladyslav or Vsevolod are Slavic names.

When does a word become part of a language. Pavel is the Slavic cognate of the Latin Paul but it's still in my mind Slavic. The word "wood" came from the Germanic "wudu" & Welsh "gwydd" but it is still english.

 

[Albatros]

is that the same last name as gorecki, like the composer? or are grecki and gorecki two distinct names?

Górecki is a different one, coming from the root góra, a mountain that is. Probably the first carriers lived in a corresponding place such as a locality called Górka. As members of the szlachta nobility Greckis belonged to Prawdzic coat of arms and Góreckis to Dołęga coat of arms, so also different clans if you like. The Prawdzic clan was mostly from what is today Belarus and the Dołęga clan mostly from Mazovia.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Górecki is a different one, coming from the root góra, a mountain that is. Probably the first carriers lived in a corresponding place such as a locality called Górka. As members of the szlachta nobility Greckis belonged to Prawdzic coat of arms and Góreckis to Dołęga coat of arms, so also different clans if you like. The Prawdzic clan was mostly from what is today Belarus and the Dołęga clan mostly from Mazovia.

ah thx for the fact check… although i was looking fwd to saying that in some circles wayne gretzky might not even be the most well known gretzky

 

[Firsov99]

This is the answer right here.

Here, via Wikipedia, is a 1916 map of Polish populations across Ukraine and Belarus. Dark red signifies areas where Poles were the majority of the population (>50%), lighter red indicates a significant Polish minority (>10%), and white indicates marginal Polish populations (<10%). Even there, however, if you zoom in, you can see the exact percentage.

So, first and foremost, these were ethnically mixed areas. But even that does not adequately describe the situation, as the ethnic divide itself was blurred. Poles were disproportionately the economic elite of the region (szlachta), and it was not uncommon for someone to ascend up the economic ladder and subsequently adopt Polish language and culture, especially prior to the emergence of the Ukrainian nationalist movement. Yet even those with long 'Polish' lineages were themselves often cognizant of their non-Polish origins and of the fact that they had more in common with their Ukrainian/Belarusian neighbours than the Polish elite in Warsaw and Krakow. This is how the leader of the interwar Polish Republic, Józef Piłsudski, could call himself "Lithuanian" and see no contradiction in his fervently Polish patriotism.

Besides class, religion was the other major divide in these areas, with Ukrainians being generally Russian Orthodox or Greek Catholic, Belarusians primarily Russian Orthodox (the Tsar having dismantled the Belarusian Uniate church in the 1830s), and Poles -- of course -- Roman Catholic. For those who were unfamiliar or unattached with the idea of a nation, which we forget is a rather recent development (large parts of Eastern Ukraine and Belarus, in particular, had no such concept sometimes as late as the 1920s), religion (the more important identifier in their lives) frequently became synonymous with it. Thus, for example, a Belarusian in the 1920s could insist in fluent Belarusian to a Soviet ethnographer that he was "Russian" (because he was an Orthodox Christian).

Funnily enough, that is an exact parallel to how Wayne Gretzky's grandmother, Mary Gretzky, defined her roots in an interview to a Ukrainian diaspora magazine in 1982 (link, see: pg. 9):



(tl;dr) In other words, in a case of the family like the Gretzky's, it is complicated. I suppose you could say they are ethnically Ukrainian, but culturally Polish. But most Poles don't -- of course -- speak Ukrainian as their mother tongue and most Ukrainians don't identify as Poles or use the Polish name for their hometown. They are a relic of an age where national identity in this part of Europe was far more fluid.

(Note: There is little that I could find on Gretzky's father, Anthony (Tony). In the interview linked above, Mary describes her by then-late husband as being "from White Russia," but then wrongly clarifies that he is from "Ukraine." White Russia and his birthplace, Grodno, are obviously not in Ukraine. But Ukrainian and Belarusian are very close languages, and even Ukrainian and Polish are relatively mutually intelligible, especially with familiarity. A linguist, if there is one on this board, is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems possible that Gretzky's grandparents could have understood each other quite well, and that Walter's "Ukrainian," which he awoke speaking after his brain aneurysm, was in fact Ukrainian with some degree of Polish and Belarusian admixture).

This is an incredibly interesting find! Specifically, the interview of Maria Gretzky.

Many sources claim, incorrectly, that Maria, Wayne's grandmother on his Dad's side, was Ukrainian, but, apparently, she is not. To support this, I've read an interview of one of Wayne's relatives who remains in modern-day Belarus. She claimed that Terentiy (Tony Gretzky) remarried in Canada to a Polish woman. So these two interviews perfectly align - Maria was ethnic Polish.

Terentiy, on the other hand, is unlikely to be Polish. He, clearly, didn't speak Polish, otherwise he and Maria would have used Polish as a household language. So, he is either Belarussian or Ukrainian himself. Considering that he is from Grodno region, I would probably sway more towards the Belarussian origin. Belarussian and Ukranian languages are quite similar, so it would make sense why Terentiy and Maria were using Ukranian as a lingua franca.

Additionally, Terentiy is definitely not a Polish name, and his last name Gretzky ("of Greek") could be indicative of belonging to Orthodox Christianity, in contrast to Catholic Christianity, more common among Poles.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Does anyone else think his playing style was more Eastern European-esque than Canadian (for his time period)?

Perhaps that had something to do with his ancestry. He was very nimble, cerebral and crafty - more like a Larionov or Datsyuk than a Clarke, Trottier or Messier.

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

Can anyone tell me what Mark Stone is? I always thought he was native, but I am not sure on that.