Proposal: Vancouver-New Jersey

[Breakers]

Nemec sucks so bad

 

[jackjohnson]

Nico Hischier - 26 years old
Jesper Bratt - 26 years old
Jack Hughes - 23 years old
Luke Hughes - 21 years old

NJ's core will still be in their prime in 2 years when Quinn is UFA. This isn't a Cup or bust situation, they can afford to be patient.

Vancouver has no leverage to be dictating terms. Quinn *will* be leaving Vancouver, the sooner you accept that the sooner you can begin to build towards the future. Either take a disappointing return or get no return at all, quite frankly NJ doesn't care either way.

Ok we get it Nostradamus. Now tell me what are the numbers for next weeks lottery??

 

[jackjohnson]

No to this and all these dogshit offers in this thread.

But some posters have made up their mind here and we will get nothing for Hughes now
I heard they control the GMs and also talk with NHL players and can read their minds and also the future.

 

[jackjohnson]

While true we need F a lot more if the deal is Nemec+Mercer+1st then I still just do it and go about fixing the forwards in other ways. It’s Quinn Hughes and that’s a more than reasonable package for us. I’m not going to go overboard and also throw in like Silayev or Casey or anything but arguably the best D in the world for that deal is great for us.

I think in Hughes deal, Alvin will press NJD for Casey, Nemec and Mercer. They would just replace 1st with Casey. I think the reason would be to make sure we have at least one great dman if Nemec doesn't reach his potential in order to replace Hughes.

Another reason would be NJD can easily afford to lose both Casey and Nemec because Quinn Hughes can play 30 minutes easily.

They will have

Hughes-Hughes
Pesce-Hamilton
kovacevic-Dillon
Sigenthaler-Doumulin

So they will be forced to trade both Casey and Nemec whether they like it or not both due to lack of ice time and probably costing a lot in future. Possibility of offersheets also, and they would sign it because they are good young players that want to get paid more and play more.

But honestly it's all moot if Hughes re-signs. I will just wait and see what happens.

 

[jackjohnson]

Leagues second best defence is “only” cost controlled for 2 more years.

You think Vancouver would trade him if he was signed for 8 years with the same salary?
That would be like saying we shouldn't trade for McDavid if opportunity arises because he has cost controlled contract for "only" 2 years.

 

[jackjohnson]

Tbf I honestly don’t think the packages are all that far apart in value. Yes this one has us giving up 2 1sts and a 2nd but you also have to consider the Devils are dumping 2 years of Palat at 6 mil. That’s a boat anchor that’ll cost a 1st or 2nd to dump. So this package is more expensive but I don’t think it’s absurdly more expensive. Now what really makes this proposal a bust is Palat has a 10 team trade and he’s not going to have a rebuilding Canucks on that list.

That is why I said Canucks would press for Casey, Nemec and Mercer. They will let NJD keep their 1sts and palat which they can trade for forwards in the future to replace Mercer.

Casey, Nemec and Mercer is probably the only deal I would consider at a minimum if I was Alvin. Of course if Hughes re-signs then it's a moot point and he won't be traded.

 

[Canucks LB]

People think 14 million is too much for Quinn Hughes in this cap era, he’s probably gonna get 15,000,000+ and nobody’s gonna blink an eye.

 

[Canucks LB]

holy shit, no lol. it seems OP doesn't understand the concept of leverage.

What leverage, it’s two years away, you’re paying so you could have the second best defender in the planet for an extra two years.

And it guarantees he stays in New Jersey, don’t think he’s 100% going there, some team might come in and drop like a stupid 16 or $17 million offer like Chicago, or Vancouver has a massive bounce back here, and he stays in Vancouver.

If they trade him to New Jersey, this off-season, it pretty much guarantees Quinn is going to be a devil for the next 10 years.

So yes, it’s gonna be extremely expensive

 

[dgibb10]

What leverage, it’s two years away, you’re paying so you could have the second best defender in the planet for an extra two years.

And it guarantees he stays in New Jersey, don’t think he’s 100% going there, some team might come in and drop like a stupid 16 or $17 million offer like Chicago, or Vancouver has a massive bounce back here, and he stays in Vancouver.

If they trade him to New Jersey, this off-season, it pretty much guarantees Quinn is going to be a devil for the next 10 years.

So yes, it’s gonna be extremely expensive

NJD is likely not going to be going all out to trade for Quinn in a scenario like this and asks like we've seen here (where the trade is basically all our young cost controlled guys without protections).

A) You would Immediately have to (in advance) of trading for Quinn, start trying to figure out how to move probably multiple NTC guys at once (Dillon, Hamilton, Palat). If Van isn't taking them, you have to work out other significant trades as well. If Vancouver decides they want even more or want to keep Quinn (or the trade doesn't complete for whatever reason), now you have frustrated leaders in your locker room, frustrated kids who were put on the block and then back off any jerked around. (and even a potential resentment growing towards the other 2 hughes brothers if it feels like they're getting jerked around to appease said brothers).

B) going further. The team after. With this package of for example Casey+Nemec+Mercer+++ that you see from Van fans, and a luke 8 mill deal. That leaves NJD approximately 0 dollars (literally would be missing a 4th line and would have 0$ in cap space) and 0 assets to do any of the following:

-Sign a 4th line
-replace Mercer (he plays 18 minutes a night)
-upgrade on either of palat/haula etc

It would take our biggest weakness (forwards beyond the 4 stars) and expound it further. And in terms of moving pieces around to manage that cap? Every single player remaining on the roster except Siegenthaler would have trade protections. (well Cotter and Gritysuk don't but they're as cheap as it gets already).

Our top 2 PK loses Mercer and has one of Dougie, Luke, or Quinn being placed onto it instead of Dillon.
Our PP? Does it improve from 3rd in the league? Probably not, especially since you'd be taking Dougie and his shot off PP1 for Quinn, which leaves the PP without an elite shooting threat. Sure it adds an elite skater, but NJD already had 2 of those on the PP between bratt and jack, and there's only 1 puck (and eventually someone needs to be the shooter).

Quinn is generational but you'd be putting yourself in an absolute disaster of a position with a trade like that.


Now, Dougie as a key piece in the trade instead of Casey/Nemec (I think Nemec makes more sense for NJD to keep since Casey is the much better PPQB, something Van would need long term without Quinn and NJD would have no use for with Quinn+Luke) is something that keeps NJDs cap and roster situation intact. Do I think it appeals to Van? No, which is why I don't think a trade makes sense. (IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS)


But it gives NJD an actually coherent, logical roster with competent depth, and not forced into negotiating with other teams under the barrel of both cap hell AND trade protection just to finish a roster.

In summary, NJD's roster and cap is not set up in a position to add Quinn Hughes right now. There appears to be a fit if/when he hits UFA and if he wants to come here, but NJDs picks, trades, and signings do not suggest that Quinn is in the plans anytime before he hits UFA (Drafting Silayev, signing Kovy, Pesce, Dillon all with protections until the 27-28 year)

 

[Smitty426]

I think in Hughes deal, Alvin will press NJD for Casey, Nemec and Mercer. They would just replace 1st with Casey. I think the reason would be to make sure we have at least one great dman if Nemec doesn't reach his potential in order to replace Hughes.

Another reason would be NJD can easily afford to lose both Casey and Nemec because Quinn Hughes can play 30 minutes easily.

They will have

Hughes-Hughes
Pesce-Hamilton
kovacevic-Dillon
Sigenthaler-Doumulin

So they will be forced to trade both Casey and Nemec whether they like it or not both due to lack of ice time and probably costing a lot in future. Possibility of offersheets also, and they would sign it because they are good young players that want to get paid more and play more.

But honestly it's all moot if Hughes re-signs. I will just wait and see what happens.

You are probably right on with this thinking. Although Dumolin is probably not resigned, if so its a 1 yr deal (marathon minutes last game and all!). Dillon probably gets moved in this scernario as does Hamilton. QH/LH make it somewhat redundant and Hamilton dollars eat up some of their salaries. Nemec being a righty stings a bit but who is complaining if LH is coming, you figure it out

 

[Smitty426]

NJD is likely not going to be going all out to trade for Quinn in a scenario like this and asks like we've seen here (where the trade is basically all our young cost controlled guys without protections).

A) You would Immediately have to (in advance) of trading for Quinn, start trying to figure out how to move probably multiple NTC guys at once (Dillon, Hamilton, Palat). If Van isn't taking them, you have to work out other significant trades as well. If Vancouver decides they want even more or want to keep Quinn (or the trade doesn't complete for whatever reason), now you have frustrated leaders in your locker room, frustrated kids who were put on the block and then back off any jerked around. (and even a potential resentment growing towards the other 2 hughes brothers if it feels like they're getting jerked around to appease said brothers).

B) going further. The team after. With this package of for example Casey+Nemec+Mercer+++ that you see from Van fans, and a luke 8 mill deal. That leaves NJD approximately 0 dollars (literally would be missing a 4th line and would have 0$ in cap space) and 0 assets to do any of the following:
View attachment 1023880

-Sign a 4th line
-replace Mercer (he plays 18 minutes a night)
-upgrade on either of palat/haula etc

It would take our biggest weakness (forwards beyond the 4 stars) and expound it further. And in terms of moving pieces around to manage that cap? Every single player remaining on the roster except Siegenthaler would have trade protections. (well Cotter and Gritysuk don't but they're as cheap as it gets already).

Our top 2 PK loses Mercer and has one of Dougie, Luke, or Quinn being placed onto it instead of Dillon.
Our PP? Does it improve from 3rd in the league? Probably not, especially since you'd be taking Dougie and his shot off PP1 for Quinn, which leaves the PP without an elite shooting threat. Sure it adds an elite skater, but NJD already had 2 of those on the PP between bratt and jack, and there's only 1 puck (and eventually someone needs to be the shooter).

Quinn is generational but you'd be putting yourself in an absolute disaster of a position with a trade like that.


Now, Dougie as a key piece in the trade instead of Casey/Nemec (I think Nemec makes more sense for NJD to keep since Casey is the much better PPQB, something Van would need long term without Quinn and NJD would have no use for with Quinn+Luke) is something that keeps NJDs cap and roster situation intact. Do I think it appeals to Van? No, which is why I don't think a trade makes sense. (IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS)


But it gives NJD an actually coherent, logical roster with competent depth, and not forced into negotiating with other teams under the barrel of both cap hell AND trade protection just to finish a roster.
View attachment 1023878

In summary, NJD's roster and cap is not set up in a position to add Quinn Hughes right now. There appears to be a fit if/when he hits UFA and if he wants to come here, but NJDs picks, trades, and signings do not suggest that Quinn is in the plans anytime before he hits UFA (Drafting Silayev, signing Kovy, Pesce, Dillon all with protections until the 27-28 year)

Good work here Gibb!

 

[jackjohnson]

NJD is likely not going to be going all out to trade for Quinn in a scenario like this and asks like we've seen here (where the trade is basically all our young cost controlled guys without protections).

A) You would Immediately have to (in advance) of trading for Quinn, start trying to figure out how to move probably multiple NTC guys at once (Dillon, Hamilton, Palat). If Van isn't taking them, you have to work out other significant trades as well. If Vancouver decides they want even more or want to keep Quinn (or the trade doesn't complete for whatever reason), now you have frustrated leaders in your locker room, frustrated kids who were put on the block and then back off any jerked around. (and even a potential resentment growing towards the other 2 hughes brothers if it feels like they're getting jerked around to appease said brothers).

B) going further. The team after. With this package of for example Casey+Nemec+Mercer+++ that you see from Van fans, and a luke 8 mill deal. That leaves NJD approximately 0 dollars (literally would be missing a 4th line and would have 0$ in cap space) and 0 assets to do any of the following:
View attachment 1023880

-Sign a 4th line
-replace Mercer (he plays 18 minutes a night)
-upgrade on either of palat/haula etc

It would take our biggest weakness (forwards beyond the 4 stars) and expound it further. And in terms of moving pieces around to manage that cap? Every single player remaining on the roster except Siegenthaler would have trade protections. (well Cotter and Gritysuk don't but they're as cheap as it gets already).

Our top 2 PK loses Mercer and has one of Dougie, Luke, or Quinn being placed onto it instead of Dillon.
Our PP? Does it improve from 3rd in the league? Probably not, especially since you'd be taking Dougie and his shot off PP1 for Quinn, which leaves the PP without an elite shooting threat. Sure it adds an elite skater, but NJD already had 2 of those on the PP between bratt and jack, and there's only 1 puck (and eventually someone needs to be the shooter).

Quinn is generational but you'd be putting yourself in an absolute disaster of a position with a trade like that.


Now, Dougie as a key piece in the trade instead of Casey/Nemec (I think Nemec makes more sense for NJD to keep since Casey is the much better PPQB, something Van would need long term without Quinn and NJD would have no use for with Quinn+Luke) is something that keeps NJDs cap and roster situation intact. Do I think it appeals to Van? No, which is why I don't think a trade makes sense. (IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS)


But it gives NJD an actually coherent, logical roster with competent depth, and not forced into negotiating with other teams under the barrel of both cap hell AND trade protection just to finish a roster.
View attachment 1023878

In summary, NJD's roster and cap is not set up in a position to add Quinn Hughes right now. There appears to be a fit if/when he hits UFA and if he wants to come here, but NJDs picks, trades, and signings do not suggest that Quinn is in the plans anytime before he hits UFA (Drafting Silayev, signing Kovy, Pesce, Dillon all with protections until the 27-28 year)

I agree, I think some NJD fans think its very easy to accommodate Quinn Hughes and his huge salary. You have to move a lot of pieces if you get Hughes via trade. If you get him via FA, you still have to move lots of.pieces to fit his salary. Then think about how much you have to give to Luke Hughes and how other players will need pay raise in very near future. There is 6 spots on D, you can't have 6 elite dmen occupying those spots due to lack of cap space, lack of ice time that would.make those 6 dmen happy and organizational needs outside of the defensive group like getting a number 1 goalie or upgrading the forward group. It's impossible which is why if Quinn Hughes ever goes to NJ, you better be saying goodbye to both Nemec and Casey because the defacto #1 Dman would be Quinn Hughes and #2 would be Luke Hughes. Not sure if Nemec and Casey would even want to be behind those 2 if they think they have a potential to be a number 1 dman in another team and maximize the salary they can get in the future.

 

[dgibb10]

I agree, I think some NJD fans think its very easy to accommodate Quinn Hughes and his huge salary. You have to move a lot of pieces if you get Hughes via trade. If you get him via FA, you still have to move lots of.pieces to fit his salary. Then think about how much you have to give to Luke Hughes and how other players will need pay raise in very near future. There is 6 spots on D, you can't have 6 elite dmen occupying those spots due to lack of cap space, lack of ice time that would.make those 6 dmen happy and organizational needs outside of the defensive group like getting a number 1 goalie or upgrading the forward group. It's impossible which is why if Quinn Hughes ever goes to NJ, you better be saying goodbye to both Nemec and Casey because the defacto #1 Dman would be Quinn Hughes and #2 would be Luke Hughes. Not sure if Nemec and Casey would even want to be behind those 2 if they think they have a potential to be a number 1 dman in another team and maximize the salary they can get in the future.

No, you do not ship out both of your 950k dman to bring in Quinn for 8 mill. This is literally the opposite of what you do. It is difficult to accomadate him now because NJD has a fully priced out roster ALREADY built, lots of NTCs, and you only want the guys who are dirt cheap contracts.

In UFA however, it is very much fine to fit him if you just move off of the last year of hamilton (which would probably be done a year before this as you sign Nemec to a deal similar to Guhle and Vlasic

So, if you're Van, you have 2 years to convince quinn to stay, and I don't think NJD will be actively hunting. But if you let Quinn hit UFA, don't think NJD won't be able to scoop him up

 

[Fatass]

I’m wondering if the Hughes boys all are injury prone? Jack shoulders. Quinn playing seemingly hurt a lot, now Luke out again. Maybe Van (or Jersey) should get a boatload and move their Hughes?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I’m wondering if the Hughes boys all are injury prone? Jack shoulders. Quinn playing seemingly hurt a lot, now Luke out again. Maybe Van (or Jersey) should get a boatload and move their Hughes?

Their insurance provider has dropped that family. Brittle shoulders and noggins - all of em. Genetically flawed.

 

[Fatass]

Their insurance provider has dropped that family. Brittle shoulders and noggins - all of em. Genetically flawed.

Great players for sure (especially Quinn and Jack) but they aren’t exactly stout. These are small framed guys who play really hard and compete. They don’t cheat. They take a lot of contact. I’m f I’m Van I’m definitely considering moving Quinn if the Jersey offer is Nemec ++++.

 

[GCK]

Hischer and Casey probably gets it done at this point

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hischer and Casey probably gets it done at this point

Not happening. Devils aren't trading Hischier

 

[GCK]

Not happening. Devils aren't trading Hischier

That’s very shortsighted. Hughes is a better player.

 

[Smitty426]

That’s very shortsighted. Hughes is a better player.

and we depend more on 13

 

[Vergil]

Seems like NJ is only giving up what is palatable. Hischier + is the only base I would consider if I’m the Canucks.

If Nico is the get you think they're going to receive... oh boy. You're in for a bad day eventually. Though I doubt NJ trades for Quinn this offseason. I think Vancouver FO tries their best to convince him to sign, then they kick tires and realize they don't have the assets to acquire Jack+Luke, and then next offseason, they give up Quinn.

I'm gonna be completely honest. Let's just play devils advocate and say Vancouver won the draft lottery next year AND the year after, and got Gavin McKenna and Landon DuPont and decided to try moving both for Jack+Luke. Even though that would be a god tier offer with arguably two generational talents, I highly doubt NJ will bite. Not because they aren't worth it, but because they're collecting Hughes bros like Thanos stones.

So why am I bringing up McKenna and DuPont? Because if NJ wouldn't take those two for the Hughes, Vancouver could move heaven and earth and still not be able to pry them out of NJ. And there's no chance you're getting Nico for a player that will run to NJ for free in two years time. Them's the breaks.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That’s very shortsighted. Hughes is a better player.

I don't dispute that, but we're not gonna trade our captain for a player who very well may end up here as a free agent in 2 years.

 

[GCK]

I don't dispute that, but we're not gonna trade our captain for a player who very well may end up here as a free agent in 2 years.

That’s 2 years of missing out on a perennial Norris candidate.

 

[Nocashstyle]

That’s very shortsighted. Hughes is a better player.

You do realize there is a lot more context and consideration put into trade value than just a black and white lense of “player A is better than player B,” right?

 

[GCK]

You do realize there is a lot more context and consideration put into trade value than just a black and white lense of “player A is better than player B,” right?

Of course. A Hughes / Pesce pairing would really help NJ. Hischer is going to be in high demand as a UFA, might be wise to make the trade now.