Larry Brooks: Vitaly Kravtsov headed back to the KHL

[romba]

Personal jokes sounds like lockerroom banter/ribbing. Pretty standard stuff for any male 13 years old or older here. It's possible he felt 'I don't know you so don't make fun of my back zits', but to ask teamates to ease up comes off as a bit weak. Unless it was hazing or bullying which I'd understand but it's hard to tell. And the barbershop thing is also weird in the sense that he mentioned it in an interview which shows it really impacted him like "I can't even get a normal haircut in the US they only shave heads(!!!), my coaches don't understand my game at all and want to reshape me from scratch, and even my teamates are ass holes to me and make fun of me, get me outta here dad!"

Sounds really rough from his perspective, needs more informal support and friends from similar backgrounds to help him adjust the next time he's over

 

[The New Russian Five]

I believe he was speaking anecdotally about the barber thing providing context to his entire experience. I hope no one actually thinks that is the reason he left. But if you combine all the factors: High standards for himself that were not met, foreign country, not understanding the cultural differences, not getting good communication from the coaches, etc then it starts to add up. Think about everyday, he was coming to the rink thinking to himself that this is not what he imagined. Suddenly thinking he's not good enough to be in the NHL (which he didn't think was possible before camp). And while you're already down on yourself, your coaches don't seem to really care and your teammates have been making a lot of personal jokes of you. On top of that you can't get a proper haircut because you can't speak this language! Maybe you should talk all these issues through with your friends. Oh wait... You don't have any yet in this country and everyone you were friendly with are on the Rangers right now! Maybe you can talk this through with the guys on the the HFD team... the same guys that have been ribbing you.

You don't think all of this is overwhelming? I just imagined this kid going home after each practice thinking how miserable he is and just continually becoming more and more down on himself.

When I graduated from College I moved to China for a job because I wanted to go see the world. I didn't speak a lick of Chinese and no one spoke English. The first couple months was rough as hell and I questioned everyday if I had made the right decision. I also remember going for my first haircut and trying to explain what I wanted. They had no clue what I was saying and just starting cutting my hair. They gave me some weird emo haircut. It was terrible and the experience was horrible. But you know what, I did stick it out and it turned out the be the best experience of my life. But I was 22 and not 19. I'm pretty sure the 19 years old version of myself would have packed it in and just gone home. The experience can be ridiculously overwhelming for any youngster going at it on their own.

Also, as someone whose parents are born and bred Russians, the cultural divide between US and Russian mannerisms can be huge, especially when it comes to joking around and banter.

The kid had high expectations for himself that he didn't meet. And when he didn't meet those expectations things just started spiraling downward for him. Eventually he pressed the restart button and went home to recoup and try again next year. Some people who have never been in his shoes might think he is mentally weak, I see it as a young adult trying to gain back some sense of normalcy. He'll recharge the batteries have some chats with the org to clarify things and come back knowing what to expect this time. Let's step off from the ledge for a moment.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

@The New Russian Five amazing post. Had a draft along the same lines going but that is better than anything I could have said.

It’s real easy to say “he should have just sucked it up” but there is a ton going on here and it’s easy to forget he is just 19. Maybe I am getting soft in my old age but I can’t imagine how overwhelming that would have been for me at 19.

I don’t necessarily agree with the decision but can absolutely understand it. I still come down on the side of blaming the organization for not handling this well from a support, mentoring, and diplomatic standpoint. Trust me I understand the desire to say “figure it out kid” but as a manager/leader sometimes you have to adapt to the talent and personalities you have available vs the other way around.

This kid is super important to the future of the NYR and there should have been dedicated staff and a team in place to support that. Like his Dad not getting a visa? I’m not going to pretend to know immigration law and obviously this is a complicated time for that but I’d like to think the org could have made that happen as many large companies with pockets shallower than the NYR seem to be able to do. Maybe someone will school me on that and explain why it’s not possible.

 

[romba]

I believe he was speaking anecdotally about the barber thing providing context to his entire experience. I hope no one actually thinks that is the reason he left. But if you combine all the factors: High standards for himself that were not met, foreign country, not understanding the cultural differences, not getting good communication from the coaches, etc then it starts to add up. Think about everyday, he was coming to the rink thinking to himself that this is not what he imagined. Suddenly thinking he's not good enough to be in the NHL (which he didn't think was possible before camp). And while you're already down on yourself, your coaches don't seem to really care and your teammates have been making a lot of personal jokes of you. On top of that you can't get a proper haircut because you can't speak this language! Maybe you should talk all these issues through with your friends. Oh wait... You don't have any yet in this country and everyone you were friendly with are on the Rangers right now! Maybe you can talk this through with the guys on the the HFD team... the same guys that have been ribbing you.

You don't think all of this is overwhelming? I just imagined this kid going home after each practice thinking how miserable he is and just continually becoming more and more down on himself.

When I graduated from College I moved to China for a job because I wanted to go see the world. I didn't speak a lick of Chinese and no one spoke English. The first couple months was rough as hell and I questioned everyday if I had made the right decision. I also remember going for my first haircut and trying to explain what I wanted. They had no clue what I was saying and just starting cutting my hair. They gave me some weird emo haircut. It was terrible and the experience was horrible. But you know what, I did stick it out and it turned out the be the best experience of my life. But I was 22 and not 19. I'm pretty sure the 19 years old version of myself would have packed it in and just gone home. The experience can be ridiculously overwhelming for any youngster going at it on their own.

Also, as someone whose parents are born and bred Russians, the cultural divide between US and Russian mannerisms can be huge, especially when it comes to joking around and banter.

The kid had high expectations for himself that he didn't meet. And when he didn't meet those expectations things just started spiraling downward for him. Eventually he pressed the restart button and went home to recoup and try again next year. Some people who have never been in his shoes might think he is mentally weak, I see it as a young adult trying to gain back some sense of normalcy. He'll recharge the batteries have some chats with the org to clarify things and come back knowing what to expect this time. Let's step off from the ledge for a moment.

Some guys are more mature, usually after having faced adversity earlier in life. VK did not grow up that way and being alone in a new country with no friends, brand new culture, new bosses down on your performance, new coworkers teasing you etc. broke him down understandably. Others may have persevered through it and that jades our view of VK, but honestly most kids in his situation with his background would do the same thing.

 

[romba]

@HatTrick Swayze his dad is former Russian Military or Intelligence, I don't remember. Deep pockets ain't gettin that visa approved unfortunately.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

@HatTrick Swayze his dad is former Russian Military or Intelligence, I don't remember. Deep pockets ain't gettin that visa approved unfortunately.

Yea that makes more sense

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kravtsov fleeing back to Russia because he was nervous about getting a haircut is going to be a great meme

 

[nyr2k2]

I believe he was speaking anecdotally about the barber thing providing context to his entire experience. I hope no one actually thinks that is the reason he left.

Everyone apparently thinks he left because he couldn't get his heart rate up high enough.

But if you combine all the factors: High standards for himself that were not met, foreign country, not understanding the cultural differences, not getting good communication from the coaches, etc then it starts to add up. Think about everyday, he was coming to the rink thinking to himself that this is not what he imagined. Suddenly thinking he's not good enough to be in the NHL (which he didn't think was possible before camp). And while you're already down on yourself, your coaches don't seem to really care and your teammates have been making a lot of personal jokes of you. On top of that you can't get a proper haircut because you can't speak this language! Maybe you should talk all these issues through with your friends. Oh wait... You don't have any yet in this country and everyone you were friendly with are on the Rangers right now! Maybe you can talk this through with the guys on the the HFD team... the same guys that have been ribbing you.

If he couldn't imagine that he wasn't good enough for the NHL, that's on him. It's the best league in the world by a f***ing country mile. He was a very good KHL player, but not one that was so dominant that he should have come here expecting to just suddenly cave in the NHL.

As far as the communication, what about Shesterkin? Could he not ask his "elder" for some help? And all these personal jokes...you're making it sound like a locker room where he would sit and be picked on nonstop. The haircut thing is just insane, to me.

You don't think all of this is overwhelming? I just imagined this kid going home after each practice thinking how miserable he is and just continually becoming more and more down on himself.

I'm sure it is overwhelming. At the same time, a lot (most? almost all?) of guys stick it out and work through it. I'm not dismissing the challenges. But that a f***ing haircut was so significant to him that it sticks out in his mind as a major challenge is...unusual.

When I graduated from College I moved to China for a job because I wanted to go see the world. I didn't speak a lick of Chinese and no one spoke English. The first couple months was rough as hell and I questioned everyday if I had made the right decision. I also remember going for my first haircut and trying to explain what I wanted. They had no clue what I was saying and just starting cutting my hair. They gave me some weird emo haircut. It was terrible and the experience was horrible. But you know what, I did stick it out and it turned out the be the best experience of my life. But I was 22 and not 19. I'm pretty sure the 19 years old version of myself would have packed it in and just gone home. The experience can be ridiculously overwhelming for any youngster going at it on their own.

Good on you for sticking it out. Probably built a lot of character. I always has to stick out anything I signed up for. I think it's good for a developing 19/20-year-old to face some difficult circumstances and push through it.

Also, as someone whose parents are born and bred Russians, the cultural divide between US and Russian mannerisms can be huge, especially when it comes to joking around and banter.

The kid had high expectations for himself that he didn't meet. And when he didn't meet those expectations things just started spiraling downward for him. Eventually he pressed the restart button and went home to recoup and try again next year. Some people who have never been in his shoes might think he is mentally weak, I see it as a young adult trying to gain back some sense of normalcy. He'll recharge the batteries have some chats with the org to clarify things and come back knowing what to expect this time. Let's step off from the ledge for a moment.

He should see a sports psychologist to get him ready for next year. He'll have challenges then, too. Guys from all over the world come here as teenagers or 20-year-olds. It's not like he's charting new territory. He needs to get his head right, or he'll fail.

 

[Ola]

Again, I'm Mr. Liberal over here, usually incredibly sensitive to the needs, wants, fears, etc., of others. Some of this Kravtsov **** makes my eyes roll out of my head. He didn't understand how a haircut worked here so he got scared and left? Ok, sure, seems a little bit of an overreaction but I get it. But then you ask someone, an "adult" since apparently VK isn't one himself, and then you laugh about it afterwards. Guys need to be willing to learn, they can't just hide or run away from everything that's new and challenging.

I hope this kid grows the **** up (and lightens the **** up) because if he doesn't, he's going to run into the same stuff next time around. And that's ignoring the fact that his game itself ALSO needs some serious adjustment to North America.

I am not saying I get it, but I can’t help but to feel a bit confused.

Why? Isn’t he just giving some anecdotes of how it was living in another country? Why are we assuming that he left the AHL and went back to the KHL due to these things?

Every time I check this thread I see some really twisted things being discussed and I think OMG, what have Kravy said now? Then I go back and check and I can’t find anything tangible.

 

[kovazub94]

I believe he was speaking anecdotally about the barber thing providing context to his entire experience. I hope no one actually thinks that is the reason he left. But if you combine all the factors: High standards for himself that were not met, foreign country, not understanding the cultural differences, not getting good communication from the coaches, etc then it starts to add up. Think about everyday, he was coming to the rink thinking to himself that this is not what he imagined. Suddenly thinking he's not good enough to be in the NHL (which he didn't think was possible before camp). And while you're already down on yourself, your coaches don't seem to really care and your teammates have been making a lot of personal jokes of you. On top of that you can't get a proper haircut because you can't speak this language! Maybe you should talk all these issues through with your friends. Oh wait... You don't have any yet in this country and everyone you were friendly with are on the Rangers right now! Maybe you can talk this through with the guys on the the HFD team... the same guys that have been ribbing you.

You don't think all of this is overwhelming? I just imagined this kid going home after each practice thinking how miserable he is and just continually becoming more and more down on himself.

When I graduated from College I moved to China for a job because I wanted to go see the world. I didn't speak a lick of Chinese and no one spoke English. The first couple months was rough as hell and I questioned everyday if I had made the right decision. I also remember going for my first haircut and trying to explain what I wanted. They had no clue what I was saying and just starting cutting my hair. They gave me some weird emo haircut. It was terrible and the experience was horrible. But you know what, I did stick it out and it turned out the be the best experience of my life. But I was 22 and not 19. I'm pretty sure the 19 years old version of myself would have packed it in and just gone home. The experience can be ridiculously overwhelming for any youngster going at it on their own.

Also, as someone whose parents are born and bred Russians, the cultural divide between US and Russian mannerisms can be huge, especially when it comes to joking around and banter.

The kid had high expectations for himself that he didn't meet. And when he didn't meet those expectations things just started spiraling downward for him. Eventually he pressed the restart button and went home to recoup and try again next year. Some people who have never been in his shoes might think he is mentally weak, I see it as a young adult trying to gain back some sense of normalcy. He'll recharge the batteries have some chats with the org to clarify things and come back knowing what to expect this time. Let's step off from the ledge for a moment.

Great post!

I moved to US around the same age as Kravtsov and even having family support it was extremely stressful on a day-to-day basis. Simplest things could cause distress and this is something that sits in the back of your mind (for Kravtsov) on top of facing hockey related issues of the highest level.

 

[kovazub94]

Everyone apparently thinks he left because he couldn't get his heart rate up high enough.


If he couldn't imagine that he wasn't good enough for the NHL, that's on him. It's the best league in the world by a ****ing country mile. He was a very good KHL player, but not one that was so dominant that he should have come here expecting to just suddenly cave in the NHL.

As far as the communication, what about Shesterkin? Could he not ask his "elder" for some help? And all these personal jokes...you're making it sound like a locker room where he would sit and be picked on nonstop. The haircut thing is just insane, to me.


I'm sure it is overwhelming. At the same time, a lot (most? almost all?) of guys stick it out and work through it. I'm not dismissing the challenges. But that a ****ing haircut was so significant to him that it sticks out in his mind as a major challenge is...unusual.


Good on you for sticking it out. Probably built a lot of character. I always has to stick out anything I signed up for. I think it's good for a developing 19/20-year-old to face some difficult circumstances and push through it.


He should see a sports psychologist to get him ready for next year. He'll have challenges then, too. Guys from all over the world come here as teenagers or 20-year-olds. It's not like he's charting new territory. He needs to get his head right, or he'll fail.

I think you’re pretty harsh in your judgment. I agree that these issues could be overcome but even one year could be huge in reaching the level of maturity to make it a lot more bearable.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Geez. At this moment he's a pansy. Case closed. Hopefully, he will find something between his legs one day so Gorton didn't waste the 9th pick in the draft. Maybe also he'll realize his game sucked. Floating around, waiting for your linemates to do the dirty work and get you the puck so you can try fancy moves isn't how you have a long NHL future.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Bro, it's NYC. You want to tell me, he couldn't find Russian Town? A Russian barber, anywhere? pls - jk

People again disregard the human being. Expect him to be a machine, click, work.
I myself am also guilty of this somewhat, I'm surprised by this development, but at least I don't bear any grudges towards Kravtsov.
NYC (I've visited once, for three days, only Manhattan, mostly downtown) seems like it could be the loneliest place on god damn earth, if you alone.

On another side, I understand the cultural aspect* very much and it's definitely the most important factor here.
He just wasn't ready yet and he'd rather play in the KHL, than the AHL. That's his contractual right, there is that.

*the cultural issues have been stated en masse here already.

 

[kovazub94]

Very timely to this discussion is today’s Brooks’ article about the Rangers getting Tuomo Ruutu to help Kakko easier acclimate.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/31/rangers-enlist-fellow-finn-to-boost-kaapo-kakkos-spirits/

When the Rangers observed that Kaapo Kakko was feeling a bit down and perhaps lonely living life as an 18-year-old in a foreign land while attempting to adapt to the best hockey league in the world, the hierarchy did something about it.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Bro, it's NYC. You want to tell me, he couldn't find Russian Town? A Russian barber, anywhere? pls - jk

People again disregard the human being. Expect him to be a machine, click, work.
I myself am also guilty of this somewhat, I'm surprised by this development, but at least I don't bear any grudges towards Kravtsov.
NYC (I've visited once, for three days, only Manhattan, mostly downtown) seems like it could be the loneliest place on god damn earth, if you alone.

On another side, I understand the cultural aspect* very much and it's definitely the most important factor here.
He just wasn't ready yet and he'd rather play in the KHL, than the AHL. That's his contractual right, there is that.

*the cultural issues have been stated en masse here already.

But it is not NYC. It is Hartford.

A quick google search shows a 48/100 on its livability score.

On my one trip to Hartford for a wedding, We did a quick walk around the city to the liquor store and the only thing noticable were the amount of homeless people.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think you’re pretty harsh in your judgment. I agree that these issues could be overcome but even one year could be huge in reaching the level of maturity to make it a lot more bearable.

Maybe. It's just, so many people have been killing the Rangers, placing all the blame on them. Yet, everything this kid says or has said leaves me to believe HE was COMPLETELY unprepared for what he was walking into. Could the team have done better to help him acclimate? Maybe. But this isn't some naive kid coming from some small village in the Urals or something. He's a smart kid coming from a fairly privileged family with a Dad who should understand something about Western culture. At some point, we need to hold the player accountable for not having himself mentally prepared (even if he's young) and not just kill his team for "failing" him.

The heart rate test thing bothered me at first. Now, all these things about him being gobsmacked interacting with teammates and scared of a haircut make it pretty clear to me that he didn't have any clue what the team was trying to convey to him there.

 

[kovazub94]

Maybe. It's just, so many people have been killing the Rangers, placing all the blame on them. Yet, everything this kid says or has said leaves me to believe HE was COMPLETELY unprepared for what he was walking into. Could the team have done better to help him acclimate? Maybe. But this isn't some naive kid coming from some small village in the Urals or something. He's a smart kid coming from a fairly privileged family with a Dad who should understand something about Western culture. At some point, we need to hold the player accountable for not having himself mentally prepared (even if he's young) and not just kill his team for "failing" him.

The heart rate test thing bothered me at first. Now, all these things about him being gobsmacked interacting with teammates and scared of a haircut make it pretty clear to me that he didn't have any clue what the team was trying to convey to him there.

I mean I hope you don’t need to subscribe to thinking “if it’s not the team’s fault then it must be the prospect “. There’s a lot of room in between including the fault is mutual or neither. Kravtsov could have acted more maturely and the team could have been more “nurturing”.

Again look at Larry’s article. For local conspirators, is it really surprising that Ruutu was brought on the heels of what transpired with Kravtsov?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Geez. At this moment he's a pansy. Case closed. Hopefully, he will find something between his legs one day so Gorton didn't waste the 9th pick in the draft. Maybe also he'll realize his game sucked. Floating around, waiting for your linemates to do the dirty work and get you the puck so you can try fancy moves isn't how you have a long NHL future.

You must be a hit at parties.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

But it is not NYC. It is Hartford.

A quick google search shows a 48/100 on its livability score.

On my one trip to Hartford for a wedding, We did a quick walk around the city to the liquor store and the only thing noticable were the amount of homeless people.

Homeless people near a liquor store in a large City..? Unheard of!

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Homeless people near a liquor store in a large City..? Unheard of!

Hah.

No, but like it was every single block, and a lot. I am just saying that Hartford is not a great place... especially in this economy. Not sure if many would disagree.

 

[Hanji]

Very timely to this discussion is today’s Brooks’ article about the Rangers getting Tuomo Ruutu to help Kakko easier acclimate.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/31/rangers-enlist-fellow-finn-to-boost-kaapo-kakkos-spirits/

When the Rangers observed that Kaapo Kakko was feeling a bit down and perhaps lonely living life as an 18-year-old in a foreign land while attempting to adapt to the best hockey league in the world, the hierarchy did something about it.

Looks like the Kravtsov fiasco has opened some eyes within the Rangers’ brass.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Maybe. It's just, so many people have been killing the Rangers, placing all the blame on them. Yet, everything this kid says or has said leaves me to believe HE was COMPLETELY unprepared for what he was walking into. Could the team have done better to help him acclimate? Maybe. But this isn't some naive kid coming from some small village in the Urals or something. He's a smart kid coming from a fairly privileged family with a Dad who should understand something about Western culture. At some point, we need to hold the player accountable for not having himself mentally prepared (even if he's young) and not just kill his team for "failing" him.

The heart rate test thing bothered me at first. Now, all these things about him being gobsmacked interacting with teammates and scared of a haircut make it pretty clear to me that he didn't have any clue what the team was trying to convey to him there.

I don't disagree with you about immaturity being a factor here. Put there are a lot of posters in this thread claiming he's being mentally weak. If it is immaturity than that is fine. He will mature. He will learn from this experience and next year when he is a bit more mature and now realizes he can't just walk into training camp and assume he'll just be able to wow everyone. Let's not forget this is a kid that had a lot of hype around him and from what I can tell he follows rangers blogs and media quite a bit. It was WE the fans and the media that put the kid on a high horse. No shocker he was surprised and upset when he got tackled off the horse. Also, coming from a well off family only exasperates the issue. He probably hasn't had to deal with a lot of adversity in his life yet. This could very well have been his biggest failure yet. Let's give the kid some time to process that.

Can I re-iterate, the kid is freaking 19! And yeah some kids at 19 would have fought through it, and others don't have that fortitude YET. Everyone develops moth physically and mentally at different curves. But those that are calling him a bust and want to trade him ASAP, take a breather!

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean I hope you don’t need to subscribe to thinking “if it’s not the team’s fault then it must be the prospect “. There’s a lot of room in between including the fault is mutual or neither. Kravtsov could have acted more maturely and the team could have been more “nurturing”.

Again look at Larry’s article. For local conspirators, is it really surprising that Ruutu was brought on the heels of what transpired with Kravtsov?

Of course both parties probably have blame. I've just evolved a bit towards being more annoyed with the player, here.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Of course both parties probably have blame. I've just evolved a bit towards being more annoyed with the player, here.

That's fine to be annoyed with it. We all wished he had made a different decision obviously. But I hope people can be at least a bit understanding of his situation and realize it isn't out of the realm of possibility that this is just being an immature 19 year old, that there is still a very good and likely chance he will develop past this, and hopefully to stop labeling him as some type of head case for something that is all too common for someone his age.

 

[nyr2k2]

That's fine to be annoyed with it. We all wished he had made a different decision obviously. But I hope people can be at least a bit understanding of his situation and realize it isn't out of the realm of possibility that this is just being an immature 19 year old, that there is still a very good and likely chance he will develop past this, and hopefully to stop labeling him as some type of head case for something that is all too common for someone his age.

Sure, I have some measure of understanding for him. However, in my head, the onus will now be on him to come back ready to go, even if that means playing in Hartford. And if there are more issues then IDK, it will be really disappointing. But one thing at a time.