Vegas Golden Knights - One of the Greatest Franchises Already?

[Kranix]

Only teams founded in the 1970s deserve greatness

 

[Free Vaseline]

Yes

 

[Deranged Oreo]

They are the luxurious pillow in the pillow fight.

 

[Summer Rose]

They are S tier cap manipulators. Again, the NHL needs to close this LTIR loophole as just about every cup champion has won the cup through it's > $10M hole.

They already did, more or less. Playoff rosters (in terms of the 20 players dressed for the game) need to be compliant with a maximum contract value, and placing a player on LTIR only grants you up to about $3.9 million (don't quote me on the exact number, but it's around this range give or take) in cap relief.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Gotta take chances and do everything in your power to win a title..

Vegas coulda easily just kept doing their thing this year and inch along and owners keep making money but NO.. mccrimmon saw that the players needed a jolt and he brings in Torts. Unreal move to see that the players needed a Torts type coach to change things up

Florida had a good team with Huberdeau having huge point totals.. Zito says NOPE, this isn’t working and he trades him away and brings in Tkachuk and then we all saw the domination for back to back Cups.

Tampa loved being aggressive and doing their thing too and won Cups

Canes obviously haven’t won a Cup in years but they are obviously constantly making blockbusters(trading Necas, trading Rantanen etc) and they are in the finals

Waaaaaaaay too many gun shy GMs out there that don’t do everything they can to try to win. Too many GMs are happy with being mediocre and just sneak into the playoffs and consider that successful.

The big boys do everything they can to win

Vegas is the cream of the crop.. I can’t wait to see what’s up their sleeve over the next couple years when lots of cap starts opening up when high priced older guys come off the books. They will be making massive signings and continuing on with their domination

 

[Hale The Villain]

Gotta take chances and do everything in your power to win a title..

Vegas coulda easily just kept doing their thing this year and inch along and owners keep making money but NO.. mccrimmon saw that the players needed a jolt and he brings in Torts. Unreal move to see that the players needed a Torts type coach to change things up

Florida had a good team with Huberdeau having huge point totals.. Zito says NOPE, this isn’t working and he trades him away and brings in Tkachuk and then we all saw the domination for back to back Cups.

Tampa loved being aggressive and doing their thing too and won Cups

Canes obviously haven’t won a Cup in years but they are obviously constantly making blockbusters(trading Necas, trading Rantanen etc) and they are in the finals

Waaaaaaaay too many gun shy GMs out there that don’t do everything they can to try to win. Too many GMs are happy with being mediocre and just sneak into the playoffs and consider that successful.

The big boys do everything they can to win

I agree with most of this, but I wouldn't lump the Canes in with the rest of those teams.

Trading Necas instead of giving him a big long-term contract is the opposite of going for it, and they are currently sitting on 10M in cap space and 4 1st round picks over the next 3 seasons.

If they end up losing in the finals this year they might be kicking themselves that they didn't trade some of their picks/prospects away to boost their roster.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I agree with most of this, but I wouldn't lump the Canes in with the rest of those teams.

Trading Necas instead of giving him a big long-term contract is the opposite of going for it, and they are currently sitting on 10M in cap space and 4 1st round picks over the next 3 seasons.

If they end up losing in the finals this year they might be kicking themselves that they didn't trade some of their picks/prospects away to boost their roster.

Ya I wasn’t going to add Canes in but I had to give them credit.. they are aggressive in offseasons and aren’t afraid to shake things up with big trades

 

[SEALBound]

Vegas is at the peak of their cycle. Eventually, their players will get old and they will start a new cycle.

Happens with most teams. I give Vegas a ton of credit for not getting attached to guys. They are all in on the business of winning a cup. To quote Charles Montgomery Burns "Family, Friends, Religion. These are the three demons you must slay to be successful in business".

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Just an awesome organisation from top to bottom , much respect to them

They also play a great brand of hockey

These are the teams they've already surpassed historically in only 10 years of existence

Buffalo Sabres
Columbus Blue Jackets
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
Ottawa Senators (1992 incarnation)
San Jose Sharks
Utah Mammoth (formerly the Arizona Coyotes)
Vancouver Canucks
Winnipeg Jets

 

[BLNY]

They are the model organization.

Already in year 7 of their contention window, in their 3rd cup final , always make the right moves at the right times.


And they didn’t need to tank to do it hmmm

If they win this series I think they’re cemented as the best franchise around right now

They certainly took advantage of expansion rules that favored them more than any modern era team before or since.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

They certainly took advantage of expansion rules that favored them more than any modern era team before or since.

Like what? What absolute superstars were gifted to them by the expansion draft?

 

[amikaro]

Sadly, they are the most successful franchise. So much success in such a short period is remarking. The quoata must be nuts.

 

[Kegs]

Honestly, I am counting the modern NHL as beginning around 1980 but probably 1994. Stretching back through the seeds of time there is no franchise I think better in league history. The closest is perhaps Philadelphia as they had to build from scratch to win back to back and were routinely very good (with a couple dips) till the 90's.

I am throwing out all the original six bullshit as teams like Montreal and Toronto has huge advantages in rules and scouting. Fully half the league (Chicago, New York, and Boston) were chumps and push overs.

The original expansion years was the equivalent of taking ECHLers and sticking them on a franchise.

This was a little easier than the 90's expansion but the league is so much harder to win a cup now as the 80's.

16 of 21 teams made the playoffs
1 of 21 won the cup

16 of 32 make the playoffs
1 of 32 win the cup

As a Penguin fan, there isn't a better franchise in the league.

Toronto has its own set of rules?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Did tampa not make the finals in 15,20,21,22?

Chicago 10,13,15

Boston in 11,13,18?

If that’s the metric we’re using for success.

 

[Gabrielor]

A combination of:

-Incredibly sharp front office

-Owner(s) don't ever seem to disturb the process

-the best expansion draft process ever available to a new team, by a country mile

-minimal player loyalty

-complete latitude to tamper with players and the cap


have all combined to make a juggernaut.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Vegas deserves some credit for the way they've ran the organization obviously, but at the same time, they're playing the game on easy mode and it feels like it's just been a never-ending positive snowball effect.

First they took advantage of the League being stupid during the expansion draft, making deals and acquiring players who other teams didn't need to move on from. Obviously it's easy to make those deals when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I mean, just think about Florida giving up Marchessault and Smith to protect Alex Petrovic and shed some money - money that they ended up spending anyway in the end on other players and Petro eventually ended up in the minors. In another world, Florida just gives up Petrovic and the Knights 1st line never happens. Or the Ducks let Vegas to select Sami Vatanen instead of giving up Theodore. Teams made the wrong choices, Vegas didn't make them do that.

As we saw with Seattle - GM's smartened up and prepared a lot better, not giving Seattle the opportunity to fleece them. Teams just opted to let Seattle pick a player and move on.

Then they get lucky with Wild Bill Karlsson. He started pre-season as a bottom 6 center and no one, including Vegas, had any idea he would have the season or career he's had. Vegas was supposed to be weak down the middle and Shipachyov (KHL signing) was supposed to be the guy who might be their top center. In the end Karlsson LED the league in goals by centers. That's insane and good fortune for Vegas to say the least.

Due to their successful inaugural year, everyone sees Vegas as a place where you can win - something an expansion team shouldn't have. Vegas is a destination where people want to live. It has that X factor many other places lack. So as a result, every time there's a big name player on the move, they want to go there.

And lo and behold, they get some rare opportunities to acquire players like Jack Eichel and Mark Stone, players who normally almost never become available. Since they started with a bunch of assets, they had the means to acquire those players. And when Eichel or Stone are asked where would you like to play, of course Vegas is at the top of the list. You'd never hear players talk about Winnipeg or Columbus like that no matter how good their teams are, unless it was for family reasons. This is just an advantage the Knights have.

On top of this you add in the fact that Vegas is tied for lowest tax state in the entire NHL, which obviously helps with managing the cap and signing players to good contracts.

Contrary to a lot of people, I have nothing against Vegas. But it's objectively true that it's just easier to manage this team. I don't think that they've needed to pull countless rabbits out of their hats. All they had to do was jump on the opportunities that fell on their lap, do a decent job at managing a hockey team and f*** up as few things as possible.

 

[Alexei Yashvalev]

One of the greatest franchises that also has to end the press conference immediately and blacklist the journalists involved if anyone asks a question about their goalie.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Vegas deserves some credit for the way they've ran the organization obviously, but at the same time, they're playing the game on easy mode and it feels like it's just been a never-ending positive snowball effect.

First they took advantage of the League being stupid during the expansion draft, making deals and acquiring players who other teams didn't need to move on from. Obviously it's easy to make those deals when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I mean, just think about Florida giving up Marchessault and Smith to protect Alex Petrovic and shed some money - money that they ended up spending anyway in the end on other players and Petro eventually ended up in the minors. In another world, Florida just gives up Petrovic and the Knights 1st line never happens.

As we saw with Seattle - GM's smartened up and prepared a lot better, not giving them the opportunity to fleece them. Teams just opted to let Seattle pick a player and move on.

Then they get lucky with Wild Bill Karlsson. He started pre-season as a bottom 6 center and no one, including Vegas, had any idea he would have the season or career he's had. Vegas was supposed to be weak down the middle and Shipachyov (KHL signing) was supposed to be the guy who might be their top center. In the end Karlsson LED the league in goals by centers. That's insane and good fortune for Vegas to say the least.

Due to their successful inaugural year, everyone sees Vegas as a place where you can win - something an expansion team shouldn't have. On top of this, Vegas is a destination where people want to live. It has that X factor many other places lack. So as a result, every time there's a big name player on the move, they want to go there.

And low and behold, they get some rare opportunities to acquire players like Jack Eichel and Mark Stone, players who normally almost never become available. Since they started with a bunch of assets, they had the means to acquire those players. And when Eichel or Stone are asked where would you like to play, of course Vegas is at the top of the list. You'd never hear players talk about Winnipeg or Columbus like that no matter how good their teams are, unless it was for family reasons. This is just an advantage the Knights have.

On top of this you add in the fact that Vegas is tied for lowest tax state in the entire NHL, which obviously helps with managing the cap and signing players to good contracts.

Contrary to a lot of people, I have nothing against Vegas. But it's objectively true that it's just easier to manage this team. I don't think that they've needed to pull countless rabbits out of their hats. All they had to do was jump on the opportunities that fell on their lap, do a decent job at managing a hockey team and f*** up as few things as possible.

Vegas was so stacked with assets from the expansion draft that they were able to trade for Eichel, Stone, and lose a trade tree (Tatar-Suzuki-Pacioretty) so badly that it would set most teams back a decade and still be where they are today.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Vegas deserves some credit for the way they've ran the organization obviously, but at the same time, they're playing the game on easy mode and it feels like it's just been a never-ending positive snowball effect.

First they took advantage of the League being stupid during the expansion draft, making deals and acquiring players who other teams didn't need to move on from. Obviously it's easy to make those deals when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I mean, just think about Florida giving up Marchessault and Smith to protect Alex Petrovic and shed some money - money that they ended up spending anyway in the end on other players and Petro eventually ended up in the minors. In another world, Florida just gives up Petrovic and the Knights 1st line never happens.

As we saw with Seattle - GM's smartened up and prepared a lot better, not giving them the opportunity to fleece them. Teams just opted to let Seattle pick a player and move on.

Then they get lucky with Wild Bill Karlsson. He started pre-season as a bottom 6 center and no one, including Vegas, had any idea he would have the season or career he's had. Vegas was supposed to be weak down the middle and Shipachyov (KHL signing) was supposed to be the guy who might be their top center. In the end Karlsson LED the league in goals by centers. That's insane and good fortune for Vegas to say the least.

Due to their successful inaugural year, everyone sees Vegas as a place where you can win - something an expansion team shouldn't have. On top of this, Vegas is a destination where people want to live. It has that X factor many other places lack. So as a result, every time there's a big name player on the move, they want to go there.

And low and behold, they get some rare opportunities to acquire players like Jack Eichel and Mark Stone, players who normally almost never become available. Since they started with a bunch of assets, they had the means to acquire those players. And when Eichel or Stone are asked where would you like to play, of course Vegas is at the top of the list. You'd never hear players talk about Winnipeg or Columbus like that no matter how good their teams are, unless it was for family reasons. This is just an advantage the Knights have.

On top of this you add in the fact that Vegas is tied for lowest tax state in the entire NHL, which obviously helps with managing the cap and signing players to good contracts.

Contrary to a lot of people, I have nothing against Vegas. But it's objectively true that it's just easier to manage this team. I don't think that they've needed to pull countless rabbits out of their hats. All they had to do was jump on the opportunities that fell on their lap, do a decent job at managing a hockey team and f*** up as few things as possible.

Luck or shrewd planning? To add to your list of shrewd moves they picked up Theodore and Marner as well and Carter Hart. Fired Cassidy shortly before the playoffs and hired Torts. I lean more towards shrewd planing myself. That’s just far too many ‘lucky’ events to be a coincidence.

And of course good players want to play for good organizations. Florida, Chicago, Tampa and other top teams all benefited from that in the past.

 

[Richard]

Toronto has its own set of rules?

yes,

• Territorial sponsorship systems for junior players.
• Limited competition for talent.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Both of those teams went to three straight SCF. Back to back cups.

Sure, but Vegas did what they’ve been doing through smart trades and signings

Both those teams had to tank to get a few of their stars.

Vegas has had 1 top draft pick and they even blew that one

 

[PistolPete]

If you examine the quality of the league, the depth of competition, and the parity of knowledge around the NHL is there a better franchise, in perhaps all of sports, than the Golden Knights?

Expansion team in 2018 -- been to three cups, won one (so far). 8 playoff seasons out of 9 years.

What makes this MORE impressive is this is being done in a 32 team league with parity insurance (aka salary cap).

It is being done in the era of the internet and instant communications - a scout can watch almost any player at any time.

It is being done without any goofy or artificial enhancements (Montreal getting pick of the French Canadian litter, etc.)

Finally it is being done with free and full access to different player sources (Europe - dead Wings can't draft all the Russians in the 7th round).

With all that being said, if the Knights win the cup this year, I don't think there really is a better franchise in sport. IS there?

I know the Knights will be the class of the NHL that's for sure. Who can best them? You cannot trot out some 50's canadians teams when they were playing in a 6 team league in which two of the teams were ALWAYS dogshit (literally from 1941 to 1970 the Blackhawks won one cup and the bruins won in 1970 original six was a THREE team league).

Montreal never got first dibs on French players

 

[BLNY]

Like what? What absolute superstars were gifted to them by the expansion draft?

It was discussed in the lead up to their expansion draft. It was discussed when the rules were announced for Seattle. The league set the rules for the draft, they took advantage. So much so that the league changed them for Seattle.

• Protected Lists
• Mandatory exposure of players with NMCs
• Limited to protecting one goalie
• Younger players no longer guaranteed exempt status

MacPhee leveraged the rules smartly to make a number of deals that benefited him. They got picks to take certain players, etc.

MAF might have been the closest to a "superstar" and the Pens gave them a 2nd round pick to take him over Murray. Theodore from the Ducks for futures. They were able to put together a far better starting roster than the 10 teams that joined between 1992 and 2016. Instead of a minor league team, they had a playoff caliber team from the start.

Vegas Golden Knights Expansion Draft Transactions | Vegas Golden Knights

Get to know all of the players selected by the Golden Knights

www.nhl.com

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

One of the most Hated lol

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Luck or shrewd planning? To add to your list of shrewd moves they picked up Theodore and Marner as well and Carter Hart. Fired Cassidy shortly before the playoffs and hired Torts. I lean more towards shrewd planing myself. That’s just far too many ‘lucky’ events to be a coincidence.

And of course good players want to play for good organizations. Florida, Chicago, Tampa and other top teams all benefited from that in the past.

Theodore was another one of those expansion trades, and it made perfect sense for Vegas to acquire the young puck moving defenseman given they didn't have really anyone else who fit that description, and the team wasn't expected to contend right away. Anaheim on the other hand wanted to hold on to their top 4 D as they were still in the Getzlaf era. Ducks made the wrong move, as they protected the inferior dmen Manson and Vatanen, but you can understand why they did that. Obviously in hindsight they made the wrong move. But yeah. When the options are "do you want to give us your 2nd pairing dman or a good prospect?" there's not a lot that can go wrong. It wasn't up to Vegas to decide which route Anaheim picked.

And as far as Marner, once again it's just what made sense and one of those opportunities that fell on their lap. They needed another top winger. You have Mitch Marner wanting to sign for your team? Just put pen to paper and that's it. You can add a dozen or more teams to the list of who would've signed that same deal, but they didn't have the luxury of getting picked by him.

Hart was a no risk move from asset standpoint. Others didn't want the media backlash, Vegas didn't care. Let's face it, in some other places you just can't sign a player with his history.

And sure, firing Cassidy that late was a gutsy move that worked. But you could also make a case that they should've done it earlier. Two five game losing streaks, struggling to beat playoff teams for months, trailing games at a rate no other playoff team has ever trailed. It's only a "ballsy move" because they let it get to that far.

So yeah, there's always 2 sides to the coin. Like I said Vegas deserves credit for the good things they've done as you still have to make them, I just think there hasn't been any wizardry involved.