Value of: Vejmelka or Ingram to EDM

[FerrisRox]

I don't see how Ingram is an improvement over Skinner.

 

[TFHockey]

I don't see how Ingram is an improvement over Skinner.

He is an improvement over Calvin Pickard, and who can push Skinner for the starting goaltender position. I think that kind of pressure can make Stu a better goalie.

If he falters you have another guy who can start in the playoffs who has demonstrated he can play quality minutes in stints.

 

[ManofSteel55]

They are 4 points out of a playoff spot and Vejmelka has been great this year. And their third string goalie is a guy who has barely played above the AHL.

The incentive to not move Vejmelka is to remain in competition for a playoff spot and to remain an interesting team that can win some games in a new market that is showing signs it wants to be competitive even if they fall short.

There’s a lot more to it than “oh they are for sure going to lose him so they have to take their 75th third round pick in the last five years just because…”

I’m not saying they won’t ultimately end up making a move but at this very moment? A non-premium pick for Vejmelka isn’t terribly appealing.

Of course any moves for a goalie from Utah would be based on them falling back in the playoff run. I think I expressed that when I suggested that they likely aren't moving him right away, and it would be later in the year. If they are still firmly in the wildcard spot, you are correct, they may not trade him if they don't feel that Stauber can back Ingram up competently enough to make it worthwhile.

I don't see how Ingram is an improvement over Skinner.

I don't think the Oilers will be looking for a replacement for Skinner. I think they may look for an upgrade on Pickard, and then let whoever that is battle it out with Skinner for the starting job in the playoffs. Or they may even just look for someone more reliable than Pickard to pick up the reigns if Skinner falters, because he does have a history of that as well.

 

[Figgy44]

Goalies don't generally return 1st round value in trades. Even the better ones

I didn't necessarily mean straight up. I said a basis of. I just meant for Utah to have an incentive to make a move on one of their goalies, they need something with a potentially higher ceiling than just straight magic beans (because they already have a ton of those).

I wonder if that means that if Utah makes a move, it'll be a slightly bigger package than just their goalie that gives them a higher chance at quality over quantity in the long run?

 

[SjMilhouse]

Utah doesn't really need futures, they need players to help them win now and into the future.

If Veggie isn't going to be extended (due to term/cost/both) then they should move him. With that said, the fans love him so I can see a scenario where they keep him simply to help continue to build the fan base as a new team.

If Veggie or Ingram are moved, my guess is that it would be part of a larger deal. Basically one of the two for picks that are then packaged as part of bigger splash to get some help at Forward.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Utah is in the Central Division.

The Oilers are in the Pacific Division.

This.

And Edmonton will make the playoffs comfortably. Utah - though I'm pulling for them - likely won't make it with the teams ahead of them. A trade such as this would only be made once it's clear they're out. Utah also has Stauber, who looks like he's ready for fulltime NHL work behind Vejmelka, so they can definitely trade Ingram.

I will, however, say I don't like Ingram as a target for the Oilers. He's been shit this year. Vejmelka would be a great target, but I understand why Utah wouldn't deal him.

 

[chaser17]

I was at the game, 3 goals on 14 shots isn't ideal but what goals do you think should be saved? The 2 on 1 backdoor tap in? Or the breakaway rebound where nobody covered Dubois? Didn't love the point shot goal but don't think he ever saw it.

 

[Mr Positive]

They are 4 points out of a playoff spot and Vejmelka has been great this year. And their third string goalie is a guy who has barely played above the AHL.

The incentive to not move Vejmelka is to remain in competition for a playoff spot and to remain an interesting team that can win some games in a new market that is showing signs it wants to be competitive even if they fall short.

There’s a lot more to it than “oh they are for sure going to lose him so they have to take their 75th third round pick in the last five years just because…”

I’m not saying they won’t ultimately end up making a move but at this very moment? A non-premium pick for Vejmelka isn’t terribly appealing.

Imo no trade is happening now. Although, the longer you wait, the less of a sellers market it will be.

Of course, maybe the Utahs will put some wins together and not sell anyone. So this thread is definitely looking towards the deadline.

Although maybe New Jersey will overpay for a deal now

 

[TFHockey]

Imo no trade is happening now. Although, the longer you wait, the less of a sellers market it will be.

Of course, maybe the Utahs will put some wins together and not sell anyone. So this thread is definitely looking towards the deadline.

Although maybe New Jersey will overpay for a deal now

I get that UHC fans want a homerun trade for one of their guys. Every fan base and poster on here wants that.

I don't think either Vejmelka or Ingram are worth 1st round picks,

Will either return that at the TDL? I dunno. Anything is possible I guess.

I think a 2nd and a 3rd and Calvin Pickard is a reasonable offer.

Time will tell

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I was at the game, 3 goals on 14 shots isn't ideal but what goals do you think should be saved? The 2 on 1 backdoor tap in? Or the breakaway rebound where nobody covered Dubois? Didn't love the point shot goal but don't think he ever saw it.

They showed an angle on the broadcast that he saw it the whole way, he just blanked on it.

The trouble with these arguments is we see opposition goalies stop US on these chances all the time. You need your goaltender to make the big save once in awhile, especially in a tight game against a top flight opponent with top flight goaltending.

I don't hate Skinner as much as some do, but it's pretty clear we need a 1B option moreso than a Pickard-style backup.

 

[TFHockey]

They showed an angle on the broadcast that he saw it the whole way, he just blanked on it.

The trouble with these arguments is we see opposition goalies stop US on these chances all the time. You need your goaltender to make the big save once in awhile, especially in a tight game against a top flight opponent with top flight goaltending.

I don't hate Skinner as much as some do, but it's pretty clear we need a 1B option moreso than a Pickard-style backup.

So fellow Oilers fans do we like the look of these particular targets?

1. Karel Vejmelka (G 1B)
2. Marcus Pettersson (2nd Pair RHD)
3. Mathieu Olivier (3-4th line energy guy, RW, can PK, 10 goals, wears a letter)

Players headed out:

Jeff Skinner, Calvin Pickard, various picks and prospects.

 

[russ99]

They showed an angle on the broadcast that he saw it the whole way, he just blanked on it.

The trouble with these arguments is we see opposition goalies stop US on these chances all the time. You need your goaltender to make the big save once in awhile, especially in a tight game against a top flight opponent with top flight goaltending.

I don't hate Skinner as much as some do, but it's pretty clear we need a 1B option moreso than a Pickard-style backup.

Our fans want a top 10 goalie who can bail us out from our defensive blunders so the skaters can cheat for offense. Did you look at Skinner's stats? He's gotten his save percentage backup to .900 after a horrible start.

He's easily league average and has heaters and cool runs. And he's signed at a cheap cap hit for two more years.

What real possibility is there to get that #1 top end starter with the assets we have available? Slim and none.

Pickard has had a number of good starts as well, don't see the need to just throw him away because fans are insecure with Skinner and want to add someone to somehow can both be acquired on the cheap and be good enough to take over playoff starts from Skinner.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Our fans want a top 10 goalie who can bail us out from our defensive blunders so the skaters can cheat for offense. Did you look at Skinner's stats? He's gotten his save percentage backup to .900 after a horrible start.

He's easily league average and has heaters and cool runs. And he's signed at a cheap cap hit for two more years.

What real possibility is there to get that #1 top end starter with the assets we have available? Slim and none.

Pickard has had a number of good starts as well, don't see the need to just throw him away because fans are insecure with Skinner and want to add someone to somehow can both be acquired on the cheap and be good enough to take over playoff starts from Skinner.

The problem with league average is the Oilers, by all the advanced stats and underlying numbers, are an elite defensive team that's really good at limiting dangerous chances against.

League average on a top 5 team isn't good enough

 

[Czechboy]

So fellow Oilers fans do we like the look of these particular targets?

1. Karel Vejmelka (G 1B)
2. Marcus Pettersson (2nd Pair RHD)
3. Mathieu Olivier (3-4th line energy guy, RW, can PK, 10 goals, wears a letter)

Players headed out:

Jeff Skinner, Calvin Pickard, various picks and prospects.

I'm close to this actually!

1. Please Vej (but I want him and Stu to fight for that spot and tell them both nothing is guaranteed.. good luck!)
2. Marcus Pettersson yes please
3. I'm fine with Kane in bottom 6 after using his LTIR space .. things will change after TDL but we will have a healthy Kane and Ryan available for bottom 6 duties and that seems to be a nice bonus. Rotate Philp, Kane and Ryan around. A healthy Kane could be a massive pain in the ass in the bottom 6 skating around and banging. Put him with Kane and just watch the hate build around the NHL for us.

If we legit only traded for those 2 at TDL I'd be thrilled. I still am hoping to see how Savoie fairs in a NHL look as well. He may be a very nice late season bonus (kind of like Holloway in last playoff run)

Plus it would meet my 'we need a Czech and a Finn' to win a cup quota.lol Kap and Vej FTW!

Vej with a shutout last night too. Him in Oil silks would be a dream come true for me and I like Skinner. Having said all that.. I think they think Gus is the answer and will stick with PIckard/Stu and I hope I'm DEAD wrong here.

 

[VeteranPresence]

So fellow Oilers fans do we like the look of these particular targets?

1. Karel Vejmelka (G 1B)
2. Marcus Pettersson (2nd Pair RHD)
3. Mathieu Olivier (3-4th line energy guy, RW, can PK, 10 goals, wears a letter)

Players headed out:

Jeff Skinner, Calvin Pickard, various picks and prospects.

We do all that and we're a heavy Cup favorite I'd think. No real holes if everyone stays healthy.

 

[russ99]

The problem with league average is the Oilers, by all the advanced stats and underlying numbers, are an elite defensive team that's really good at limiting dangerous chances against.

League average on a top 5 team isn't good enough

Limited cap space and first rounders already traded on a top five team doesn't allow you to fix it to that extent.

BTW: The concern with this "elite defensive team" isn't expected goals in the regular season, it's in the postseason can they defend a 1 goal lead late, can they handle being penned in their own zone against physical forecheckers without giving up a goal? Those "advanced stats" don't quantify those things.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Limited cap space and first rounders already traded on a top five team doesn't allow you to fix it to that extent.

BTW: The concern with this "elite defensive team" isn't expected goals in the regular season, it's in the postseason can they defend a 1 goal lead late, can they handle being penned in their own zone against physical forecheckers without giving up a goal? Those "advanced stats" don't quantify those things.

... yes they do?

and what does forechecking have to do with goaltending

 

[ManofSteel55]

Limited cap space and first rounders already traded on a top five team doesn't allow you to fix it to that extent.

BTW: The concern with this "elite defensive team" isn't expected goals in the regular season, it's in the postseason can they defend a 1 goal lead late, can they handle being penned in their own zone against physical forecheckers without giving up a goal? Those "advanced stats" don't quantify those things.

The concern should also be "do we let in weak goals, or goals that put us behind our opponents", and, "can our goalies steal a game for us occasionally". Right now, we don't have the right answers to those questions.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So fellow Oilers fans do we like the look of these particular targets?

1. Karel Vejmelka (G 1B)
2. Marcus Pettersson (2nd Pair RHD)
3. Mathieu Olivier (3-4th line energy guy, RW, can PK, 10 goals, wears a letter)

Players headed out:

Jeff Skinner, Calvin Pickard, various picks and prospects.

Looks like a home run to me.