Vancouver Canucks Ticket Market Fading?

[BrockH]

The prices are insane for watching a hockey game . They should be $100 per seat at lower level center ice.

Work backward from there until you hit the upper bowl at $20 bucks each.

Get some fans in there who give a !$%!$# . Make it affordable to all canuck fans.

Move to a communist country.

Make it up in advertising , center ice, television.

And also learn how business works. You honestly think they are deliberately leaving money on the table right now?

 

[Karl Hungus]

I get emails when the Canucks release tickets at the last minute but I can't impulse buy two tickets for $250 to $300. I'd rather save the money and watch the game on my 55'' TV from my couch unless a friend is in town that doesn't get to go to many games, then it's special for them.

For me Rogers arena just doesn't seem like a very fun place to go. The food is super unhealthy, expensive and generally low quality in a city that has very high standards for food. Going to the bathroom is always an ordeal. Beer is overpriced, undersized and not that great. I don't need to go into the music, atmosphere and overactive security.

I hate to say it, but you also never really know what kind of effort you will get. The Canucks are good enough to only play hard for 20 minutes and still have a close game most night but that's not especially inspiring to watch. I think a big part of it is the number of games the players have to play and also the brutal travel schedule. It's still a let down when you pay huge money for your tickets though.

 

[stickside]

I get emails when the Canucks release tickets at the last minute but I can't impulse buy two tickets for $250 to $300. I'd rather save the money and watch the game on my 55'' TV from my couch unless a friend is in town that doesn't get to go to many games, then it's special for them.

For me Rogers arena just doesn't seem like a very fun place to go. The food is super unhealthy, expensive and generally low quality in a city that has very high standards for food. Going to the bathroom is always an ordeal. Beer is overpriced, undersized and not that great. I don't need to go into the music, atmosphere and overactive security.

I hate to say it, but you also never really know what kind of effort you will get. The Canucks are good enough to only play hard for 20 minutes and still have a close game most night but that's not especially inspiring to watch. I think a big part of it is the number of games the players have to play and also the brutal travel schedule. It's still a let down when you pay huge money for your tickets though.

good post.

for me, the last time going to a game was fun was when i was a kid. the anticipation of knowing i was going to a game in a couple of nights was intense...the drive to the pacific coliseum, parking the car, walking down renfrew and finally getting in the doors and getting a whiff of hockey. then going to the glass to watch warm-ups to hear the pucks hit the glass and see these huuuuge players up close. now that was fun.

as i get older, almost all of that has been lost. i still go to the glass cuz i like to hold on to that bit of childhood, but in all honesty, most of the games are pretty boring unless it's playoff hockey or a superstar is in town.

sorry if this is a depressing post lol.

 

[hlrsr]

HDTV is nice but it's still better being there . I have an 11 game Ice pak at 70 bucks per game.,being there live for Henriks record was well worth the 70 bucks and 6 bucks for skytrain there snd back.

Yeah... I agree with you, but I see what people are saying about being priced out.

I have 6 games this year and the face value on my tickets is $121.50. I paid $90ish and I had quite some trouble trying to move them the other day when I couldn't go. I almost felt bad telling people the pair was $180.. I didn't even bother trying to sell them at face value.

A few years ago (after the 04/05 lockout) I recall going to games and having people be really surprised that I was able to get tickets, saying that I was so lucky to be able to go. That doesn't really happen anymore...

 

[cooker24]

I've discussed this with friends and colleagues over the last few years. What the Canucks organization did is they looked at the secondary market and what people were willing to pay on the secondary market, which was much more than the face value they were charging. They obviously decided that they wanted some of that action...

Now, they slowly (or not so slowly) raised ticket prices over the last few years, cutting out the scalpers/middle man. In doing that, they've absolutely killed the secondary market except (somewhat) in the playoffs where there is still money to be made on the secondary market.

So, what do I do now? I buy my tickets off Craigslist for below face value. I got two tickets to Tuesday night's game for $100. Row 3 in Section 303. Face value of those seats is $163.00 for the pair, but obviously not what the season ticket holder pays for them, but despite that it's still a loss for him.

It's good for us non-season ticket holders.

 

[Wizeman*]

Yeah... I agree with you, but I see what people are saying about being priced out.

I have 6 games this year and the face value on my tickets is $121.50. I paid $90ish and I had quite some trouble trying to move them the other day when I couldn't go. I almost felt bad telling people the pair was $180.. I didn't even bother trying to sell them at face value.

A few years ago (after the 04/05 lockout) I recall going to games and having people be really surprised that I was able to get tickets, saying that I was so lucky to be able to go. That doesn't really happen anymore...

Its a lot of money to pay for seats that are not even center ice . Who can afford to throw out $180 bucks plus parking plus concessions for seats that are not as close as the television makes it seem from the comfort of your own home?

We really are pricing the general public out of the arena. I can remember when it was affordable for just about anyone to go to a game.

 

[Wizeman*]

Move to a communist country.



And also learn how business works. You honestly think they are deliberately leaving money on the table right now?

1) Canada is far more socialist than the United States is. Furthermor, you dont need to become Cuba style 'commie' to make ticket prices affordable.

2) I run my own business, and I bet I make far more than you will probably make in your life. Who knows, maybe you are some kind of millionaire but I doubt it. Ticket prices are nowhere near as lucrative as television deals, merchandising and live streaming which affords advertising opportunities.

That is the future of pro sports anyways. Not jacking up ticket prices to where nobody but prepaid corporate gurus sit in when they decide to show up.

 

[HAMMY5]

When I was in Vegas last year I got to talking with a Carolina fan who is a season ticket holder His season tickets upper bowl only cost him $400 10 bucks a game. Can't even go to a junior game down here for that!

Just goes to show what a real true hockey market like Vancouver can do to the ticket prices.

 

[Bieksallent]

1) Canada is far more socialist than the United States is. Furthermor, you dont need to become Cuba style 'commie' to make ticket prices affordable.

2) I run my own business, and I bet I make far more than you will probably make in your life. Who knows, maybe you are some kind of millionaire but I doubt it. Ticket prices are nowhere near as lucrative as television deals, merchandising and live streaming which affords advertising opportunities.

That is the future of pro sports anyways. Not jacking up ticket prices to where nobody but prepaid corporate gurus sit in when they decide to show up.

The Bundesliga in Germany is a great example I wish sports from across the globe would follow. Fan ownership and extremely reasonably priced tickets. It is possible.

 

[Tiranis]

The Bundesliga in Germany is a great example I wish sports from across the globe would follow. Fan ownership and extremely reasonably priced tickets. It is possible.

I don't like the comparison. First of all you're dealing with huge volume differences. Second, TV rights for soccer are worth massively more than TV rights for hockey. Third, kit sales are a huge thing in soccer but are merely a nice bonus in hockey.

(And big part of the reason why Bundesliga is profitable is due to their investment in local academies which have resulted in a great generation of young, German soccer players who they can now pay less than they would have to for imports of that quality. As a result it has become very competitive while staying out of the European-football arms race that's affecting the EPL and La Liga.)

 

[opendoor]

1) Canada is far more socialist than the United States is. Furthermor, you dont need to become Cuba style 'commie' to make ticket prices affordable.

2) I run my own business, and I bet I make far more than you will probably make in your life. Who knows, maybe you are some kind of millionaire but I doubt it. Ticket prices are nowhere near as lucrative as television deals, merchandising and live streaming which affords advertising opportunities.

That is the future of pro sports anyways. Not jacking up ticket prices to where nobody but prepaid corporate gurus sit in when they decide to show up.

Gate revenues are about 50% of HRR, so that statement is completely incorrect with regards to the NHL. Maybe for a sport like the NFL that's true, but definitely not the NHL which relies on ticket sales as its primary source of revenue.

 

[Bieksallent]

I don't like the comparison. First of all you're dealing with huge volume differences. Second, TV rights for soccer are worth massively more than TV rights for hockey. Third, kit sales are a huge thing in soccer but are merely a nice bonus in hockey.

Perhaps players shouldn't be making as much as they should. Or, better yet, the owners shouldn't pay them as much as they are and in turn continually raise ticket prices.

 

[Grifter3511]

Also, maybe this is just me, but with home theatre systems and big screen tvs these days, I find you get a much better viewing experience at home, while saving saving yourself a ton of time and money.

Call me boring and a loser, but this is a huge part of it for me.

Throw in the fact that you just have no idea what you're going to get from the Canucks these days, and the style of hockey we are moving towards and seeing from a lot of teams does not let itself to excitement, and it just makes sense to watch it at home or at the bar.

 

[VeteranNetPresence]

Perhaps players shouldn't be making as much as they should. Or, better yet, the owners shouldn't pay them as much as they are and in turn continually raise ticket prices.

ticket prices are where they are at due to demand, not players salaries. and escrow is going to ensure the players get paid regardless if owner's cut back on spending

 

[lush]

I didn't read through the entire thread so some of these may have been mentioned already but here is my opinion as to why the market is fading:

1) It's only been about ~2 seasons now since the face value printed on tickets has changed from what season ticket holders pay to the value people pay for single games. With a high % of STH out there that means the face value on tickets for 80% or more of the tickets skyrocketed fairly recently. Tickets sold for less than this amount can still retrieve a decent margin.

2) We've been spoiled with incredible regular season success in seasons leading up to this one, we're not seeing that anymore

3) Entertainment value is down because no eastern teams are in town

4) the schedule is more aggressive, supply of games is up for the shorter season, less likely that fans will go buy tickets simply because they haven't been to a game in x days/weeks/months

4) in spite of the above prices continue to go up

I'm a STH and my interest in seeing games live has gone down significantly, though I maintain that is because I have a young child now so it's way easier for me to watch from home. That being said I think it's a lot more than just that and certainly this isn't the case for most other fans

 

[BrockH]

1) Canada is far more socialist than the United States is.

What's your point? I never said it wasn't.

Furthermor, you dont need to become Cuba style 'commie' to make ticket prices affordable.

No, but the Vancouver Canucks are a business (and neither a charity nor non-profit). You are proposing that instead of the goals of the business being profits, they should price themselves to provide a public service of sorts. I know reduced prices != communism (after all you're still charging something), but you're not stupid - I'm sure you can see the relevance of my communist comment when you are proposing a distribution of goods based on needs and utilitarian criteria.

2) I run my own business, and I bet I make far more than you will probably make in your life. Who knows, maybe you are some kind of millionaire but I doubt it. Ticket prices are nowhere near as lucrative as television deals, merchandising and live streaming which affords advertising opportunities.

That is the future of pro sports anyways. Not jacking up ticket prices to where nobody but prepaid corporate gurus sit in when they decide to show up.

Fine, sorry for the personal attack (though your speculative response is pretty comical). Regardless of yours or my income, it doesn't make your statement/solution any less ludicrous. You said they should make up the money in advertising. The Vancouver Canucks are a business. Do you honestly think that they are making a concious decision to make less money on advertising than they could? I don't buy it. While sports are unique in that an owner may choose to make less for the possibility of glory (i.e. spend to win instead of spend to earn), leaving advertising money on the table in no way increases the chances of a team winning the cup (quite to the contrary actually, since it would reduce cash flow and available funds). Your solution seems to assume the Canucks have a target revenue/profitability number, and their only goal is to meet it (i.e. they will not attempt to exceed it). That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[YogiCanucks]

I've discussed this with friends and colleagues over the last few years. What the Canucks organization did is they looked at the secondary market and what people were willing to pay on the secondary market, which was much more than the face value they were charging. They obviously decided that they wanted some of that action...

Now, they slowly (or not so slowly) raised ticket prices over the last few years, cutting out the scalpers/middle man. In doing that, they've absolutely killed the secondary market except (somewhat) in the playoffs where there is still money to be made on the secondary market.

So, what do I do now? I buy my tickets off Craigslist for below face value. I got two tickets to Tuesday night's game for $100. Row 3 in Section 303. Face value of those seats is $163.00 for the pair, but obviously not what the season ticket holder pays for them, but despite that it's still a loss for him.

It's good for us non-season ticket holders.

This is easily the best explanation I've seen (and likely an accurate one IMO). It's one thing to raise ticket prices because you can and raising ticket prices because people are buying them at that price anyways.


Also, the Canucks are under no obligation to keep ticket prices affordable to the "General Public". People always they are pricing the "true fans" out of the market but there isn't anything to say that just because you're rich you can't be a hardcore fan (perhaps there is a negative correlation between rowdiness and richness).

 

[BrockH]

This is easily the best explanation I've seen (and likely an accurate one IMO). It's one thing to raise ticket prices because you can and raising ticket prices because people are buying them at that price anyways.


Also, the Canucks are under no obligation to keep ticket prices affordable to the "General Public". People always they are pricing the "true fans" out of the market but there isn't anything to say that just because you're rich you can't be a hardcore fan (perhaps there is a negative correlation between rowdiness and richness).

I agree it's an accurate explanation. But with regards to the second half, you're right, there might not be a correlation (probably isn't) between 'true fan-ness' and wealth. But pricing is still relevant in terms of the percentage of 'true fans' at the game, because there are other ways to get an advantage in buying tickets than just spending dollars.

Suppose X is a low price and Y is a high price though.

Assume no relationship between 'true' fans and wealth. Say like, 20% of people are 'true' fans.

If at price X 200,000 people are willing to pay to attend the game, then only 10% (20,000) of them actually get to go. You can bet though that of that the 40,000 true fans willing to pay that price will find some other way to get an advantage (e.g. waiting in a line longer, hitting the refresh button like a maniac the second tickets go on sale, etc.). Thus, you will end up with more than 20% 'true' fans at the game.

Now if you raise the prices to Y, only 20,000 people can afford to go. So suddenly those other ways to gain an advantage become irrelevant. Consequently, you only have 20% 'true' fans at the game.


I would note though, that the same theory should hold true regardless of face value on tickets, since the secondary market still exists. Of course, that would only be if everyone was rational, and they aren't. Despite the validity to it, people don't see a penny earned the same way they see a penny saved. Some people will refuse to pay $200 for a $30 ticket, but then when given that exact same ticket for $30, they will choose to use it instead of selling it for $200.

 

[Kryten]

Move to a communist country.

Ahem, a week ago the Canucks fans paid for the Coyotes salaries who beat their Canucks

And also learn how business works. You honestly think they are deliberately leaving money on the table right now?

"Business" has been the worst thing to happen to pro sports let alone the planet.

 

[LiquidSnake]

if the team was exciting to watch, more people would want to go. And the environment in the arena would be better.

They dont play up tempo anymore.

 

[Tifosi]

I'm having a hard time selling 2 section 119 row 4 seats for $280, normal price is $375.

 

[Tleve]

I think tickets are easier to come by this year because the schedule is so condensed and there can be three or four home games in one week - I don't care how die hard a fan you are - that is a bit of overkill. Just too many games in too short a time span.

 

[Crows*]

New team store opening in kerrisdale.

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=87462

 

[VanCanucks53]

I'm having a hard time selling 2 section 119 row 4 seats for $280, normal price is $375.

against what team?

 

[The Optimist]

My girlfriend recently won tickets to a game against a playoff rival and I urged her to sell them (which she did). After the lockout I refuse to give the NHL any support (even if that includes turning down free tickets). Maybe there are more fans like me and this is impacting sales, although I suspect I'm the exception and not the rule.