Value of: Veteran for Matthews' wing

[Rufus]

you're not going to see a single good answer in this thread. Might as well throw a bunch of assets at SJ for Marleau. There's not really anyone else out there worth pursuing

 

[Stephen]

Rick nash

Even though I hate Rick Nash, that almost seems to make sense...

 

[4thline]

I'd target a guys like Wilson, Frolik, Anders Lee. Matthews doesn't need someone to hold his hand, just a solid 15-25 goal guy that he won't have to drag along behind him.

 

[Maukkis]

I'd target a guys like Wilson, Frolik, Anders Lee. Matthews doesn't need someone to hold his hand, just a solid 15-25 goal guy that he won't have to drag along behind him.

Could honestly see Wilson being available, although the Predators aren't producing too well.

A swap of Wilson and Carrick could make sense, as the whole top 4 of the Predators are logging massive minutes every game (Josi 13th in the league, Subban 15th, Ellis 22nd, Ekholm 28th). A somewhat reliable 5D could help those four a bit. On top of that, it could be a shakeup the team needs. Toronto gets some depth for their forward core, locked up for a couple of years. Expansion wise, it makes sense for the Preds, and doesn't ruin Toronto.

 

[Randy Randerson]

It should seem low, especially when you consider the fact that you're removing two thirds of Matthews' goals.

Do the same for Laine and you'll end up with 8,3% shot percentage. Isn't there a sizeable gap even then?

That is the same for Laine, including the first game Laine's shooting % is actually higher - 22.9% for the season, 10.3% for the season for Matthews: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...17&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shootingPctg

Oh, and Matthews is leading the rookie class in shots: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shots

and 8th overall in shots: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shots


with Laine having 4 more points in 2 more games, all Matthews has to do is continue doing exactly what he is doing and the gap will close itself. His play isn't lacking in the slightest, he's just hitting posts like crazy

 

[Maukkis]

That is the same for Laine, including the first game Laine's shooting % is actually higher - 22.9% for the season, 10.3% for the season for Matthews: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...17&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shootingPctg

Oh, and Matthews is leading the rookie class in shots: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shots

and 8th overall in shots: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shots


with Laine having 4 more points in 2 more games, all Matthews has to do is continue doing exactly what he is doing and the gap will close itself

You're still cherry picking, which makes the whole argument pointless. You can make a lot of players look bad by removing their best performance.

Matthews can continue hitting posts all he wants. I wish you all the best having him for the future and continue to be happier with having Laine instead of him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

You're still cherry picking, which makes the whole argument pointless. You can make a lot of players look bad by removing their best performance.

Matthews can continue hitting posts all he wants. I wish you all the best having him for the future and continue to be happier with having Laine instead of him.

Haha it's awesome that you're criticizing someone for cherrypicking when looking at a single month of results and declaring Laine the winner of hockey.

a string of 14 games at a 3.8 shooting % isn't cherrypicking, its a trend, and one that you should pay attention to if you want to judge early returns

22.9% and 10.3% are the whole season, both are historically unsustainable in opposite directions

Matthews won't continue hitting posts, it will normalize. Laine is great, Matthews is every bit as good at a more important position

 

[Juxtaposer]

you're not going to see a single good answer in this thread. Might as well throw a bunch of assets at SJ for Marleau. There's not really anyone else out there worth pursuing

Marleau would never waive for Toronto, a rebuilding team, towards the end of his contract/career. If not for that, I think we could definitely find a fair deal.

 

[4thline]

Could honestly see Wilson being available, although the Predators aren't producing too well.

A swap of Wilson and Carrick could make sense, as the whole top 4 of the Predators are logging massive minutes every game (Josi 13th in the league, Subban 15th, Ellis 22nd, Ekholm 28th). A somewhat reliable 5D could help those four a bit. On top of that, it could be a shakeup the team needs. Toronto gets some depth for their forward core, locked up for a couple of years. Expansion wise, it makes sense for the Preds, and doesn't ruin Toronto.

Agreed. Preds are one of the few teams that it looks like there'll be a legitimate logical reason to make expansion prep moves. Isles are another.

 

[Maukkis]

Haha it's awesome that you're criticizing someone for cherrypicking when looking at a single month of results and declaring Laine the winner of hockey.

a string of 14 games at a 3.8 shooting % isn't cherrypicking, its a trend, and one that you should pay attention to if you want to judge early returns

22.9% and 10.3% are the whole season, both are historically unsustainable in opposite directions

Matthews won't continue hitting posts, it will normalize. Laine is great, Matthews is every bit as good at a more important position

Didn't claim that, but whatever.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

Haha it's awesome that you're criticizing someone for cherrypicking when looking at a single month of results and declaring Laine the winner of hockey.

a string of 14 games at a 3.8 shooting % isn't cherrypicking, its a trend, and one that you should pay attention to if you want to judge early returns

22.9% and 10.3% are the whole season, both are historically unsustainable in opposite directions

Matthews won't continue hitting posts, it will normalize. Laine is great, Matthews is every bit as good at a more important position

The point he's making is you need to use the same dataset for both players. You were cherry picking because you were comparing Matthews without his best game (where he had over 10% of his total shots) to Laine's full season.

As a side note, 10.3% is low but fairly common over long time periods while >20% is totally unsustainable for Laine. Wheeler, Couture, Voracek, etc are all around the 10%-11% over a few years.

I fully expect Laine to produce less as the season goes on, while I'm not sure Matthews will start producing at a higher than .8 ppg rate (which is very good, especially for a rookie).

 

[Randy Randerson]

Again, not related to Laine. Matthews slumping has nothing to do with Laine, whether you want it or not.

Matthews has to be better if he wants to catch up with Laine, that's just plain and simple.

^

Didn't claim that, but whatever.

Seems like you said "Matthews has to be better if he wants to catch up to Laine"

what you must have meant is "Matthews needs to be less unlucky if he wants to catch Laine in points"

also, not sure if you've looked at any of the advanced stats for either of them, looks very slanted in one direction

 

[Habs Halifax]

NO, stay at the bottom of the standings for another year and trade more expiring assets at trade deadline to get more picks! Why pick up a overpaid veteran this year? To be a middle of the pack team and just miss the playoffs? Sounds like a Brian Burke plan to me and this is coming from a Habs fan. Be patient Leafs fans. Good times are coming if you keep piling draft picks. You need to add more top 4D prospects.

 

[WTFMAN99]

They should just play JVR on his wing...

 

[Mike Jones]

Ironically enough, PA Parenteau and Michael Grabner may have looked good with Matthews. Some general versatility and lots of speed...

Funny - I was thinking of Pappy as I was reading through this thread. He would have been a good choice.

In saying that, however, I don't know if the winger has to be big name. Remember Warren Young? Back in the 80's the Pens brought him up from the minors and he found his way onto the same line as a kid named Lemieux. He wound up scoring something like 40 goals that one season.

So who is in the AHL who could come up and score 40 goals with Matthews?

 

[Randy Randerson]

The point he's making is you need to use the same dataset for both players. You were cherry picking because you were comparing Matthews without his best game (where he had over 10% of his total shots) to Laine's full season.

As a side note, 10.3% is low but fairly common over long time periods while >20% is totally unsustainable for Laine. Wheeler, Couture, Voracek, etc are all around the 10%-11% over a few years.

I fully expect Laine to produce less as the season goes on, while I'm not sure Matthews will start producing at a higher than .8 ppg rate (which is very good, especially for a rookie).

was highlighting the trend, even including the one game that was obviously an anomaly (how many 4 goal games can a player expect in a career with 66.3% shooting?) Matthews shooting% is low for his talent.

the available data set isn't big enough to be significant

We're arriving at the same point, those percentages will normalize and the points gap will close. I think both Laine and Matthews will be low-mid teens percentage shooters over their careers, both should be elite scorers. If Matthews continues playing the way he is, he'll likely beat a .8ppg rate, generating a lot of good chances and just hitting posts

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Rick nash

I think Rick Nash would be the most realistic possibility here, And Toronto could afford pretty much all of his cap it here.

 

[Maukkis]

^



Seems like you said "Matthews has to be better if he wants to catch up to Laine"

what you must have meant is "Matthews needs to be less unlucky if he wants to catch Laine in points"

also, not sure if you've looked at any of the advanced stats for either of them, looks very slanted in one direction

"Better than Laine" =/= "the winner of hockey"

There are better players than Laine. Matthews has not been one of them so far.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Dwight King, Dustin Brown, or Marian Gaborik interest you?

Gaborik is glass and can't stay healthy, Brown is grossly overpaid and is regressing. King might not be to bad but i doubt any interest in Gaborik or Brown.

 

[Nordic*]

Foligno would look good there.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't think Matthews slumping is related to Laine in any way.

The situation is pretty bad when you have to lean on totally unrelated things to prove your point.

No, it totally is. No one would be saying anything if Laine wasn't lighting it up. The media and main boards have been pounding his face into Leaf fans due to the back and forth between the two. Some of our fans are joining their band wagon and getting upset rather than having patience.

That's what I mean by that. Also Laine is a possession black hole play W while Matthews has a really low shooting% over his slump while still being an elite possession player playing C with worse linemates, with comparable QoC.

Again, not related to Laine. Matthews slumping has nothing to do with Laine, whether you want it or not.

Matthews has to be better if he wants to catch up with Laine, that's just plain and simple.

The comparisons between Laine and Matthews are inevitable because they are the same draft class, etc. The media has hyped the Crosby versus Ovechkin in the same way for years.

If it bothers some fans, then a simple solution would be to not bother reading those threads/posts.

Back to subject of the OP, panicking to get a veteran I think is not necessary or a good strategy.

 

[Beacon]

I think Rick Nash would be the most realistic possibility here, And Toronto could afford pretty much all of his cap it here.

What would the Leafs give for Nash? He had an off-year last season playing injured, but he's been pretty good this year.

 

[M2Beezy]

Hansen for Toronto 1st

 

[Sheva7]

I'll drive Chimera to the airport for you

 

[Trxjw]

Rick nash

What would the Leafs give for Nash? He had an off-year last season playing injured, but he's been pretty good this year.

Brooks already reported in June that Nash will not waive his NTC for any Canadian teams.