Proposal: Vancouver-New Jersey

[SJinNewJersey]

 

[BleedBlue14]

Leagues second best defence is “only” cost controlled for 2 more years.

Erik Karlsson had 1 year remaining and returned, Norris, #3 OA pick, 2 2nds with conditions to become 1sts and a few roster players and Balcers. That’s a very easy comparison.

Nemec was a #2 OA pick, but he hasn’t exactly progressed like you’d hope for a #2 OA. Mercer has been tracking a bit backwards or stagnating since a really strong campaign. Not sure those are comparable to a #3 OA and Norris at all. Nemec is probably similar to Norris, not sure you could say the same about Mercer and the #3 OA which was Stutzle.

 

[BleedBlue14]

No, you’re getting 2 years out of him. The premise of the trade is that he wants to play with his brothers, if he doesn’t Vancouver wouldn’t entertain a trade at all. In that case you’d be getting the last 7-8 years regardless, you’re just trading for 2.

There’s a very easy way to fix the wanting to play with his brothers thing. It’s money and a contending team. Any contending team would pay out of their nose to add Hughes.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I don’t want to speculate on what realistic price is, but I also don’t think this is a situation where you can look at Quinn’s value in a vacuum without considering the outside context. Vancouver does not have all that much leverage, especially given Rutherford’s recent public comments. I do not believe Quinn has a NTC/NMC, so Vancouver would be free to field offers from everywhere, but ultimately, if it’s common knowledge he wants to play with his brothers, his value is still going to take a hit if another acquiring team knows they only get him until the end of his contract and then he’s 100% gone.

He’s obviously still going to return a valuable package, but probably less than he would if there wasn’t the brother context.

I’m sure he would like to play with his brothers. But I’m also sure he would heavily consider playing on a very good team for more money as opposed to what NJD can offer cap wise. I’m not sure it’s as much leverage as speculation would lead you to believe.

 

[Edmonton East]

Canucks will be in for a rebuild if Hughes decides to leave anyway, I'd rather wait it out and see if we can at least convince him to sign a shorter term deal of 3-5 years before he finishes his career in NJ. The odds of him signing might be slim, but he's a top 5 player in the league imo so I'd still take those odds.

Conversely, if the Quinn wanting to play with his bros stuff is serious, you Canucks' fans should want to move him this summer. Accumulate futures. Tank hard for a couple years. Maybe be a legit contender in several years (shorten rebuild). What exactly is the Canucks current path to seriously contending? Because that's probably what's needed to keep Quinn. Proposed this the other day. Makes the most sense for both sides. Yea, I know, no fanbase wants to accept a rebuild.

To Van: Nemec, Silayev, Hamilton or Palat (doubt they'd go to Van, but whatever this is fantasy land anyway), 2026 1st, ....prob another 1st

To NJ: Quinn and Demko (50% ret)

Vancouver formally enters the tank for McKenna sweepstakes. There's your Center.

 

[Nucky]

Conversely, if the Quinn wanting to play with his bros stuff is serious, you Canucks' fans should want to move him this summer. Accumulate futures. Tank hard for a couple years. Maybe be a legit contender in several years (shorten rebuild). What exactly is the Canucks current path to seriously contending? Because that's probably what's needed to keep Quinn. Proposed this the other day. Makes the most sense for both sides. Yea, I know, no fanbase wants to accept a rebuild.

To Van: Nemec, Silayev, Hamilton or Palat (doubt they'd go to Van, but whatever this is fantasy land anyway), 2026 1st, ....prob another 1st

To NJ: Quinn and Demko (50% ret)

Vancouver formally enters the tank for McKenna sweepstakes. There's your Center.

The pain is coming either way, sure a jumpstart would be nice but when you have a 25 year old top 5 player in the league signed for 2 more years and have even a 15-20% chance at retaining him, you keep him. Most rebuilds will never yield a player as good as him.

I know that goes against the HF mentality, but you can rebuild anytime.

 

[Schemp]

View attachment 1020889

But can't get no... Satisfaction, No,No,No

 

[Edmonton East]

The pain is coming either way, sure a jumpstart would be nice but when you have a 25 year old top 5 player in the league signed for 2 more years and have even a 15-20% chance at retaining him, you keep him. Most rebuilds will never yield a player as good as him.

I know that goes against the HF mentality, but you can rebuild anytime.

Idk. I actually think the typical HF fanbase/mentality keeps holding out hope they can keep a player they love when all signs point to that being unlikely. Then they complain even more once the player does indeed leave for little or no value...setting the franchise back a decade+.

If the Nucks had a strong team currently and/or an incredible prospect pool, your view would make logical sense. But they don't. I get being a fan and wanting to keep a top player anyway though.

 

[Three On Zero]

Erik Karlsson had 1 year remaining and returned, Norris, #3 OA pick, 2 2nds with conditions to become 1sts and a few roster players and Balcers. That’s a very easy comparison.

Nemec was a #2 OA pick, but he hasn’t exactly progressed like you’d hope for a #2 OA. Mercer has been tracking a bit backwards or stagnating since a really strong campaign. Not sure those are comparable to a #3 OA and Norris at all. Nemec is probably similar to Norris, not sure you could say the same about Mercer and the #3 OA which was Stutzle.

Palat is also a huge cap dump, that needs to be factored in.

 

[Hisch13r]

Erik Karlsson had 1 year remaining and returned, Norris, #3 OA pick, 2 2nds with conditions to become 1sts and a few roster players and Balcers. That’s a very easy comparison.

Nemec was a #2 OA pick, but he hasn’t exactly progressed like you’d hope for a #2 OA. Mercer has been tracking a bit backwards or stagnating since a really strong campaign. Not sure those are comparable to a #3 OA and Norris at all. Nemec is probably similar to Norris, not sure you could say the same about Mercer and the #3 OA which was Stutzle.

I mean Karlsson wasn't traded for the 3rd overall pick though. Karlsson was traded for a future first that became the 3rd overall pick. If you're trading for Karlsson the expectation is you'll be contenders and at worst you're giving up a mid 1st.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I’m sure he would like to play with his brothers. But I’m also sure he would heavily consider playing on a very good team for more money as opposed to what NJD can offer cap wise. I’m not sure it’s as much leverage as speculation would lead you to believe.

Maybe, maybe not. All the speculation is based on Rutherfords comments directly stating he wants to play with his brothers. That doesn’t seem to be a big secret, and there’s direct smoke about this, not just fan speculation. He’ll have made about 50 million before he signs his next contract. The Devils should still be a good team by that point. Maybe making an extra million or so a year will be more important than playing with his brothers, or it might not be.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Palat is also a huge cap dump, that needs to be factored in.

Bigger issue with Palat is that he has a NMC and a 10 team trade list. I'd venture to guess he wouldn't approve Vancouver knowing the circumstances.

 

[Hisch13r]

Palat is also a huge cap dump, that needs to be factored in.

Nobody should be factoring in Palat. The guy has a 10 team trade list. He's not going to the Canucks on that list.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Maybe, maybe not. All the speculation is based on Rutherfords comments directly stating he wants to play with his brothers. That doesn’t seem to be a big secret, and there’s direct smoke about this, not just fan speculation. He’ll had made about 50 million before he signs his next contract. The Devils should still be a good team by that point. Maybe making an extra million or so a year will be more important than playing with his brothers, or it might not be.

Are the Devils capable of offering Hughes 13-14m a year? Because I'd guess Vancouver would be comfortable offering him in that range to not have to completely tank their team.

I don't see how New Jersey's cap structure could handle that prior to Quinn's next contract being needed with all of the money they have paid out through NMCs and trade protection. There's alot of teams who want to get out of contracts but remain competitive. It's not necessarily easy.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I mean Karlsson wasn't traded for the 3rd overall pick though. Karlsson was traded for a future first that became the 3rd overall pick. If you're trading for Karlsson the expectation is you'll be contenders and at worst you're giving up a mid 1st.

Probably a pretty unfair comparison then, I didn't fully remember the details of that. Regardless, what the OP had suggested is probably close to fair, if not bordering a bit light. Was just commenting on the thought that Nemec + Mercer + a 1st was closer value than OP.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Are the Devils capable of offering Hughes 13-14m a year? Because I'd guess Vancouver would be comfortable offering him in that range to not have to completely tank their team.

I don't see how New Jersey's cap structure could handle that prior to Quinn's next contract being needed with all of the money they have paid out through NMCs and trade protection. There's alot of teams who want to get out of contracts but remain competitive. It's not necessarily easy.

Again, you’re basing this solely on $$$ which does not seem to be the driving factor if Quinn leaves Vancouver.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Are the Devils capable of offering Hughes 13-14m a year? Because I'd guess Vancouver would be comfortable offering him in that range to not have to completely tank their team.

I don't see how New Jersey's cap structure could handle that prior to Quinn's next contract being needed with all of the money they have paid out through NMCs and trade protection. There's alot of teams who want to get out of contracts but remain competitive. It's not necessarily easy.

"It may not boil down to money for him. He's said before, he wants to play with his brothers," says Rutherford about Quinn Hughes.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

If Tocchet walks there's a very high likelihood Hughes does too. If Tocchet stays & the team moves in the right direction next season I don't think it's a given Hughes will leave.

If Tocchet does walk, the Canucks have to think about it. And given his cap hit alot of teams could be in on it, not just NJ..

I think the Canucks would be a good spot to get a great return.

 

[Three On Zero]

Nobody should be factoring in Palat. The guy has a 10 team trade list. He's not going to the Canucks on that list.

Purely based on the above offer. He likely has all
of Canada on that list, but you need to think about these things when making proposals

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Are the Devils capable of offering Hughes 13-14m a year? Because I'd guess Vancouver would be comfortable offering him in that range to not have to completely tank their team.

I don't see how New Jersey's cap structure could handle that prior to Quinn's next contract being needed with all of the money they have paid out through NMCs and trade protection. There's alot of teams who want to get out of contracts but remain competitive. It's not necessarily easy.

Again, you’re basing this solely on $$$ which does not seem to be the driving factor if Quinn leaves Vancouver.

"It may not boil down to money for him. He's said before, he wants to play with his brothers," says Rutherford about Quinn Hughes.

Also the number might also be between 14-15 not 13-14.

 

[Hisch13r]

Probably a pretty unfair comparison then, I didn't fully remember the details of that. Regardless, what the OP had suggested is probably close to fair, if not bordering a bit light. Was just commenting on the thought that Nemec + Mercer + a 1st was closer value than OP.

It's not light in comparison though. Even the Nemec+Mercer+1st deal is MORE than the Karlsson package was at the time. At the time of the trade Norris was a 19th overall pick the year prior coming off a 23 pt in 37 game year as a freshman at Michigan. Mercer is more valuable than that. At the time of the trade the 1st round pick was from a team you figured would've been at least a playoff team. Nemec is more valuable than that. From there it's 2 2nds and Demelo vs a 1st. Nemec+Mercer+1st is better than the Karlsson package.

Also like I said before the proposal OP made and the Nemec+Mercer+1st one really isn't all that different in value. The OP one is more valuable but only really by like a 2nd. The difference between the 2 packages is Palat, a 1st, and a 2nd. Palat's a negative asset that probably should cost a 1st for a team to take on the full freight of it. Marleau was dumped for a 1st and he only had 1 year left vs Palat's 2. The only real difference between the packages in value is a 2nd round pick.

 

[Hisch13r]

Are the Devils capable of offering Hughes 13-14m a year? Because I'd guess Vancouver would be comfortable offering him in that range to not have to completely tank their team.

I don't see how New Jersey's cap structure could handle that prior to Quinn's next contract being needed with all of the money they have paid out through NMCs and trade protection. There's alot of teams who want to get out of contracts but remain competitive. It's not necessarily easy.

Yes the Devils will be able to afford that.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I have no idea why Devil fans are balking at the OP, if Palat signs off on it and there are conditions on the 1sts I'd do that in a second.

Trading away picks comes back to bite you something Fitz needs to come to terms with..You have Luke at LHD Siegs Dillon signed for two more years ....Silayev Orlov Vilen Edwards Karpovich in the system at LHD....Would Quinn help of course - he would help any team but at what cost and the Devils have more pressing needs....

 

[BleedBlue14]

Again, you’re basing this solely on $$$ which does not seem to be the driving factor if Quinn leaves Vancouver.

Answer this for me. Would Quinn Hughes leave potentially 24-30m on the table over a long term contract to play with his brothers? Especially if the team offering him was a very competitive team?

 

[Hisch13r]

Trading away picks comes back to bite you something Fitz needs to come to terms with..You have Luke at LHD Siegs Dillon signed for two more years ....Silayev Orlov Vilen Edwards Karpovich in the system at LHD....Would Quinn help of course - he would help any team but at what cost and the Devils have more pressing needs....

We'll probably have to move a pick if we're going to be able to dump Palat anyway. Either that or buyout. Our avenue to addressing our needs with him around is very slim. Even with a buyout it doesn't help all that much. You only save ~2.5 mil for next year and that money likely goes to just replacing him. LTIRetirement please save us. I can't believe that stupid ass f***ing contract had so many fans when it was signed. Dillon deal similar boat.