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Pre-Game Talk: Vegas vs Toronto (tuesday game)

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Apex Predator said:
I know it’s a back to back and Liljegren will probably get in tomorrow but it’s disappointing to see him sitting again today.
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Agreed piss poor coaching decision to have Holl in and Lily sits healthy .. makes zero sense .. Lily could help out Muzzy whereas Holl just does not have da hockey skills
 
Gary Nylund said:
What if the PP isn't working well, stick to the plan?
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The PP is working well. Regardless, you don't make silly decisions off of one type of surface result in 16 minutes of ice time that's clearly not even caused by the thing you're attempting to change.

We're also not kicking Matthews off the PP, even though it has performed well in a small sample without him. We're also not concluding that Marner is the sole driver of our team's defensive play, even though our GA has skyrocketed in his absence.

Because that would be ridiculous...
 
I’m not going to get into whether or not Marner should be on PP1 but the struggle on the PP isn’t just this season with him on it. This stretches all the way to last year. I don’t think it’s crazy to start asking that question. Our PP let us down and is one reason why we didn’t beat Montreal.
 
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LeafalCrusader said:
Keefe going to play Holl 25 minutes again tonight?
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Holl is to Keefe, what Hyman/Cleary were to Babcock. Just this irrational love for the guy and insistent on playing him. BTW I love Hyman now, but a few years ago when he was just stone hands, it was so frustrating watching him out there all the time. But the guys come a long way.
 
Dekes For Days said:
The PP is working well. Regardless, you don't make silly decisions off of one type of surface result in 16 minutes of ice time that's clearly not even caused by the thing you're attempting to change.

We're also not kicking Matthews off the PP, even though it has performed well in a small sample without him. We're also not concluding that Marner is the sole driver of our team's defensive play, even though our GA has skyrocketed in his absence.

Because that would be ridiculous...
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It does suggest our elite defence stems from the forwards and our blue line is over rated. The team defence doesn't look the same with both marner and kase out, but mainly marner.
 
DraftSchmaft said:
It does suggest our elite defence stems from the forwards and our blue line is over rated.
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No, it doesn't. All any of this suggests is that Leaf fans on this board like to draw ridiculous conclusions about players they dislike from surface results in small samples with no context.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
No, it doesn't. All any of this suggests is that Leaf fans on this board like to draw ridiculous conclusions from small samples with no context.
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The word suggest doesn't mean conclude. I actually watch the games so know it's reasonable to think the forwards contribute the most to the defence.
 
DraftSchmaft said:
I actually watch the games so know it's reasonable to think the forwards contribute the most to the defence.
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We all (well, most of us) watch the games. We have good defensive forwards, which certainly helps, but team defensive results are much more about the play of defensemen than forwards.
 
Dekes For Days said:
We all (well, most of us) watch the games. We have good defensive forwards, which certainly helps, but team defensive results are much more about the play of defensemen than forwards.
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For some teams. Not ours. We'll agree to disagree.
For me our elite defensive numbers are 1.) Forwards 2.) Campbell 3.) D
 
Dekes For Days said:
For all teams.
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Doesn't matter where we think it comes from then, as long as it holds up. So far it hasn't without Marner and I haven't seen anything from the blue line to suggest our defence is elite solely based on their contribution. To get into the elite status its mostly our forwards and goaltending. Neither of us are going to sit here and show our work so it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

Also note I labeled it a current wild card. I never concluded Marner is the sole reason for our defensive play. We have let in 29 goals in 7 games without Marner, so it is a current wild card. Wild card is a pretty common term to use in sports perhaps you read too deep into it.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Goaltending is very impactful on goals against, and we have gotten very good goaltending, but we are also 8th in all-situations xGA, which while impacted by our forwards (especially on the PK), is overall driven more by our defensemen than our forwards. We have a very good group of defensemen.

The original point was, surface results will fluctuate in small samples, whether we're talking about goals against or PP scoring. Attributing the small sample surface results we've seen in either with no context to a lack of Marner is ridiculous. We didn't go on a PP hot streak just because Marner was gone (which is even more evident when one actually looks at the goals that were scored). Similarly, we haven't allowed 4+ goals against in Marner's absence just because Marner is gone.

Drawing conclusions from outcomes in small samples with no context, especially about individual players, is highly problematic.
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https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018...-are-way-more-accomplished-on-the-200-foot-g/

Hitchcock predicted our current defensive success back in 2018. Even without Hyman the Leafs maintained the 200 ft, quick support no space play. I'm sticking with what I've been seeing since it's exactly as Hitchcock said to this day. Word for word as he describes is the kind of defence we play. It can't exist without the forwards driving it and in my opinion the defence will quickly crumble without the 200 ft forwards taking away all the space.

It's nice seeing his prediction come true that the Leafs will eventually score 5 goals and only let in 1-2
 
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DraftSchmaft said:
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018...-are-way-more-accomplished-on-the-200-foot-g/

Hitchcock predicted our current defensive success back in 2018. Even without Hyman the Leafs maintained the 200 ft, quick support no space play. I'm sticking with what I've been seeing since it's exactly as Hitchcock said to this day. Word for word as he describes is the kind of defence we play. It can't exist without the forwards driving it and in my opinion the defence will quickly crumble without the 200 ft forwards taking away all the space.

It's nice seeing his prediction come true that the Leafs will eventually score 5 goals and only let in 1-2
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Interesting interview. I've always said that defence is a team game and I'm happy that we are now a team that plays defence as a team. As far as who contributes more, defence or forwards, I suspect there is no way to measure that and it really doesn't matter anyway. As long as everyone's with the program and the team is executing well, that's all that matters. And what matters most is that we have Campbell in net, I hope we can still say that next season.
 
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Is Liljegren still in that weird limbo where he can't play unless Marner/Engvall are back?

He should definitely be getting back into some game action.
 
DraftSchmaft said:
Ken Hitchcock on the Toronto Maple Leafs: "They get credit for how fast they play offensively, but their strength is how fast they play defensively... They are way more accomplished on the 200-foot game than they get credit for" - Maple Leafs Hotstove

Hitchcock predicted our current defensive success back in 2018. Even without Hyman the Leafs maintained the 200 ft, quick support no space play. I'm sticking with what I've been seeing since it's exactly as Hitchcock said to this day. Word for word as he describes is the kind of defence we play. It can't exist without the forwards driving it and in my opinion the defence will quickly crumble without the 200 ft forwards taking away all the space.

It's nice seeing his prediction come true that the Leafs will eventually score 5 goals and only let in 1-2
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An interesting note is Hitchcock discussed the importance of the 3C on a team with a great 1-2 punch. That 3rd line guy needs to play the tough minutes and does the heavy lifting. It feels like we've been looking for that since Kadri was traded and found it in Kampf. His offense definitely lacks but Kase helps makeup for that as his running mate on the 3rd line
 
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HogTown06 said:
I made the mistake of checking out Vegas GDT. One of the posters claims that if Eichel can get back to form he's better than Matthews... :laugh:

GLG!
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Eichel is great but I don't see how he ends up better than a 60 goal/100 point two-way centre. Matty's play hit another level once Keefe got hired, a level Eichel hasn't hit
 
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leafsfan5 said:
Eichel is great but I don't see how he ends up better than a 60 goal/100 point two-way centre. Matty's play hit another level once Keefe got hired, a level Eichel hasn't hit
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I think skill wise he is capable of that... but unless his atitude has changed he'll never reach it. Maybe it was a Buffalo thing... guess we'll see, but he was not in a mental state where he could ever reach his potential.

He was never as good as Matthews, and never will be.
 
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