Was Gretzky Polish, Ukrainian or Belarusian?

[al secord]

It’s was the Scots that brought hockey to Canada.

It's coming home!

 

[sawchuk1971]

whats max pacioretty's ethnicity?

 

[Iapyi]

I wonder what were Gretzky Family origin... Polish, Ukrainian or Belarus?


His own words in his HOF induction in 1999: 'Thanks god I am Polish'... This suggests he is of Polish origin.

But according to various other sources he is of Ukrainian or Belarus origin. His grandfather Terentiy (Anton) Lavrentievich Gretzky (Grecki/Gritzko) was a farmer from Grodno (now Belarus), while his grandmother Maria Khodenetsky was from Pidhaitsi, Ternopil Oblast (now Ukraine). His father Walter Gretzky once stated their parents were 'White russians from Belarus', however in his aubiography Walter stated their family's first language was ukrainian.

Also Wayne appeared in a documentary film about hockey players with Ukrainian origins called 'UKE'

Jerry Sawchuk? That's a pretty bad typo to have.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Charlize Theron is African American.

Heritage and genealogy are not always as simple as they seem.

Wouldn’t she have to be an American for that to happen lols

 

[banks]

Wouldn’t she have to be an American for that to happen lols

Pardon?

Wikipedia Charlize Theron

What makes you think she's not American?

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Pardon?

Wikipedia Charlize Theron

What makes you think she's not American?

I had no idea she became American - I’ll kinds of always think of her as south African I guess my bad

 

[banks]

I had no idea she became American - I’ll kinds of always think of her as south African I guess my bad

Well, I won't blame you for not knowing the citizenship of celebrities. So no worries.

And most people would assume the opposite. I've blown people's minds telling them that she's South African. It's a good example in how complex heritage, culture, and genealogy can be.

 

[3074326]

I thought he was American at first. I thought Bond was American at first too.

Your post reminded me of one of my best friends during the winter olympics a little while ago. We live in Columbus, OH and he was just starting to get into the Jackets at this time.

He asked me why Rick Nash was playing for team Canada. I told him he was Canadian. He told me he played for the Jackets, in Columbus. I reminded him that he was Canadian. He never gave up on his goal of Nash playing for team USA. I eventually gave up and told him not to get his hopes up.

 

[Zenos]

Jerry Sawchuk? That's a pretty bad typo to have.

Not a typo. Jerry Sawchuk is Terry's son, who was interviewed for the film. His father sadly passed away in 1970.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Gretzky was a lucky man. He'd be subject to "lazy Russian" if he was speaking with an accent.

 

[Buffalo Preds]

This is the answer right here.

Here, via Wikipedia, is a 1916 map of Polish populations across Ukraine and Belarus. Dark red signifies areas where Poles were the majority of the population (>50%), lighter red indicates a significant Polish minority (>10%), and white indicates marginal Polish populations (<10%). Even there, however, if you zoom in, you can see the exact percentage.

So, first and foremost, these were ethnically mixed areas. But even that does not adequately describe the situation, as the ethnic divide itself was blurred. Poles were disproportionately the economic elite of the region (szlachta), and it was not uncommon for someone to ascend up the economic ladder and subsequently adopt Polish language and culture, especially prior to the emergence of the Ukrainian nationalist movement. Yet even those with long 'Polish' lineages were themselves often cognizant of their non-Polish origins and of the fact that they had more in common with their Ukrainian/Belarusian neighbours than the Polish elite in Warsaw and Krakow. This is how the leader of the interwar Polish Republic, Józef Piłsudski, could call himself "Lithuanian" and see no contradiction in his fervently Polish patriotism.

Besides class, religion was the other major divide in these areas, with Ukrainians being generally Russian Orthodox or Greek Catholic, Belarusians primarily Russian Orthodox (the Tsar having dismantled the Belarusian Uniate church in the 1830s), and Poles -- of course -- Roman Catholic. For those who were unfamiliar or unattached with the idea of a nation, which we forget is a rather recent development (large parts of Eastern Ukraine and Belarus, in particular, had no such concept sometimes as late as the 1920s), religion (the more important identifier in their lives) frequently became synonymous with it. Thus, for example, a Belarusian in the 1920s could insist in fluent Belarusian to a Soviet ethnographer that he was "Russian" (because he was an Orthodox Christian).

Funnily enough, that is an exact parallel to how Wayne Gretzky's grandmother, Mary Gretzky, defined her roots in an interview to a Ukrainian diaspora magazine in 1982 (link, see: pg. 9):



(tl;dr) In other words, in a case of the family like the Gretzky's, it is complicated. I suppose you could say they are ethnically Ukrainian, but culturally Polish. But most Poles don't -- of course -- speak Ukrainian as their mother tongue and most Ukrainians don't identify as Poles or use the Polish name for their hometown. They are a relic of an age where national identity in this part of Europe was far more fluid.

(Note: There is little that I could find on Gretzky's father, Anthony (Tony). In the interview linked above, Mary describes her by then-late husband as being "from White Russia," but then wrongly clarifies that he is from "Ukraine." White Russia and his birthplace, Grodno, are obviously not in Ukraine. But Ukrainian and Belarusian are very close languages, and even Ukrainian and Polish are relatively mutually intelligible, especially with familiarity. A linguist, if there is one on this board, is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems possible that Gretzky's grandparents could have understood each other quite well, and that Walter's "Ukrainian," which he awoke speaking after his brain aneurysm, was in fact Ukrainian with some degree of Polish and Belarusian admixture).

I don’t know if you deliberately omitted Carpatho-Rusyns from your explanation, but I should note that the picture of what’s now SE Poland isn’t just Poles and Ukrainians. Many descendants of people who resided in the interface area between Austro-Hungary and Russia in the first part of the 20th century were Ruthenians/Rusyns, who spoke distinctively from Ukrainians/ Poles, with their own eastern rite church. Some of this group allied with Ukrainians, but many saw themselves as East Slavs, closely tied to Russians. My great-grandfather was a pro-Russian Rusyn Lemko. He was killed by the A-H army at Talerhof concentration camp in 1915 or so. These Russophile Lemko were definitely not Ukrainian, and Lemkos were plurality or majority in many parts of Malopolskie, Galicia, Sanok, etc. The map you link to, showing Poles in the majority of most of Lemkovyna is propaganda that justified their ethnic cleansing (FYI, this was done under the pretext that Lemkos were UPA, but my Russophile Lemko family literally fought against the Bandera fascists).

There are Lemkos with names like Gretzky, but the details don’t line up with the idea that he is a Rusyn. That aside, it’s important not to obliterate Rusyns from any discussion of the peoples of the region.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Gretzky was a lucky man. He'd be subject to "lazy Russian" if he was speaking with an accent.

Gretzky was born in Canada. So was his dad Walter. So why would he speak with an accent?

 

[Wings4Life]

I remember Wayne being Polish more than anything else (and Canadian, obviously).

For ages, half of Ukraine and all of Belarus was actually part of Poland. Many Belarussians and Ukrainians will have a good amount of Polish blood.

Euratlas Periodis Web - Map of Europe in Year 1600

 

[kingsholygrail]

What if he's Italian?

 

[Cotton]

It’s was the Scots that brought hockey to Canada.

I’ve heard both the Scots and English, recently, trying to take credit. And a bunch of other nations before that. Nobody brought it, it was created here - depending on which theory you believe - either from the Mi’kmaq, or Canadians. I myself believe the Mi’kmaq claim, they were known to play a sort of winterized version of lacrosse on ice since at least the 17th century, and their tribe became the sole suppliers of what became known as hockey sticks since the early 18th century until the early NHL years. They are also the only tribe that considers Hockey a part of their culture.

‘The game of hockey most likely began with the First Nations, the people known in the Maritime region as the Mi’kmaq, and its history is being pieced together by First Nations experts like Michael Robidoux, Roger Lewis and Bernie Francis utilizing insights and research gleaned from an intimate knowledge of Mi’kmaw language, culture, and ways.[4] That ground-breaking research will continue to focus on authenticating the existence of an early indigenous form of hockey in Mi’kmaki.”

Reimagining the Creation: The ‘Missing Indigenous Link’ in the Origins of Canadian Hockey

What happened is it was changed by the Canadians who adopted it over the course of hundreds of years. What we have today is, most likely, a game of Native origins that was influenced and developed by people of different backgrounds who added on to it. Without a doubt the scots/Irish/English saw a similarity to Hurley and influenced the language used. Much like American football resembles a brutal game the Incas once played, doesn’t mean the Incas invented football. The Halifax rules changed the games and it’s been tweaked pretty much nonstop since at least the 1880’s - making it something distinctly Canadian.

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

he's Canadian.

 

[YippieKaey]

Are Canadians British or French? Are Americans British or Spanish or Polish or German or Italian or Greek.

Are we all just an unholy mix of alelles and fenotypes? Are we (everybody except OG african people) neanderthals?

The answer to every question is yes!

My question is: Who do we want to be tomorrow?

 

[Wayward Son]

They need to ask Gretzky so that he can confirm that he's all 4 and that they are all the best countries ever.

 

[vipera1960]

Does it really matter? He’s 3rd generation Canadian, who cares which part of an ethnic melting pot his grandparents came from.

 

[User9992]

LOL. Triggered Canadians.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Finish this sentence:
A Pole, A Ukrainian and a Belarusian all walk into a bar, the bartender says...

Goddammit keep your head up, you dumbasses.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

LOL. Triggered Canadians.

Canadians are weird. They’re “Canadian” if you ask them, but they’ll claim the identity of their ancestors.

Like there’s Italian Americans. But then there’s Canadian Italians.

But in any international competition, it’s the opposite. Americans will cheer for the American first then their ethnicity, but Canadians will cheer for the (other ethnicity first, assuming they belong to that ethnicity), then the Canadian.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Canadians are weird. They’re “Canadian” if you ask them, but they’ll claim the identity of their ancestors.

Like there’s Italian Americans. But then there’s Canadian Italians.

But in any international competition, it’s the opposite. Americans will cheer for the American first then their ethnicity, but Canadians will cheer for the (other ethnicity first, assuming they belong to that ethnicity), then the Canadian.

That's true when it comes to football/soccer. But that maybe has more to do with the fact that Canada is not very good internationally in that sport (at least in the men's division). Canada only has one World Cup appearance, way back in 1986. All the immigrants from soccer-loving nations have no real opportunity to switch allegiance to Canada since they aren't even in the big tournament.

I assure you there aren't many Canadians of Italian ancestry who are avid fans of the Italian National Hockey Team.

 

[fredrikstad]

Norwegians

Glenn Sather, has Norwegian ancestors. They once was Sæther or Sætre.

 

[alko]

Maybe this guy know more.