GDT: vs. St. Louis

[Vagrant]

Glove side high

Death, taxes, glove side high.

 

[FaulkYouAho]

I started a "ref you suck" chant in the upper level during the second period another man joined in

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I honestly can't believe we're going to finish the season on a long losing streak after the March we had.

 

[Ole Gil]

Was looking through the shootout stuff out of curiosity.

Skinner 0-7 last two years. Kris Versteeg is 4 for 5 in Calgary after going 0-0 with Carolina last year.

Lehner in Buffalo has given up 8 goals on 8 shots.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I ain't even mad. That was a fun game to watch.

FWIW, that shootout point would have not only moved us above LA, it would have put us 1 point behind Philly and made tomorrow's game one of those absurd root-for-the-other-team situations. This way, there's no conflict of interest in hoping for the Canes to win tomorrow.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

skinner's one of those guys who is really bad at the shootout but fans who don't know how to look up stats get mad at the coaches when they don't put them in the shootout because they have a lot of actual hockey goals

 

[DaveG]

skinner's one of those guys who is really bad at the shootout but fans who don't know how to look up stats get mad at the coaches when they don't put them in the shootout because they have a lot of actual hockey goals

see also: early career Eric Staal

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Jordan in overtime is confusing as hell. When he jumped over the boards, my first thought was why is he being put out there in an offensive situation? The can opener penalty he took was well-deserved for the coaching staff that green lit that decision. Not using Tolchinsky in what is essentially his specialty in 3 on 3 was confusing as hell. What's worse was not using him in the SO and instead going with some questionable choices. I love Slavin, but he's still a defenseman.

Deployment in overtime is perhaps the reason we're not a playoff team. I know that sounds absurd, but we're always terrible in overtime because of the hyper conservative puck possession style employed. Having Jordan out there with Pesce and Slavin.... who's going to score here? Not the other team but not us either. With as bad as we are in shootouts, we should be rolling HEAVY offensive pressure. Leaving our two most skilled players on the bench in Teuvo and Tolchinsky, for all his warts, is just insanity. Especially with how Tolchinsky was going tonight. He's essentially an overtime/shootout specialist.

And I truly believe Cam Ward was the only guy in the building that didn't know Tarasenko was shooting there. Specifically glove high.

The biggest gripe that people should have with Peters is how he handles these situations. It's basically a coin flip for an extra point. You can't Corsi the extra point out of the other team.

prior to tonight, slavin was 2-for-5 in NHL shootouts and tolchinsky was 3-for-8 in the AHL and 0-for-1 in the NHL.

tolchinsky also doesn't have a single 3-on-3 point in his AHL career.

i love tolchinsky (actually i don't) but he hasn't shown a ton of results, even at his so called specialties. he's a below-average AHLer at this point who pretty got much called up because he's charlotte's worst forward under NHL contract and they didn't want to hurt their playoff push by sending up a good player...not sure why we're getting upset that he's not being used in an NHL overtime. he's a lot of flash and little results. you don't win games with pointless stickhandling displays and turnovers.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

But do you love Slavin...?

Glad to hear they worked their butts off for the fans and for Bickell.

 

[HisIceness]

There sure were a lot of Blues fans tonight.

Once again, the shootout continues to be a killer for this team. At least there was no playoff spot on the line tonight.

 

[Roboturner913]

i love tolchinsky (actually i don't) but he hasn't shown a ton of results, even at his so called specialties. he's a below-average AHLer at this point...not sure why we're getting upset that he's not being used in an NHL overtime. he's a lot of flash and little results. you don't win games with pointless stickhandling displays and turnovers.

Even so, everybody in the house wanted to see something like that dirty move from the prospect camp. It's not like there was anything to lose. Hell, put Bickell out there too, let's have a little fun with it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I made a pretty similar set of remarks when Staal-Slavin-Pesce came over the boards. What better time for a defensive unit than an offensive zone faceoff during 3-on-3 overtime?

Likewise, rolling out a Bickell-Ryan-McGinn line for an offensive faceoff with 3 minutes to go in a tie game. Then watching them bumble their way to an icing and being stuck on the ice for a d-zone draw that we were lucky to survive.

I know part of the problem is we just don't have enough good players. But Peters makes some weird, really weird late-game decisions.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Even so, everybody in the house wanted to see something like that dirty move from the prospect camp. It's not like there was anything to lose. Hell, put Bickell out there too, let's have a little fun with it.

tolchinsky hasn't been able to pull off something like that move in countless AHL overtimes. we were facing the st louis blues, not some random hurricanes prospects in a low-effort scrimmage.

 

[HisIceness]

BTW, I should have titled this thread "Lets win for Bickell"

 

[Vagrant]

prior to tonight, slavin was 2-for-5 in NHL shootouts and tolchinsky was 3-for-8 in the AHL and 0-for-1 in the NHL.

tolchinsky also doesn't have a single 3-on-3 point in his AHL career.

i love tolchinsky (actually i don't) but he hasn't shown a ton of results, even at his so called specialties. he's a below-average AHLer at this point who pretty got much called up because he's charlotte's worst forward under NHL contract and they didn't want to hurt their playoff push by sending up a good player...not sure why we're getting upset that he's not being used in an NHL overtime. he's a lot of flash and little results. you don't win games with pointless stickhandling displays and turnovers.

I don't know the circumstances behind Tolchinsky's AHL deployment in overtime, so I can't really comment as to why he hasn't had success there. I don't even know if he's one of the guys that Ulf uses in that situation... if that's the case then the issue might be lack of opportunity? I have no clue to be honest. But the shootout seems to be an area in which he excels. I'm not a huge fan of Tolchinsky. In fact, I was tagged as a hater for not being overly excited about him. But when you have a player that thrives in open ice (as based on evaluation largely made in scrimmages and preseason, admittedly), maybe you give that player a chance to prove it when he's called up. Same with Teuvo. Sending out guys like Jordan and two defensemen is just confusing as hell as a substitute. He can't skate extremely well and his offensive vision is limited to what's directly in front of him. He tries to use brute force and that's just not a style that's super effective in 3 on 3. When you have that much open ice, the free flowing European cycling style is usually your best bet. The rotation usually opens things up. You want your best skaters and passers out there for that reason. Sending out units like Aho-Lindholm-Slavin and Teuvo-Skinner-Faulk probably makes more sense. Not those exact lines, but similar makeup.... if you're hard up about winning the faceoff have Jordan jump out there until possession is established and then get him to the bench. It's just frustrating when the approach continually fails and we continue to see no adjustments. Check out the OTL column. We're tied for most in the NHL with Toronto. Ron Hainsey of all people was a regular OT shift taker during his time here.

As far as the shootout is concerned, Slavin doesn't appear to be a viable option. His hands just aren't good enough to consistently pull off his move. His predictability is alarming from the perspective of maintaining that percentage as well. But even still, Slavin wasn't as much of a head scratcher as Skinner. When you have a big, slow goalie like Hutton between the pipes, you want to get him moving side to side. I think that favors your players that are strong in the stickhandling aspect of the game. Aho had the right idea. But with guys like Teuvo and Tolchinsky at your disposal, it's tough to understand why you wouldn't give them a shot here. It's certainly not always about picking the guy that's the best shooter. And as far as the numbers go, sample sizes are far too small to draw meaningful conclusions on. Tolchinsky could be 3-8 because he hit the post 5 times. Who even knows. He could be 3 for 8 because he mishandled the puck and it went 5 hole 3 times out of 8. But when you're looking at the guys around the league that have success in this format, you see a lot of players that have quick hands and that skill is one that Tolchinsky has... perhaps at the expense of all others. I don't think you'd find too many takers to argue that his stickhandling isn't elite by almost any measure. Why not try to see if that skill translates?

 

[AstoriaIceNinja]

In fairness to Jeff Skinner, Tolchinsky and more or less everyone else, the shootout is just one of those things that is difficult to quantify by any other metric. It's tough to evaluate one's ability in that situation based on other hockey skills.

Take Tarasenko for instance. Everything about him makes it fair to assume he would be a shootout god; he has fantastic hands and skill, pretty good skating/speed, and is one of the best shooters in the world. He is a career 12 makes to 21 misses (36.4%) in the shootout.

Is it better than Skinner's career record? Sure it is (Skinner is 6 and 29, for anyone who is counting). But I'm just pointing out that it seems very difficult to sustainably maintain a high percentage of makes in shootouts. Case-in-point: the actual shootout god--Pavel Datsyuk--is a career 38.9% in the shootout. I'm no expert, but going 1v1 with the goalie in hockey seems to statistically favor the goalie given how big the goalies are and how small the goals are.

It also makes Tolchinsky's 3 makes in 8 attempts (37.5%) look way more impressive, albeit with a smaller sample size. And that three of eight is spread out over two years; last year he was 1-for-6, this year he is two-for-two. How 'bout them apples?

 

[Breakdowns]

Skinner is great
This game was a mess

NHL please get rid of shootout, I hate it, thanks!

 

[SaskCanesFan]

I ain't even mad. That was a fun game to watch.

FWIW, that shootout point would have not only moved us above LA, it would have put us 1 point behind Philly and made tomorrow's game one of those absurd root-for-the-other-team situations. This way, there's no conflict of interest in hoping for the Canes to win tomorrow.

Aren't we still in that situation, where a win would mean leapfrogging both LA and Philly?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Aren't we still in that situation, where a win would mean leapfrogging both LA and Philly?

I think we lose both tiebreakers.

edit: Even if we win, we wouldn't leapfrog Philly because we lose the tiebreaker. So we can shamelessly root to beat them. We would jump over LA, unless they win their game in which we lose the tiebreaker.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

I think we lose both tiebreakers.

edit: Even if we win, we wouldn't leapfrog Philly because we lose the tiebreaker. So we can shamelessly root to beat them. We would jump over LA, unless they win their game in which we lose the tiebreaker.

Ah, that's good to know! Thank you.

What is the tiebreaker anyways? I always thought it was ROW first.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ah, that's good to know! Thank you.

What is the tiebreaker anyways? I always thought it was ROW first.

Oh wow you're right, we actually do win the ROW over the Flyers, but not against LA.

I still have the ingrained reflex to just look at the W column.