Agreed. I like Buch but one of my issues with him is that he is pushed off the puck far too easily
Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part VIII
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1. Kravy certainly had his issues, but with that said, he can think and play the game at the level of someone like Ziba. Just saying, that is a huge asterisk next to his production in the AHL if you get what I mean.
2. I don’t believe he can play center in the NHL, Kakko or Laf? Sure, not sure if it’s worth the growing pains and if it’s best use of assets, but sure. Kravy? Nah.
3. This kid is still really young. He got a lot of filling out to do. Like he grew several inches — it seems like — from start of D-1.
4. The problem with rushing kids — which we have done a lot of lately — is that you run out of options fast. With Kravy it wasn’t the biggest deal, but in hindsight he should have been left in the KHL another year. Kravy really would have benefitted from those last months of AHL hockey that was lost.
But it doesn’t have to be a big issue. Hopefully it isn’t. The big thing that he will get from just playing more is confidence. He lost confidence just making simple skill moves. So often he like just tried to move away from a checker in the neutral zone with all kinds of room to execute it in — but had a whack on his arms which had him lose control of the puck a little and then things went south, or whatever.
He certainly got it in him — and then some — to be a player that can take control of a puck and buy himself some time to find a play. And it’s when you struggle with the “core” of your game it gets really problematic from a confidence POV.
5. I firmly believe that with all things, you just must make a call on what avenues to pursue and then go all-in on them. You can’t make an half-arsed investment in one direction and hope for it to pay off.
I would definitely consider dealing Buch and then planting Kravy on the wing with Kreider and Ziba 5 on 5. Kakko on the 3rd line with Laf and top PP unit. Panarin leading one unit with Strome. Kreider and Zib would rub off on Kravy.
2. I don’t believe he can play center in the NHL, Kakko or Laf? Sure, not sure if it’s worth the growing pains and if it’s best use of assets, but sure. Kravy? Nah.
3. This kid is still really young. He got a lot of filling out to do. Like he grew several inches — it seems like — from start of D-1.
4. The problem with rushing kids — which we have done a lot of lately — is that you run out of options fast. With Kravy it wasn’t the biggest deal, but in hindsight he should have been left in the KHL another year. Kravy really would have benefitted from those last months of AHL hockey that was lost.
But it doesn’t have to be a big issue. Hopefully it isn’t. The big thing that he will get from just playing more is confidence. He lost confidence just making simple skill moves. So often he like just tried to move away from a checker in the neutral zone with all kinds of room to execute it in — but had a whack on his arms which had him lose control of the puck a little and then things went south, or whatever.
He certainly got it in him — and then some — to be a player that can take control of a puck and buy himself some time to find a play. And it’s when you struggle with the “core” of your game it gets really problematic from a confidence POV.
5. I firmly believe that with all things, you just must make a call on what avenues to pursue and then go all-in on them. You can’t make an half-arsed investment in one direction and hope for it to pay off.
I would definitely consider dealing Buch and then planting Kravy on the wing with Kreider and Ziba 5 on 5. Kakko on the 3rd line with Laf and top PP unit. Panarin leading one unit with Strome. Kreider and Zib would rub off on Kravy.
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
Oh man, this trade Buchnevich talk really saddens me. I still think he’s got more in him. But, if we do trade him, Kravtsov becomes my new Buchnevich. Love them both
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Idk, don't think Krav has the grit and snarl of Buchnevich
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
I think with due time, Kravtsov can turn into a power forward/playmaking hybrid with skill. Kind of like what Buchnevich is. Not that I’m comparing them, but they’re sort of similar. I wouldn’t rule out Kravtsov developing some grit to his game. I can see it. But I get your point.
Off-topic a little, but another thing is that Kravtsov is obviously more raw than Buchnevich. You would hope that he develops into a Buchnevich. If this wasn’t a hard cap league and if I had to choose to keep one, it would be Buchnevich. Still young, and although I see Kravtsov having a bit more upside, I’d be ecstatic if he develops into a Buchnevich. But there’s a chance it may not happen. But with a hard cap, I would have to choose Kravtsov, even though he’s more unproven.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
One of the things that may be a challenge for fans with all of this young, and now elite talent, is remembering that players develop on different timetables.
Lafreniere is a kid who could be very good, pretty quickly. Kakko, in theory, shouldn't be too far off from really putting things together. Fox came in and blew everyone away by looking like a 5 year pro. Shesterkin was everything we thought he'd be.
But some very talented guys may take a while. Be it Chytil, or Miller, or Kravtsov, or whoever, I hope we can remain patient.
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Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
With Chytil and Miller, I kind of expected it to take a little longer, although K’Andre’s freshman season got me very excited. But with Kravtsov, I was sort of guilty of that and thought he might be ready at the end of this season or the beginning of next. Now I see him developing in the AHL for at least one more full season and possibly being NHL-ready sometime during the season after. And that’s excluding when I think he’ll become a legit impact player (if everything goes right of course), which I think is about 3 seasons away. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s still very possible for him to surprise me sooner than later, but it’s better to temper expectations.
I kind of knew he had a lot of upside when we picked him at #9, so I’m willing to be much more patient with those types of early 1st round picks
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
What might be hard with those 2018 kids is that their talent is somewhat explosive. And like most explosive things, all it takes is a quick strike to light the fuse and you're heading for a world of excitement. Both guys are the types for whom there could be a moment or game where the light comes on, and they just keep progressing from there.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Remember that the Rangers said, (whether it’s true or not), that he was the 2nd highest rated forward on their board after Svechnikov. While things got a little hairy at the beginning of the season, from all accounts, he’s back in their good graces. And, what’s scary is that he now is probably their 3rd most talented forward, behind soon-to-be selected Lafreniere and Kakko. He gets to be overlooked, which could be very beneficial to his development.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
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Kravtsov is still a really exciting prospect to me. from my viewings he has that long stick work that a lot of our forwards don't have where he's really adept at takeaways and stripping pucks off of attackers and he's definitely not shy about trying it. frustratingly good stickwork is something that a lot of the best defensive forwards are good at and I'm not saying he'll be great defensively or anything but he certainly has a mind and mental processing to match that long stick
My worry with Kravtsov is that I think he just doesn't understand the process and I think he just wants to play on the rangers already and show he can prove himself. If they send him to the AHL for another year I can easily see him just giving in. He's also so immensely talented I'd rather just groom him at the NHL pace. He's the type of player who I think would thrive around all the talent the rangers have.
Gordon Bombay
HFNYR Head Coach
- Oct 13, 2006
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I remember you being pretty high on Howden when we got him. Do you see him as a guy who's taking longer and requires patience, or maybe a guy who just doesn't have it?
I only ask because he gets roasted on here and is still very young. Personally I don't see top 6 in his future but I do think he can carve out a nice bottom line career with some more strength.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Very good, and fair, question.
Howden to me is a guy who is entering a crossroads. He needs to figure out what his niche is in the NHL, and he needs to make adjustments to be effective in that niche.
At this point, based on how he's adjusted, I don't see a top six forward in him. I think that was a possibility when he first came up, but I don't think he has the thought-process or other attributes to reach that level.
I still think he can turn himself into a bottom six contributer with more strength, a focus on defense, and by not trying to be a line driver. The truth is, for much of his junior career, that's what he did. And it's difficult for some guys to transition out of that.
But I will say that he's at the stage where he's going to face stiff competition. Barron is going to challenge and push guys like him and Lemieux. At some point, a guy like Henriksson is potentially going to push him. And he's either going to overcome that competition, or he's going to get beat for a spot.
I will say that the coaches like him and the management likes him. Part of what they like is that they see a lot of technique that potentially translates if he can make some adjustments. Can he make the adjustments? Don't know. But at 22, I think he's reaching the age where he either becomes a part of the fabric of the team moving forward, or he's probably trade bait.
BKGooner
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2017
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I didn't think Buchnevich had the grit and snarl of Buchnevich until about 5 months ago.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Totally agree!!! while at the same time I wonder how the player feels and in a larger picture management?
Just over a yr ago we didn’t have Kakko or Laf... we hadn’t signed Panarin and hadn’t traded for Fox and Trouba...
The mixed signals don’t solely come from fans and the expectations, real or imagined are being created by the GM
Kravtsov420
Registered User
- May 4, 2019
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How are we going to say he doesn’t? Do people not forget when Buch first got here he was built like a twig and was a perimeter player?
It’s like people forget about this thing called experience, learning, and being really young? Think how skinny you were at that age.
In my opinion, it would be an utter travesty not to even give him a try to become someone like that. People are already writing him off and he literally did not play one regular season game for this team yet. It’s extremely bad asset management to not even try to see what you have there.
From the little bit I saw of him I think I saw some of the same problems Kakko had for much of the year with Kravtsov. Sometimes too much kinda standing, gliding, taking a swipe at a guy instead of pressuring the puck...a lot that really boils down to trying to process and figure out what's happening around him instead of just being aggressive etc. Against Carolina, Kakko pressured the puck much harder, was more aggressive and decisive over the ice, it was good. As he gets comfortable doing that he'll start finding the times when he has more space and can make the extra moves. Same with Kravtsov...a lot of times I think coaches want these guys to start simple and build on that. It's not just 'no you can't use your skills!' it's like, start by using your skills to keep it simple. Attack pucks, make quick decisions, don't try to make the homerun play every time because in the NHL that will never work. As you get used to how things are going you'll start seeing the opportunities to make the homerun play instead of forcing them.
I think especially coming from leagues with bigger ice and more space and less aggressive checking, these young forwards can be taken aback by the lack of space in the NHL and how you have to stay aggressive all the time
I think especially coming from leagues with bigger ice and more space and less aggressive checking, these young forwards can be taken aback by the lack of space in the NHL and how you have to stay aggressive all the time
If you think he's a top 6 guy here, who does he knock out?
To me, he's a Manny Malhotra. Everyone lost their mind when Muckler called our #6OA pick a third liner but the guy wasn't wrong. But the fact is, you need third liners too. Have good ones. Howden to me, projects as a good third line forward who is going to show up to work everynight. OK. Theres not enough pucks to make everyone a first liner now.
gravey9
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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My favorite aspects of Howden are his willingness to work, his grasp of where he needs to be on the ice. (Though he does chase the play a bit) and his awareness of what kind of player he needs to be to carve out a career. There's no pretentiousness in his game.
It remains to be seen if his body will allow him to have the career he's brain/skills are suited for. He needs to build core/base strength to translate his game into a long career and someone we can depend on come playoff time. If you can't cycle, muck and possess you won't find ice on a cup contender. he's too light right now, but he def has the height.
gravey9
Registered User
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Kravtsov is interesting in that he plays fast enough and processes the game well enough that I think his vision and IQ could one day allow him to be more productive then Buch. While he's a beanpole, his height and wingspan allow him to create a decent amount of leverage in battles. And he's decent at possessing due to speed and reach. But man if he can develop more man strength, he will be able to absorb more contact and dish it out. And I could see him being more of a line driver than Buch.
Just like Howden, Kravtsov's strength is the thing that needs to develop. You could see towards the end of the AHL season Kravtsov was figuring out that needed to get inside, get to the net to be effective in NA. But his core strength isn't quite there along with the fact he's still sorting out the NA game. But I felt like he was really figuring it out towards the end of the year. Finally, I think he thinks the game well enough to one day transition to center if its necessary. In some ways, I think he figured out the NA style quicker than Kakko. Some of that is VKs skating but i have a lot of faith in his ability to process the game.
How confident are the Rangers that he'll willingly report to Hartford if he doesn't make the team and earn a spot out of camp?
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Hasn’t been raised as a concern to this point.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Well, I don’t think he’ll knock anyone out of out top six. Personally I’d be happy if Chytil emerges and grabs that second line center spot, and Howden progresses and grabs that third line spot. That’s the ideal turnout for me at this point.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Not a knock on Howden but the way the forward group is shaping out and how in the current NHL a team cannot really get away with only two scoring lines, my hope is that Howden develops into a very good 4th liner, of the mold back a few years with Moore, Boyle etc that the Rangers had during their previous contention level. Cizikas type that gives you a 4th line that you’re not afraid to match against opponents top lines in any situation during any point of the game.
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