W/C Zachary Benson - (2023, 13th, BUF)

[Hollel]

I will say why I think Benson dropped: he is small and likes to play in traffic and scouts see him as an injury risk. There's a concern that his body won't hold up.

If he stays healthy I think he's a first line player rather easily. I like his chances too.

This is exactly what it was. HockeyProspect.com had essentially said this very thing in ranking him at 12. Tons of incredible skill and motor but for a small guy it’s not only the injury risk, but what an injury can do for the trajectory of his career vs someone bigger and stronger.

 

[Realgud]

This is exactly what it was. HockeyProspect.com had essentially said this very thing in ranking him at 12. Tons of incredible skill and motor but for a small guy it’s not only the injury risk, but what an injury can do for the trajectory of his career vs someone bigger and stronger.

That's fair and all but that's quite a strange reason for someone to drop, just in my opinion. If it was an issue, then his team can just tell him to adapt his game and not drive the net as much. Nothing about Benson's game suggest he couldn't be a high-end perimeter playmaker similar to Keller, Panarin or Barzal if he can't get strong enough to not get injured.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Side note, i'm feeling similiarly about Dvorsky in STL and Musty in SJ. lol

Danielson, Simashev, and But are some of my favorite prospects...so it feels weird to say this but Arizona and Detroit gifted the Sabres and Blues some grade A scraps that both felt like #6 picks

That's fair and all but that's quite a strange reason for someone to drop, just in my opinion. If it was an issue, then his team can just tell him to adapt his game and not drive the net as much. Nothing about Benson's game suggest he couldn't be a high-end perimeter playmaker similar to Keller, Panarin or Barzal if he can't get strong enough to not get injured.

It's more that he puts himself in dangerous positions, so there is some concern that he'd be injured more frequently than the other options at 6-12 or whatever it was.

 

[DatDude44]

Danielson, Simashev, and But are some of my favorite prospects...so it feels weird to say this but Arizona and Detroit gifted the Sabres and Blues some grade A scraps that both felt like #6 picks

For sure, like I like all of those prospects. But i'm not taking any of them over dvorsky or benson. Especially Danielson. Real nice player, but he's not a high end star talent like the others in my opinon.

But and Simashev is interesting because there's a real chance both of those guys become absolute stars. But obviously it's a much higher risk with them given the warts each player possesses + the russian thing if that even matters still + where they were taken given the others on the board.

But it's fun to see them go high risk extremely high reward there. Will be fun to see how it plays out. But is legit a russian tage thompson, though i'm not sure he realizes yet that he's on the ice with 4 other teammates that are also allowed to touch the puck.

 

[Sabre the Win]

This is exactly what it was. HockeyProspect.com had essentially said this very thing in ranking him at 12. Tons of incredible skill and motor but for a small guy it’s not only the injury risk, but what an injury can do for the trajectory of his career vs someone bigger and stronger.

Marner was held back the same way and in the same light. Debrincat should have been a 1st round pick but he fell to the 2nd round because NHL scouts are afraid to take a chance on the small guy.

It's not like the Sabres will be screwed if he doesn't make it but the mentality of injury potential to smaller guys is what is holding teams back as we see tons of smaller guys adding point per game scoring.

Calgary had the biggest steal of 2011 NHL draft nabbing Johnny Gadreau in the 4th round.

At some point, the NHL will wake up, size isn't everything because I can't tell you how many prototypical power forwards busted.

 

[Peasy]

That's fair and all but that's quite a strange reason for someone to drop, just in my opinion. If it was an issue, then his team can just tell him to adapt his game and not drive the net as much. Nothing about Benson's game suggest he couldn't be a high-end perimeter playmaker similar to Keller, Panarin or Barzal if he can't get strong enough to not get injured.

Its not just the injury, its how they play after coming back from an injury. Benson was injured during the playoffs and when he came back he was not the same type of player. Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self, whether it is psychological or something else (HP people talked a lot about Tyler Johnson and then also Nazar from last years draft. Hes a smaller guy that plays a similar game and he just got injured last year and missed almost the entire year). The type of game he plays can be risky for his stature. And getting stronger isnt the end all fix, you can still be strong and injury prone.

Marner is a master at evading contact, he rarely gets hit, and he does a good job of preventing getting hit.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Its not just the injury, its how they play after coming back from an injury. Benson was injured during the playoffs and when he came back he was not the same type of player. Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self, whether it is psychological or something else (HP people talked a lot about Tyler Johnson and then also Nazar from last years draft. Hes a smaller guy that plays a similar game and he just got injured last year and missed almost the entire year). The type of game he plays can be risky for his stature. And getting stronger isnt the end all fix, you can still be strong and injury prone.

Marner is a master at evading contact, he rarely gets hit, and he does a good job of preventing getting hit.

I agree - Marner is soft.

 

[TageGod]

This is exactly what it was. HockeyProspect.com had essentially said this very thing in ranking him at 12. Tons of incredible skill and motor but for a small guy it’s not only the injury risk, but what an injury can do for the trajectory of his career vs someone bigger and stronger.

Funny Savoie was drafted earlier, is smaller, and was not considered an injury risk.

 

[Raistlin]

injury risk is also the prevalent rationale in media on why Vancouver and everone else prior let him slide. I believe they agonized over picking a lower ceiling guy vs a local kid as culture positive as Benson. I love this kid also, he is going to force everyone on his line to work harder to keep up with him. But the way he plays is risky, and he needs to modify his game somewhat when he plays bigger guys outside of western canada. He's going to be a great one esp at 13, if he can stay healthy.

 

[Realgud]

Its not just the injury, its how they play after coming back from an injury. Benson was injured during the playoffs and when he came back he was not the same type of player. Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self, whether it is psychological or something else (HP people talked a lot about Tyler Johnson and then also Nazar from last years draft. Hes a smaller guy that plays a similar game and he just got injured last year and missed almost the entire year). The type of game he plays can be risky for his stature. And getting stronger isnt the end all fix, you can still be strong and injury prone.

Marner is a master at evading contact, he rarely gets hit, and he does a good job of preventing getting hit.

I agree, that's a good point. Also, unlike Marner, Benson doesn't really evade contact, he invites it and usually uses that contact to his advantage to put opponents out of position.

 

[DatDude44]

I don’t think it’s injury risk why teams question the size/ style of play.

I think it’s the greasy style of play at his size and it actually working consistently against top 4 NHL Defenceman and centerman. He’s never gonna have the reach advantage and ability to shield the puck against the paraykos etc…. He’s gonna have to find other ways to make it work at the next level at times.

That said I love how he plays through contact/sticks I personally don’t think his game translating will be a problem at all.

But I understand if other nhl clubs whose jobs are on the line with that pick panning out would have some concern on him due to the size and style of play factor. Especially with a top 10 pick

 

[Satanphonehome]

Injury risk is an odd one too me. I never realized 170-pound men were more susceptible to concussions or torn knee ligaments than 200-pound men.

Has there been research done backing this up? It seems pretty hard to tie an injury to someone's size.

Garland, Gaudreau, Girard, Tatar, Panarin, Gourde, Bratt, Hichier, Hughes — all 175 pounds, all seemingly surviving just fine. Slavkovsky, Samuelsson, Greenway, Muzzin, Foligno, Gudbranson, Edmunson — all 220+, all slowed by injuries.

Risk of getting knocked of the puck more easily, game not translating due to strength and speed, sure. Getting hurt, call me skeptical

 

[RefsIdeas]

Injury risk is an odd one too me. I never realized 170-pound men were more susceptible to concussions or torn knee ligaments than 200-pound men.

Has there been research done backing this up? It seems pretty hard to tie an injury to someone's size.

Garland, Gaudreau, Girard, Tatar, Panarin, Gourde, Bratt, Hichier, Hughes — all 175 pounds, all seemingly surviving just fine. Slavkovsky, Samuelsson, Greenway, Muzzin, Foligno, Gudbranson, Edmunson — all 220+, all slowed by injuries.

Risk of getting knocked of the puck more easily, game not translating due to strength and speed, sure. Getting hurt, call me skeptical

I’m with you on not being too worried about it. There was one quote from an NHL scout in the Black Book this year that I thought was good though:

“You ever see a SUV crash into a Mini Cooper? It’s not pretty”

Now, I don’t think Benson is Mini Cooper small, and there’s obviously a bunch of different factors into it. But the quote does make sense.

 

[LongWayDown37]

I’m with you on not being too worried about it. There was one quote from an NHL scout in the Black Book this year that I thought was good though:

“You ever see a SUV crash into a Mini Cooper? It’s not pretty”

Now, I don’t think Benson is Mini Cooper small, and there’s obviously a bunch of different factors into it. But the quote does make sense.

Ha. Its a quippy press quote but I really don't think it makes much sense applied to hockey, especially in 2023. My guess is that scout started his career sometime back in the early 80s...

 

[Raistlin]

Injury risk is an odd one too me. I never realized 170-pound men were more susceptible to concussions or torn knee ligaments than 200-pound men.

Has there been research done backing this up? It seems pretty hard to tie an injury to someone's size.

Garland, Gaudreau, Girard, Tatar, Panarin, Gourde, Bratt, Hichier, Hughes — all 175 pounds, all seemingly surviving just fine. Slavkovsky, Samuelsson, Greenway, Muzzin, Foligno, Gudbranson, Edmunson — all 220+, all slowed by injuries.

Risk of getting knocked of the puck more easily, game not translating due to strength and speed, sure. Getting hurt, call me skeptical

in Vancouver, as early as May, most of the experts and reporters already hinted that Benson will slide. If you look at the canucks board, the choice is between Benson, Willander or Simashev at 11. When pressed regarding the pros and cons of getting each, Benson was mentioned that he plays a high risk game in a position that is not needed in Vancouver, but the fact that hes a local kid who works his tail off is really enticing, in the back of my mind, as a fan of a team full of small offensive wingers, and how undervalued they are, position scarcity is definitely a huge factor at drafts.

Position scarcity is the chief reason he is there at 13. Injury is second.

Year after year certain teams never get a big center or a high ceiling D with size, when the opportunity is there, the StLs, Detroits, Vancouver and PHX(???) cannot pass it over.... Willander was 100% the correct pick for van, but man, the opportunity cost of passing on Benson is going to be talked about for years.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I don’t get why people are so hung up on Benson’s size. Bedard measured in at the exact same height at the combine. Lots of excellent players in the league around that size (Point, Panarin, Hughes, Marner, etc.). He’s a little light, but he’s got plenty of time to put on weight. I don’t see any reason to believe his size will be the reason he can’t thrive in the NHL.

 

[Panthaz89]

Probably looked the 2nd best out of all the prospects during the tournament behind surprisingly Novikov who didn't really get much attention before it and understandably being a 6th round pick from a couple years ago.

 

[Brookbank]

Year after year certain teams never get a big center or a high ceiling D with size, when the opportunity is there, the StLs, Detroits, Vancouver and PHX(???) cannot pass it over.... Willander was 100% the correct pick for van, but man, the opportunity cost of passing on Benson is going to be talked about for years.

We just don't know and cannot know until the time has passed. The same things were being said about Zadina

 

[TommyDangles]

Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self, whether it is psychological or something else (HP people talked a lot about Tyler Johnson and then also Nazar from last years draft. Hes a smaller guy that plays a similar game and he just got injured last year and missed almost the entire year). The type of game he plays can be risky for his stature. And getting stronger isnt the end all fix, you can still be strong and injury prone.

Marner is a master at evading contact, he rarely gets hit, and he does a good job of preventing getting hit.

Where's the big list of smaller players getting injured? You could've just said "Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self." I don't know why it's just small players?

If anything bigger players seem to run into more injury issues.

 

[Peasy]

Where's the big list of smaller players getting injured? You could've just said "Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self." I don't know why it's just small players?

If anything bigger players seem to run into more injury issues.

I'm just simply explaining a reason why teams likely passed on him and why a ranking like HP had him lower than others (IIRC they had him 12, he went 13).

Tyler Johnson, frank nazar, Alex turcotte, Victor Arvidsson, Robby Fabbri are solid examples of smaller players that play more reckless games that haven't shown to be able to bounce back fully from injuries. Caufield is another smaller player who has had injury concerns early into his career (he doesnt necessarily play the same style as others i've mentioned but taking hits on a smaller body will always be a greater concern).

As I mentioned, benson got hurt in the playoffs and didn't look the same when he came back. Same thing happened to cristall this year.

I'm not saying that benson will be injured often and it will derail his career (I said well before the draft it would be dumb to let him fall out of the top 10), I'm just simply explaining a reason why teams might not have been as high on him as others.

 

[bigdog16]

Its not just the injury, its how they play after coming back from an injury. Benson was injured during the playoffs and when he came back he was not the same type of player. Theres a big list of smaller players getting injured and never getting fully back to their old self, whether it is psychological or something else (HP people talked a lot about Tyler Johnson and then also Nazar from last years draft. Hes a smaller guy that plays a similar game and he just got injured last year and missed almost the entire year). The type of game he plays can be risky for his stature. And getting stronger isnt the end all fix, you can still be strong and injury prone.

Marner is a master at evading contact, he rarely gets hit, and he does a good job of preventing getting hit.

Kind of weird we consider Marner small. He’s listed at 6’0 181.

People in the Bedard thread are trying to say he isn’t small at 5’9 185.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I think Benson is going to be one of the best power forwards in the game e5

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

This guy is a dude. I’d give up a lot for him. I think he’s gonna be a good player for a long time if he’s durable.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Kind of weird we consider Marner small. He’s listed at 6’0 181.

People in the Bedard thread are trying to say he isn’t small at 5’9 185.

That has to be Marner’s height in skates because he does not look 6’0” out there. But 180 is pretty slight for an NHLer either way.

Anyway, Benson and Bedard measured in at exactly the same height at the combine. Bedard is a bit more physically mature and thicker, but it’s certainly weird that HF (and apparently scouts?) have decided only one of them is too short.

 

[Peasy]

That has to be Marner’s height in skates because he does not look 6’0” out there. But 180 is pretty slight for an NHLer either way.

Anyway, Benson and Bedard measured in at exactly the same height at the combine. Bedard is a bit more physically mature and thicker, but it’s certainly weird that HF (and apparently scouts?) have decided only one of them is too short.

No one is saying hes too short to play. People are saying that his play style can lead to injury risk due to his stature.