Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ

[14ari13]

Walman to me seems like your typical bad team scorer. Great when the pressure is off and he doesnt HAVE to perform.

Hronek was always a decent player but just didnt work in Detroit. It resulted in a win-win trade.

Ghost, did well in Detroit and even better in Carolina. But they also have better players surrounding him.

Out of all those defensemen Jensen is the one that got away imo. Never liked that we traded him and he would've been useful today over Holl, Petry and Chiarot.

Adding Määttä to that as well. This team would look a lot better if we had Jensen and Määttä as the vets instead of Petry and Holl.... and he's doing well in Utah.

Lalonde and Blashill as well as Boughner not being able to coach the defense. Not sure why the whole coaching staff wasnt let go but time will tell I guess.

Caps at the top, we at the bottom?

PS. I think some players excel o good teams and can't show how good they are on and teams.

 

[Redwing66]

Thinking we might only have to give up a third rounder to rid ourselves of Edvinsson.

 

[14ari13]

I would also add Maatta here. He plays 2nd most min on his team. He is a top 4 defenceman on a better team, while here he was a 7th.

 

[GMR]

I hope Walman thanks Yzerman during his Norris Trophy speech.

 

[Lampedampe]

Edvinsson-Seider
Walman-Maata
Chiarot-Ghost
Petry

Could've been last years defense. Getting rid of Walman instead of Lalonde was a pretty glaring mistake.

Not calling up Simon was very strange aswell.

Many weird choices by Yzerman last year... I hope he's someone that can learn from it. Signing both Holl and trading for Petry was such a terrible thing to do, the only way It makes sense is if he really wanted to keep Ed in AHL. You can make the argument that it was for Ed's development, and that he wouldn't look as good today if it wasn't for those extra 50 AHL games. But I'm not buying it at all, he had proved himself, and if you prove yourself and you make the team better, then you should be on the team.

The playoff drought could've and should've ended last year.

 

[Gniwder]

I hope Walman thanks Yzerman during his Norris Trophy speech.

I know he's doing so much better now that he doesn't have to carry Seider, but Makar and Hughes are tearing it up as usual.

45pts with 11 goals for Makar, that's more than double Mo. Amazing.

 

[Gniwder]

Edvinsson-Seider
Walman-Maata
Chiarot-Ghost
Petry

Could've been last years defense. Getting rid of Walman instead of Lalonde was a pretty glaring mistake.

Not calling up Simon was very strange aswell.

Many weird choices by Yzerman last year... I hope he's someone that can learn from it. Signing both Holl and trading for Petry was such a terrible thing to do, the only way It makes sense is if he really wanted to keep Ed in AHL. You can make the argument that it was for Ed's development, and that he wouldn't look as good today if it wasn't for those extra 50 AHL games. But I'm not buying it at all, he had proved himself, and if you prove yourself and you make the team better, then you should be on the team.

The playoff drought could've and should've ended last year.

It was a mistake signing Fester in the first place. Should've hired a real coach. It didn't make much sense to replace a bald collegiate goalie with another one, I had my doubts and mocked him right away despite some objections here when I (along with a few others) called him Fester.

Considering the team missed the playoffs by one point, I agree a real coach would have ended the drought.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

It was a mistake signing Fester in the first place. Should've hired a real coach. It didn't make much sense to replace a bald collegiate goalie with another one, I had my doubts and mocked him right away despite some objections here when I (along with a few others) called him Fester.

Considering the team missed the playoffs by one point, I agree a real coach would have ended the drought.

We should have kept Blashill. I knew that guy was a clown. Yzerman's drafting will be his legacy if we climb out of this mess.

 

[ShanahanMan]

We should have kept Blashill. I knew that guy was a clown. Yzerman's drafting will be his legacy if we climb out of this mess.

Blash sucked too and is very unliked in TB

 

[Lampedampe]

It was a mistake signing Fester in the first place. Should've hired a real coach. It didn't make much sense to replace a bald collegiate goalie with another one, I had my doubts and mocked him right away despite some objections here when I (along with a few others) called him Fester.

Considering the team missed the playoffs by one point, I agree a real coach would have ended the drought.

Yeah, looking back at it I guess I was hopeful that Lalonde could bring some of the success Tampa had. Always looked like a well-coached team imo.

His shortcomings should have been apparant to anyone who had inside knowledge in Tampa though. Not a single bone in his body screams head coach material, they're a different breed. You can see it in McLellan and despite being an absolute asshole Babs also had what it took.

And then after Lalonde lost the room Yzerman not only didn't fire him, he instead got rid of players he lost. It was apparant from the pre-season that something stank in that locker-room.

 

[ElProfessor]

Who do you suppose is scouting our NHL Defensemen?

Our pro scouts...
-Maltby. NHL forward.
-Kyle MacKinnon. NHL forward.
-Boyd Gordon. NHL forward.
-Brian Flynn. NHL forward.
-Steve's brother Chris. Can't find anything about him playing at any level.

-Horcoff. NHL forward.
-Draper. NHL forward (and 100% amateurs).
-Cleary. NHL forward (and 100% development).
-Kronwall. NHL DEFENSEMAN (and 100% European development).
-Dwayne Blais. Minor league forward (and just a skill development coach).
-Aaron Kahn (JD) is a business guy...I think salary cap specialist (and a college goalie).
-Bryan Campbell (CFA) is a business/stats guy of some sort (but a college defenseman lol).
-Dan Kosinski is a stat guy (can't find anything about him ever playing at any level.

Leaves.. Fischer and Lidstrom.

Fischer seems to have both a player development and scouting role. He's been here since he retired.

Lidstrom. It says scouting is part of his job. But he lives in Sweden. And he was hired 7 months prior to the Ben Chiarot signing (and all that followed).

*****

My first reaction to all of this ^ is WHAT THE ****. There's not one person on the entire staff involved in the scouting of NHL players (besides Fischer, to whatever extent he is) who has ever played any defense at any level??? How can that be??

 

[MabusIncarnate]

I don't understand the mentality of a scout needing to be a former player at a certain position to effectively find good players. All of those former players listed that played a full NHL career know more about hockey and players than a bunch of dudes on a message forum. I'm confident they can sit and watch a game and tell if a defender is a stand out to them or not, regardless if they ever played defense in the NHL.

 

[ElProfessor]

I don't understand the mentality of a scout needing to be a former player at a certain position to effectively find good players. All of those former players listed that played a full NHL career know more about hockey and players than a bunch of dudes on a message forum. I'm confident they can sit and watch a game and tell if a defender is a stand out to them or not, regardless if they ever played defense in the NHL.

What makes you think that..

Justin Holl, Erik Gustafsson, Jeff Perry, Ben Chiarot at $6M/yr, Jake Walman & our 2nd Rd Pick or Utah's Oli Maatta?

 

[SantosHalper]

I don't understand the mentality of a scout needing to be a former player at a certain position to effectively find good players. All of those former players listed that played a full NHL career know more about hockey and players than a bunch of dudes on a message forum. I'm confident they can sit and watch a game and tell if a defender is a stand out to them or not, regardless if they ever played defense in the NHL.

Jim Devellano never played a game and became a quite good scout before rising up in the ranks.

 

[ElProfessor]

Jim Devellano never played a game and became a quite good scout before rising up in the ranks.

Who in the organization said..

"Gustafsson...great idea".

"Holl...great idea".

"5yr 25M deal for Chiarot (and Compher, and Copp)...great idea".

"2nd Rd pick to get rid of Wallman...great idea".

Our pro scouting...and particularly our defensive pro scouting...has been completely horrific. And needs to be addressed. This week.

 

[SantosHalper]

Who in the organization said..

"Gustafsson...great idea".

"Holl...great idea".

"5yr 25M deal for Chiarot (and Compher, and Copp)...great idea".

"2nd Rd pick to get rid of Wallman...great idea".

Our pro scouting...and particularly our defensive pro scouting...has been completely horrific. And needs to be addressed. This week.

Well that would be Steve Yzerman.

Pro scouts doesn't get to decide what players the team acquires, thats GM's job. What pro scouts do, is that they watch the games, write a report and sent it to GM. After that i can see 3 different scenarios.

1. Yzerman says "nah, not interested"
2. Yzerman is interested and perhaps tries to make a trade but the other team wants something that Yzerman isn't willing give.
3. In the UFA markets Yzerman could say "nah, not interested" or he is interested and makes an offer but the player in question says "thanks but no thanks, im signing with the other team"

Blaming pro scouting for bad players is pointless, it's the GM who decides and GM sees every game his team play. And he sees these players play against his team, he knows exactly what he's getting into when he signs the likes of Copp, Chiarot and Compher's.

 

[Austrianwing]

Who do you suppose is scouting our NHL Defensemen?

Our pro scouts...
-Maltby. NHL forward.
-Kyle MacKinnon. NHL forward.
-Boyd Gordon. NHL forward.
-Brian Flynn. NHL forward.
-Steve's brother Chris. Can't find anything about him playing at any level.

-Horcoff. NHL forward.
-Draper. NHL forward (and 100% amateurs).
-Cleary. NHL forward (and 100% development).
-Kronwall. NHL DEFENSEMAN (and 100% European development).
-Dwayne Blais. Minor league forward (and just a skill development coach).
-Aaron Kahn (JD) is a business guy...I think salary cap specialist (and a college goalie).
-Bryan Campbell (CFA) is a business/stats guy of some sort (but a college defenseman lol).
-Dan Kosinski is a stat guy (can't find anything about him ever playing at any level.

Leaves.. Fischer and Lidstrom.

Fischer seems to have both a player development and scouting role. He's been here since he retired.

Lidstrom. It says scouting is part of his job. But he lives in Sweden. And he was hired 7 months prior to the Ben Chiarot signing (and all that followed).

*****

My first reaction to all of this ^ is WHAT THE ****. There's not one person on the entire staff involved in the scouting of NHL players (besides Fischer, to whatever extent he is) who has ever played any defense at any level??? How can that be??

I don't understand the mentality of a scout needing to be a former player at a certain position to effectively find good players. All of those former players listed that played a full NHL career know more about hockey and players than a bunch of dudes on a message forum. I'm confident they can sit and watch a game and tell if a defender is a stand out to them or not, regardless if they ever played defense in the NHL.

Random musings on both sides of this...
I think forwards would have a good bit of insight into evaluating defensemen. They spend their whole careers trying to do their job despite defensemen trying to prevent them from doing it. If you let the forwards on each team choose which ones they had to play against, they would probably do a pretty good job of identifying the good ones and avoiding them.
I also think that playing experience isn't a requisite, and doesn't guarantee much. Plenty of very good former players that have sucked at coaching for instance. But, when you have a whole team of people that are hopefully picking one another's brains and discussing player evaluations, having a range of different backgrounds is a good idea. Many copies of exactly the same perspective doesn't really add much to the mix.

 

[ElProfessor]

Random musings on both sides of this...
I think forwards would have a good bit of insight into evaluating defensemen. They spend their whole careers trying to do their job despite defensemen trying to prevent them from doing it. If you let the forwards on each team choose which ones they had to play against, they would probably do a pretty good job of identifying the good ones and avoiding them.
I also think that playing experience isn't a requisite, and doesn't guarantee much. Plenty of very good former players that have sucked at coaching for instance. But, when you have a whole team of people that are hopefully picking one another's brains and discussing player evaluations, having a range of different backgrounds is a good idea. Many copies of exactly the same perspective doesn't really add much to the mix.

Well. Whatever's gone on. It's resulted in Chiarot-Petry-Holl-Gustsfsson getting 66% of our ice time on defense. Rendering us an entirely hopeless team over the course of an entire season.

And it must be fixed.

Compher and especially Copp have already regressed the playoff-level 4th liners as well. And Tarasenko.

 

[14ari13]

Where is @Henkka ?

Did he disappear or put me on his ignore list?

 

[Gniwder]

Blaming pro scouting for bad players is pointless, it's the GM who decides and GM sees every game his team play. And he sees these players play against his team, he knows exactly what he's getting into when he signs the likes of Copp, Chiarot and Compher's.

If Stevie is making decisions based on how players play against a one line perennial cellar team (the Wings), then he should be fired today. Based on the last 3 games, he'd be targeting Kampf, O'Connor, and Dowd.

There's a reason why he has pro scouts, and they aren't doing their job well.

 

[Euro Twins]

Walman to me seems like your typical bad team scorer. Great when the pressure is off and he doesnt HAVE to perform.

Hronek was always a decent player but just didnt work in Detroit. It resulted in a win-win trade.

Ghost, did well in Detroit and even better in Carolina. But they also have better players surrounding him.

Out of all those defensemen Jensen is the one that got away imo. Never liked that we traded him and he would've been useful today over Holl, Petry and Chiarot.

Adding Määttä to that as well. This team would look a lot better if we had Jensen and Määttä as the vets instead of Petry and Holl.... and he's doing well in Utah.

Lalonde and Blashill as well as Boughner not being able to coach the defense. Not sure why the whole coaching staff wasnt let go but time will tell I guess.

Why would Tanguay be let go?

 

[SantosHalper]

If Stevie is making decisions based on how players play against a one line perennial cellar team (the Wings), then he should be fired today. Based on the last 3 games, he'd be targeting Kampf, O'Connor, and Dowd.

There's a reason why he has pro scouts, and they aren't doing their job well.

He's not making desicion solely on how they play against the Wings. Copp, Compher etc... have been in the league for years, he saw them when was in Tampa. And surely he has watch them in the playoffs as well. It's hardly a mystery how our UFA signings has played before and how would they perform here. All of us here knew what we got and so did Yzerman.

Pro scouts are there to scout players on small minutes and players who GM wants more info on. And how exactly we know that our pro scouts are bad? It's Yzerman who decides what players he pursues for and then there is the other party, other GM or player itself. Do you think that they just gonna cave in just because there is Stevie Y on the other end of the line?

Sure our pro scouts could be bad. But no one here knows what they have recommended.

 

[Gniwder]

He's not making desicion solely on how they play against the Wings. Copp, Compher etc... have been in the league for years, he saw them when was in Tampa. And surely he has watch them in the playoffs as well. It's hardly a mystery how our UFA signings has played before and how would they perform here. All of us here knew what we got and so did Yzerman.

Pro scouts are there to scout players on small minutes and players who GM wants more info on. And how exactly we know that our pro scouts are bad? It's Yzerman who decides what players he pursues for and then there is the other party, other GM or player itself. Do you think that they just gonna cave in just because there is Stevie Y on the other end of the line?

Sure our pro scouts could be bad. But no one here knows what they have recommended.

Wow, if he's making decisions based on his Tampa days, that would explain Tarasenko, lol.

If Stevie hired a bunch of yes men, and he's the one that's making all of these bad UFA decisions then he needs to be fired. Regardless of what the process is, it's broken and he needs to fix it or go.

 

[SantosHalper]

If Stevie hired a bunch of yes men, and he's the one that's making all of these bad UFA decisions then he needs to be fired. Regardless of what the process is, it's broken and he needs to fix it or go.

Fire him because the plugs isn't leading Wings to the promised land? Which UFAs he should have held at gunpoint and force them to sign with Wings then? Since clearly they didn't want to sign with Wings.

 

[Gniwder]

Fire him because the plugs isn't leading Wings to the promised land? Which UFAs he should have held at gunpoint and force them to sign with Wings then? Since clearly they didn't want to sign with Wings.

I'd take Strome over Copp. Trochek probably wouldn't have signed with the Wings but Strome took one year $3.5M from the Caps, an easy contract to beat. You think he wouldn't have taken 2 x $4M? We'd have DBC-Strome-Kane line from the Blackhawks.

We all wanted Roy not Gus, and Stevie should have kept Sprong and Walman and fired Fester instead.

The Wings and Caps were neck and neck last season, they're better this season because of better trades and UFA signings. DC isn't even a real hockey town, there's 2 ice rinks in each county in the suburbs. I learned to skate when Rollerblades came out.