W/C Zachary Benson - (2023, 13th, BUF)

[Zach716]

Benson has been getting hosed by the refs all year. An 18 year old who plays very aggressively makes for an easy target to make it look like you’re doing your job.

Missing some other good ones but this is objectively funny. Never seen anything quite like it

It’s unfortunate because you could imagine how that affects the psyche of an 18 year old still getting used to the league and how he plays.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Zach pots two yesterday and is now up go 23 points in 56 games.

 

[BerthMania]

Is he playing well Sabres fans?

 

[Chainshot]

Is he playing well Sabres fans?

Playing great.

 

[Zman5778]

Is he playing well Sabres fans?

He's been one of our most consistent players all year, and he's got 5 points his last 2 games as that consistency is finally starting to show in the scoresheet.

Does all the little things and is a rabid dog on the puck.

 

[Chainshot]

Him with Cozens at center and Greenway on the other wing had been really good for a couple games. His forecheck game is great, he’s PKing well and finally starting to pick up points.

 

[Satanphonehome]

It seems like Benson's season (28 points in 67 games so far) has done little to change his stock among prospect watchers.

Those who liked him continue to like him and are pretty impressed he's stuck as a regular in the NHL at 18.

Those who were lower on him respond with 'yeah, but it's Buffalo, and it's not like he's putting up great numbers.'

In short, the consensus seems to be: "yeah he's a good prospect, but there's nothing remarkable going on there."

You might want to take a closer look.

Since the year 2000, of the more than 4,500 players picked outside the top 10 in the NHL draft, only 5 have played as NHL regulars as U19s: Patrice Bergeron, Cole Sillinger, Ryan O'Reilly, David Pastrnak and Benson.

Over that period, only 22 players have scored at least 30 points as U19 rookies.
They are: McDavid, Crosby, McKinnon, Bedard, Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Bergeron, Dahlin, Nash, Gaborik, Laine, Svechnikov, Hischier, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Ekblad, Skinner, Nikushkin, Jordan Staal, Gagner, Kotkaniemi and Sillinger.

The players who played regularly at 18 but did not reach 30 points are: Stutzle, Pastrnak, Evander Kane, O'Reilly, Barkov, Kakko, Dach, Horton, Seguin and Jack Hughes.

The pool of players who have accomplished what Benson has this season is both small and exceptionally accomplished.

He might be having a more remarkable season than you think.

 

[ponder]

It seems like Benson's season (28 points in 67 games so far) has done little to change his stock among prospect watchers.

Those who liked him continue to like him and are pretty impressed he's stuck as a regular in the NHL at 18.

Those who were lower on him respond with 'yeah, but it's Buffalo, and it's not like he's putting up great numbers.'

In short, the consensus seems to be: "yeah he's a good prospect, but there's nothing remarkable going on there."

You might want to take a closer look.

Since the year 2000, of the more than 4,500 players picked outside the top 10 in the NHL draft, only 5 have played as NHL regulars as U19s: Patrice Bergeron, Cole Sillinger, Ryan O'Reilly, David Pastrnak and Benson.

Over that period, only 22 players have scored at least 30 points as U19 rookies.
They are: McDavid, Crosby, McKinnon, Bedard, Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Bergeron, Dahlin, Nash, Gaborik, Laine, Svechnikov, Hischier, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Ekblad, Skinner, Nikushkin, Jordan Staal, Gagner, Kotkaniemi and Sillinger.

The players who played regularly at 18 but did not reach 30 points are: Stutzle, Pastrnak, Evander Kane, O'Reilly, Barkov, Kakko, Dach, Horton, Seguin and Jack Hughes.

The pool of players who have accomplished what Benson has this season is both small and exceptionally accomplished.

He might be having a more remarkable season than you think.

Great post, and agreed - being a full time NHLer putting up ~0.4 ppg at 18 certainly isn’t a GUARANTEE of longterm NHL success, but it’s an indicator that it’s very likely. He’s almost certainly going to be a longterm NHLer, and I think more likely a legit top line player than the more disappointing players on your list (like Sam Gagner, who had a long but unspectacular career, or guys like Kotka and Sillinger, who are still too young to judge, but IMO will likely in the “long but unspectacular career” bucket).

If I had to guess, I’d think he ends up somewhere roughly around guys like Schwartz, Bratt, MZA, TT or Marchessault in terms of impact.

 

[Faceboner]

It seems like Benson's season (28 points in 67 games so far) has done little to change his stock among prospect watchers.

Those who liked him continue to like him and are pretty impressed he's stuck as a regular in the NHL at 18.

Those who were lower on him respond with 'yeah, but it's Buffalo, and it's not like he's putting up great numbers.'

In short, the consensus seems to be: "yeah he's a good prospect, but there's nothing remarkable going on there."

You might want to take a closer look.

Since the year 2000, of the more than 4,500 players picked outside the top 10 in the NHL draft, only 5 have played as NHL regulars as U19s: Patrice Bergeron, Cole Sillinger, Ryan O'Reilly, David Pastrnak and Benson.

Over that period, only 22 players have scored at least 30 points as U19 rookies.
They are: McDavid, Crosby, McKinnon, Bedard, Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Bergeron, Dahlin, Nash, Gaborik, Laine, Svechnikov, Hischier, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Ekblad, Skinner, Nikushkin, Jordan Staal, Gagner, Kotkaniemi and Sillinger.

The players who played regularly at 18 but did not reach 30 points are: Stutzle, Pastrnak, Evander Kane, O'Reilly, Barkov, Kakko, Dach, Horton, Seguin and Jack Hughes.

The pool of players who have accomplished what Benson has this season is both small and exceptionally accomplished.

He might be having a more remarkable season than you think.

I agree as well and when you compare him to other rookies he is either
A.) Not getting nearly as much toi
Or
B.) Younger

 

[Satanphonehome]

Great post, and agreed - being a full time NHLer putting up ~0.4 ppg at 18 certainly isn’t a GUARANTEE of longterm NHL success, but it’s an indicator that it’s very likely. He’s almost certainly going to be a longterm NHLer, and I think more likely a legit top line player than the more disappointing players on your list (like Sam Gagner, who had a long but unspectacular career, or guys like Kotka and Sillinger, who are still too young to judge, but IMO will likely in the “long but unspectacular career” bucket).

If I had to guess, I’d think he ends up somewhere roughly around guys like Schwartz, Bratt, MZA, TT or Marchessault in terms of impact.

His peers right now amount to a list of 32 players.

Kotkaniemi, Sillinger, Kakko and Benson are still of the 'too young to tell' variety.
But Gagner's really the only guy of the other 28 who is/was not a slam-dunk top six player — at worst.

It's not exactly science, but (not counting the 4 kids) that calculates to a 96% chance than Benson is going to be a top 6 forward and — at the very worst — better than a guy who played 1,000 NHL games.

 

[tsujimoto74]

His peers right now amount to a list of 32 players.

Kotkaniemi, Sillinger, Kakko and Benson are still of the 'too young to tell' variety.
But Gagner's really the only guy of the other 28 who is/was not a slam-dunk top six player — at worst.

It's not exactly science, but (not counting the 4 kids) that calculates to a 96% chance than Benson is going to be a top 6 forward and — at the very worst — better than a guy who played 1,000 NHL games.

I’d even give him better odds than that since the best part of his game has nothing to do with points. He’s not one of those small guys who needs to be scoring or he’s useless; kid wins an absurd amount of puck battles for someone his size, much less his age, and he makes all the right little plays. Benson’s rookie season is more O’Reilly than Gagner.

 

[Ace]

The thing I’ll take away from his 18 year old season is that he’s better in puck battles than anyone on the team already and he's been their most consistent away from the puck forward all year. Points are a bonus at this point but he’s also had some bad luck in that department. I would say that six of the top ten saves made against Buffalo this year happened to him. Open in front and a highlight reel robs him. He also has put pucks on the tape all year and guys can not finish grade A chances to save their lives this year. There was a stretch earlier this season where every night he put a puck in place for a tap in from winning battles behind the net and every one of them didn’t go. I’m actually surprised he has that many points given how the season went. And I wish every other forward played half as well away from the puck. Scoring will come. He goes to the front of the net and works the hard areas all night.

 

[beachcomber]

Of course he works the hard areas of the ice. He's a western league product. It is generally in their DNA.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

He's going to be a top player. With the right team mates and getting stronger in my opinion he will be at least a ppg player

 

[majormajor]

It seems like Benson's season (28 points in 67 games so far) has done little to change his stock among prospect watchers.

Those who liked him continue to like him and are pretty impressed he's stuck as a regular in the NHL at 18.

Those who were lower on him respond with 'yeah, but it's Buffalo, and it's not like he's putting up great numbers.

I was and still am high on Benson but this isn't an accurate characterization of why NHL teams generally passed on him.

The more general expectation was that he'd be able to score in the NHL and do a lot of things really well, but might have a very short career playing the way he does at elbow height, and do we have a lineup fit for yet another small player, especially going into the playoffs. He's very small and gets tossed around. We have people debating whether Berkly Catton is big enough to make it and he is much bigger than Benson.

I'm remembering I think from last year's Black Book, that most of the NHL scouts they surveyed thought Gavin Brindley wasn't going to make it because he was too physical at that size. Quite apart from HF (and me) who prefers combative small players, NHL scouts want small players to be more contact averse. And it is true that there have been a lot of small players that fade in the NHL after initial promise, because of injuries.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Benson really was a top 5 prospect from the 2023 draft. GMs will regret letting him slide

 

[crosbyshow]

Benson really was a top 5 prospect from the 2023 draft. GMs will regret letting him slide

Yep ...because he was not 6.0 bs...

Look how many very good players who have not been drafted in the top 10 because of that

They did the same mistake with Jarvis, Sakic , Stankoven etc.. and could do the same.with Catton as well.

The 6.0 thing for forwards is bs.

Half of the best players in history were or are nkt 6.0..

 

[93LEAFS]

Yep ...because he was not 6.0 bs...

Look how many very good players who have not been drafted in the top 10 because of that

They did the same mistake with Jarvis, Sakic , Stankoven etc.. and could do the same.with Catton as well.

The 6.0 thing for forwards is bs.

Half of the best players in history were or are nkt 6.0..

I don't think this is the case anymore. The attitude towards height has shifted since Patrick Kane (who was like 5'9 or so at the combine went 1OA) and was further shifted by Gaudreau. In the past decade we've seen Nylander, Ehlers, Marner, Jack Hughes, etc. go top 10 being sub-6 feet. It's just generally they want high-end skater/elusive players if they are sub-6 feet.

 

[Satanphonehome]

I was and still am high on Benson but this isn't an accurate characterization of why NHL teams generally passed on him.

The more general expectation was that he'd be able to score in the NHL and do a lot of things really well, but might have a very short career playing the way he does at elbow height, and do we have a lineup fit for yet another small player, especially going into the playoffs. He's very small and gets tossed around. We have people debating whether Berkly Catton is big enough to make it and he is much bigger than Benson.

I'm remembering I think from last year's Black Book, that most of the NHL scouts they surveyed thought Gavin Brindley wasn't going to make it because he was too physical at that size. Quite apart from HF (and me) who prefers combative small players, NHL scouts want small players to be more contact averse. And it is true that there have been a lot of small players that fade in the NHL after initial promise, because of injuries.

I've yet to see statistical evidence that the injury rate for NHL players correlates to the size of NHL players.

I find it highly unlikely a 6'2" 210lb skater is less likely to be hurt — by a collision, a twist, or a fall at 20 mph, a shot at 80 mph, or a swung stick at any speed — than a 5'10" 180lb skater.

Bones break and ligaments tear regardless of your bulk. I would suspect one's style of play is a far greater indicator of their injury risk than their size.

 

[majormajor]

I've yet to see statistical evidence that the injury rate for NHL players correlates to the size of NHL players.

I find it highly unlikely a 6'2" 210lb skater is less likely to be hurt — by a collision, a twist, or a fall at 20 mph, a shot at 80 mph, or a swung stick at any speed — than a 5'10" 180lb skater.

Bones break and ligaments tear regardless of your bulk. I would suspect one's style of play is a far greater indicator of their injury risk than their size.

Think about what happens when a big car runs into a little car. This is basic stuff.

I don't have all day but some recent examples of smaller players getting dinged up - Kailer Yamamoto (who was great as a rookie), Tyler Ennis, Tyler Johnson, Nick Blankenburg (one of the Jackets best players in his early games, can't stay healthy).

 

[Satanphonehome]

Think about what happens when a big car runs into a little car. This is basic stuff.

I don't have all day but some recent examples of smaller players getting dinged up - Kailer Yamamoto (who was great as a rookie), Tyler Ennis, Tyler Johnson, Nick Blankenburg (one of the Jackets best players in his early games, can't stay healthy).

Purely anecdotal.

I don't have all day either, but the Lindros brothers are the most prominent example on the other side. How many games has Benson missed to injury compared to other, bigger rookies like Carlsson, Fantilli or Matt Rempe?

A better car analogy would focus on the number of accidents involving good and bad drivers.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Benson really was a top 5 prospect from the 2023 draft. GMs will regret letting him slide

Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, Smith, Michkov... Ahead of who of them would you pick Benson?

 

[MasterMatt25]

Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, Smith, Michkov... Ahead of who of them would you pick Benson?

Smith

 

[Chainshot]

Purely anecdotal.

I don't have all day either, but the Lindros brothers are the most prominent example on the other side. How many games has Benson missed to injury compared to other, bigger rookies like Carlsson, Fantilli or Matt Rempe?

A better car analogy would focus on the number of accidents involving good and bad drivers.

Benson has missed 9 games with an LBI we think may have been a groin issue in October into November. Since then, he's played every game.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Smith

You mean the NCAA leading scorer as a rookie?