Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part IX

[SnowblindNYR]

Kind of interesting how Kravtsov has looked progressively worse since his first game here. The pattern of top 10 picks losing confidence over their first 10 games here continues on this team.

Edit: This isn't to say Kravtsov has looked bad. But he was very impressive his first few games. Lately has looked more pedestrian.

As soon as he got a little bit of that Quinn coaching.

 

[Doctyl]

Kind of interesting how Kravtsov has looked progressively worse since his first game here. The pattern of top 10 picks losing confidence over their first 10 games here continues on this team.

Edit: This isn't to say Kravtsov has looked bad. But he was very impressive his first few games. Lately has looked more pedestrian.

funny coincidence that all our talented young forwards follow this pattern.

 

[nyr2k2]

funny coincidence that all our talented young forwards follow this pattern.

Who else? Kakko and Lafreniere struggled from the get-go. Andersson was never particularly good. Not sure who else it applies to.

In general I think it's not uncommon for talented young players to break in looking great and then hit a bit of a wall. After a few games, there's a book on them. Other teams adjust. Then it's up to the kids to make adjustments themselves. I feel like that happens in all sports.

 

[Doctyl]

Who else? Kakko and Lafreniere struggled from the get-go. Andersson was never particularly good. Not sure who else it applies to.

In general I think it's not uncommon for talented young players to break in looking great and then hit a bit of a wall. After a few games, there's a book on them. Other teams adjust. Then it's up to the kids to make adjustments themselves. I feel like that happens in all sports.

Lafreniere struggling from the get go is revisionist history. He looked like a first overall talent for his first 5 games and progressively looked worse.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lafreniere struggling from the get go is revisionist history. He looked like a first overall talent for his first 5 games and progressively looked worse.

I'm not trying to revise anything, I just don't remember that. I could of course be wrong.

Anyway, I stand by the rest of what I said.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Lafreniere struggling from the get go is revisionist history. He looked like a first overall talent for his first 5 games and progressively looked worse.

So did Kakko. Not at the same level as Laf, but the same formula applies.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So did Kakko. Not at the same level as Laf, but the same formula applies.

True but what @nyr2k2 said is correct. A player enters the league, and he's a blank slate. Opponents are trying to figure him out.

After 5-10 games, there's tape, he's being discussed in pre-game meetings, they go over video with players on how best to defend against them, and all of a sudden there's a dip in production/performance. I don't really blame Quinn for that.

Quinn has his flaws, and I have been very vocal about those flaws. I also however have mentioned that he has changed his approach visibly since his COVID break. Sometimes a week or two on the sidelines can give you perspective. Take a step back and get a better view of things. I think our prospects will be fine in part because their talent will be enough to overcome certain challenges.

There are things to criticize re: Quinn. But firing him isn't magically resolving the issues people see on the ice. I prefer to see him improve as a coach rather than replacing him. Some people go crazy over Gallant but he was fired twice in the last 5 years. Makes you wonder what's up with that.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

True but what @nyr2k2 said is correct. A player enters the league, and he's a blank slate. Opponents are trying to figure him out.

After 5-10 games, there's tape, he's being discussed in pre-game meetings, they go over video with players on how best to defend against them, and all of a sudden there's a dip in production/performance. I don't really blame Quinn for that.

Quinn has his flaws, and I have been very vocal about those flaws. I also however have mentioned that he has changed his approach visibly since his COVID break. Sometimes a week or two on the sidelines can give you perspective. Take a step back and get a better view of things. I think our prospects will be fine in part because their talent will be enough to overcome certain challenges.

There are things to criticize re: Quinn. But firing him isn't magically resolving the issues people see on the ice. I prefer to see him improve as a coach rather than replacing him. Some people go crazy over Gallant but he was fired twice in the last 5 years. Makes you wonder what's up with that.

It was a rare and extreme example but look at what hiring Trotz did for the Islanders' defense. The defense went from worst to first and I don't believe there was large player turnover or anything.

 

[Doctyl]

It was a rare and extreme example but look at what hiring Trotz did for the Islanders' defense. The defense went from worst to first and I don't believe there was large player turnover or anything.

I think Trotz is also the best coach in the league. I’m not sure if there is another coach right now that singlehandedly can impact a team like he can.

 

[kovazub94]

Lafreniere struggling from the get go is revisionist history. He looked like a first overall talent for his first 5 games and progressively looked worse.

Speaking of revisionist history. This Never happened. Maybe you mistaken Alexis with Kakko, maybe he didn't stand out in a bad way when most of the team looked like shit.

In isolation Lafreniere went through the same pattern of a prospect coming into NHL where they do a bit freerolling initially using their junior / lower level experiences, then they start thinking about NHL adjustments and it causes struggles.

The problem most fans will have with offseason is that there won't b a full picture of where Lafreniere ended up in his D+1 year relative to other high draft picks because he'd be missing about 30 games on the back-end where his game should be coming together. For apples to apples comparison - from the full 20-21 season one should remove early games and just leave some 40+ games to compare against other prospects first half season stats in their D+1 NHL seasons.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think Trotz is also the best coach in the league. I’m not sure if there is another coach right now that singlehandedly can impact a team like he can.

Well, the next coach will have more to work with than those Islanders teams.

 

[Inferno]

It was a rare and extreme example but look at what hiring Trotz did for the Islanders' defense. The defense went from worst to first and I don't believe there was large player turnover or anything.

There was some course correction there as well from their previous coach (weight?) But yes trotz is a super defensive.coach who kills you with structure.
The rangers are a top 10 offensive team, a top 10 defensive team, top 15 pp team and top 10 pk team.

You could argue a new coach may bump up those numbers some..but you can also argue the youngest team in the nhl should also just naturally get better as they age and quinn deserves a ton of credit for all the aformentioned rankings.

This team missed the playoffs because their goaltending and top center were complete and utter no shows to start this year and they play in a really hard division while being super young and inexperienced.


Or...you know...the coach sucks and stuff I guess.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

There was some course correction there as well from their previous coach (weight?) But yes trotz is a super defensive.coach who kills you with structure.
The rangers are a top 10 offensive team, a top 10 defensive team, top 15 pp team and top 10 pk team.

You could argue a new coach may bump up those numbers some..but you can also argue the youngest team in the nhl should also just naturally get better as they age and quinn deserves a ton of credit for all the aformentioned rankings.

This team missed the playoffs because their goaltending and top center were complete and utter no shows to start this year and they play in a really hard division while being super young and inexperienced.


Or...you know...the coach sucks and stuff I guess.

And every time the Rangers played a playoff type game the last two seasons they come up at 0, not even competitive. I honest to God don't understand why any question about Quinn's competence is constantly met with sarcasm. He hasn't done one thing for this franchise. The offense is good because they have world class talent and the defense was shit last year so I give Martin more credit. I'll give him credit for letting his stars play their game, I guess.

 

[The New Russian Five]

And every time the Rangers played a playoff type game the last two seasons they come up at 0, not even competitive. I honest to God don't understand why any question about Quinn's competence is constantly met with sarcasm. He hasn't done one thing for this franchise. The offense is good because they have world class talent and the defense was shit last year so I give Martin more credit. I'll give him credit for letting his stars play their game, I guess.

I think the fact that rangers can absolutely dominate the lower half of the league, but struggle mightily to beat top teams is indicative to the disproportion between the amount of skill this team has (upper tier) and how they are coached (lower tier). Their skill level helps them pick apart lesser teams, but when they play teams with equal talent they get destroyed on the coaching front.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think the fact that rangers can absolutely dominate the lower half of the league, but struggle mightily to beat top teams is indicative to the disproportion between the amount of skill this team has (upper tier) and how they are coached (lower tier). Their skill level helps them pick apart lesser teams, but when they play teams with equal talent they get destroyed on the coaching front.

Or sometimes when we have more talent. Talent-wise the Islanders are the 5th or 6th most talented team in the division. They're more complete but not as talented as the Rangers. But Quinn keeps getting pantsed by Trotz. Trotz compared to Quinn is Belichick compared to Gase.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

can't wait until next season so I never have to read the catch-all excuse "youngest team in the NHL!" again. As long as NJ doesn't sign Chara and Marleau this summer, we can put that to bed for good hopefully.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

can't wait until next season so I never have to read the catch-all excuse "youngest team in the NHL!" again. As long as NJ doesn't sign Chara and Marleau this summer, we can put that to bed for good hopefully.

Somehow Mika and Panarin, two of our three best players pushing thirty don't count.

 

[chosen]

From today's Athletic, talking about Tarasenko:

"Pronman’s thoughts: The Rangers have a ton of good wingers, so in order to make this deal work in all likelihood one has to go the other way. Alexis Lafrenière and Kaapo Kakko are non-starters, so the most obvious candidate is Kravtsov. He was a top 10 pick by the Rangers, but it would be fair to say if you redid that draft now, based on talks with NHL scouts, he would go in the teens or 20s in all likelihood. He is a highly skilled playmaker with size whose game lacks speed."

 

[Leetch3]

From today's Athletic, talking about Tarasenko:

"Pronman’s thoughts: The Rangers have a ton of good wingers, so in order to make this deal work in all likelihood one has to go the other way. Alexis Lafrenière and Kaapo Kakko are non-starters, so the most obvious candidate is Kravtsov. He was a top 10 pick by the Rangers, but it would be fair to say if you redid that draft now, based on talks with NHL scouts, he would go in the teens or 20s in all likelihood. He is a highly skilled playmaker with size whose game lacks speed."

that should say "the rangers have a ton of good wingers, so they shouldn't be interested in tarasenko"

 

[OrlandK]

Don't get nervous. The purpose of the Athletic article was to speculate on what teams would have to give up to get Tarasenko, not whether they are interested in doing so.

Can't imagine the Rangers would go there for every possible reason - cap space, 3 shoulder operations, Left Wing, etc.

These articles are what we get in the "in between season". My guess is that the actual package, especially with so many cap strapped teams, will be much less than the speculation, just like when the Rangers acquired Trouba. I could see the Islanders taking a "flyer" when the price drops. Gotta give them credit for taking the Lightning to 7 games. especially with Lee on the sidelines. Lou may think this is their window and go for it.

 

[EdJovanovski]

From today's Athletic, talking about Tarasenko:

"Pronman’s thoughts: The Rangers have a ton of good wingers, so in order to make this deal work in all likelihood one has to go the other way. Alexis Lafrenière and Kaapo Kakko are non-starters, so the most obvious candidate is Kravtsov. He was a top 10 pick by the Rangers, but it would be fair to say if you redid that draft now, based on talks with NHL scouts, he would go in the teens or 20s in all likelihood. He is a highly skilled playmaker with size whose game lacks speed."

Lmao
1) There is absolutely zero reason for the Rangers to pursue Tarasenko
2) Kravtsov is one of the fastest skaters on our team

Can't believe people pay to read what a bunch of bozos write on that site lol

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Lmao
1) There is absolutely zero reason for the Rangers to pursue Tarasenko
2) Kravtsov is one of the fastest skaters on our team

Can't believe people pay to read what a bunch of bozos write on that site lol

he can skate but he doesn't play fast, they're right about that. Only a few of our players do tbh, Chytil, Kreider and Zib

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

he can skate but he doesn't play fast, they're right about that. Only a few of our players do tbh, Chytil, Kreider and Zib

I'd put Gauthier in that group.

 

[EdJovanovski]

he can skate but he doesn't play fast, they're right about that. Only a few of our players do tbh, Chytil, Kreider and Zib

KHL played at a lot slower pace than the NHL, I’d wait until he’s played an actual season before jumping to judgement and labeling him someone who plays slow lol
I don’t know how slow he can play though when on most shifts he’s the first forechecker in and the first forward back on the back check, almost always before the center and often before one of the dmen

 

[Unusual Suspect]

Lmao
1) There is absolutely zero reason for the Rangers to pursue Tarasenko
2) Kravtsov is one of the fastest skaters on our team

Can't believe people pay to read what a bunch of bozos write on that site lol

Yeah, not when we can read your brilliance for free. Point taken.