Confirmed with Link: [VAN/Pit] Vincent Desharnais, Danton Heinen, Melvin Fernstrom, & 1st (NYR) for Marcus Pettersson (LD) & Drew O'Connor (W)

[Big McLargehuge]

Oh goodie, Graves and Vinnie on the 5/6 D.

Gotta say...better than Jack Johnson.

That pairing is f***ing rough, though. I'd say at least we're not trying to win, but that seems to matter little when you're playing Nashville. Woof.

Yeah, not sure why this was timed the way it was. For all we know the Penguins wanted a higher pick and the Rangers 1st satisfied that while the Canucks’ wouldn’t have.

Pettersson did miss some time with an injury, which pretty much ended the odds of him being dealt before the holiday break.

I don't think a 1st became available until last night, and I think that's what Dubas was holding out for.

 

[bossram]

Team very rarely trade their first in the fall for a UFA when they are not playing well.



Yes, that is technically true. But they essentially traded Miller for Pettersson, O’Connor, Chytil anf O’Connor. This was effectively a three way deal, and the Canucks never gave up any futures other than Fenstrom.



Again, you are focusing on the trade of the NYR first round pick when it was a de facto three way trade and the Canucks never really had the first. To put it another way, I don’t think the Canucks do the NYR trade without the Pittsburg one.

Again, if teams don't trade 1sts when they're not playing well, why is JR trading a 1st when, by his own admission, they are not playing well?

You can say it was a "de facto" three-way trade and the Canucks never had the NYR 1st, but that is factually not what happened. The Canucks found themselves with a very intriguing (and potentially incredibly valuable asset) and did not value it correctly, IMO.

 

[Hodgy]

Again, if teams don't trade 1sts when they're not playing well, why is JR trading a 1st when, by his own admission, they are not playing well?

You can say it was a "de facto" three-way trade and the Canucks never had the NYR 1st, but that is factually not what happened. The Canucks found themselves with a very intriguing (and potentially incredibly valuable asset) and did not value it correctly, IMO.

I think my point stands though. Your argument relies on the technically true fact that the Canucks received NY’s first round pick. But I think we both agree that it was effectively a three way trade and that we never actually dumped futures for a player.

But, like, I agree with your view point. I’d rather a more longer term outlook.

 

[TruGr1t]

Again, if teams don't trade 1sts when they're not playing well, why is JR trading a 1st when, by his own admission, they are not playing well?

You can say it was a "de facto" three-way trade and the Canucks never had the NYR 1st, but that is factually not what happened. The Canucks found themselves with a very intriguing (and potentially incredibly valuable asset) and did not value it correctly, IMO.

Don’t have an issue trading the first for the right return, I’m not sure this is it. Pettersson isn’t a player I’d probably be throwing around 1sts for (plus basically a 3rd with Melvin) but I guess there is an element of cap dump there.

Would have preferred to package the pick for a younger top-four guy.

 

[bossram]

Don’t have an issue trading the first for the right return, I’m not sure this is it. Pettersson isn’t a player I’d probably be throwing around 1sts for (plus basically a 3rd with Melvin) but I guess there is an element of cap dump there.

Would have preferred to package the pick for a younger top-four guy.

I think any defenseman of this calibre would command a 1st in this trade market. I'm reasonably confident they'll re-sign Pettersson, but a younger, cost-controlled defenseman should cost considerably more.

Part of my issue is they should have held on to NYR's pick, and traded their own.

 

[Slapshot_11]

Why would he sign? He can just wait it out and see what gms will throw with the news of the increase salary cap

Embarrassing trade

 

[lawrence]

is he really 6 feet 5 and a 175 lbs? I thought Petey was skinny as hell being 6'2 and 175, let alone 6'5 and 175.

 

[BimJenning]

Maybe the NHL has actually gotten intelligent, but the Ekholm/Tanev crowd have never been valued like this. This is my concern with the payment here

 

[credulous]

I think my point stands though. Your argument relies on the technically true fact that the Canucks received NY’s first round pick. But I think we both agree that it was effectively a three way trade and that we never actually dumped futures for a player.

But, like, I agree with your view point. I’d rather a more longer term outlook.

all that matters is whether the canucks could have kept the pick. they clearly could have given pittsburgh didn't send anything the rangers way in the "three way trade" you insist happened

i like pettersson in the short(ish) term but he's not a guy i'd sign to a long contract. he relies on his mobility and he's already slowing down. he could be horror show bad in three years

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I mean in-season. Once the Pens had a bad start, it was very obvious they were going to be in sell-mode. And they started selling almost immediately.

They could have made the (IMO seemingly inevitable) Pettersson deal a lot earlier and potentially saved themselves a lot of drama. They did not.

I think the reasons why Allvin didn't trade for M. Petterson earlier was 1) we didn't have the cap space earlier. The JTM trade plus dumping Heinen/Desharnais opened up the cap space to do this trade, and 2) MP was injured for most of December, so there was a period where it wasn't possible to trade for him.

You can argue Allvin could've dump Heinen and Desharnais on Pittsburgh in say November instead of watching the D struggled for months and do nothing. That's a valid criticism. But I think they believe that they were able to ride it out until they accrued the required cap space to trade for a D upgrade and still be successful. It wasn't until the whole Miller v Petterson rift becoming untenable that forced them to pivot, IMO.

 

[bossram]

I think the reasons why Allvin didn't trade for M. Petterson earlier was 1) we didn't have the cap space earlier. The JTM trade plus dumping Heinen/Desharnais opened up the cap space to do this trade, and 2) MP was injured for most of December, so there was a period where it wasn't possible to trade for him.

You can argue Allvin could've dump Heinen and Desharnais on Pittsburgh in say November instead of watching the D struggled for months and do nothing. That's a valid criticism. But I think they believe that they were able to ride it out until they accrued the required cap space to trade for a D upgrade and still be successful. It wasn't until the whole Miller v Petterson debacle that forced them to pivot, IMO.

1. If PIT was willing to take on Heinen and Vinny D as dumps all along, then cap space would never have been an issue with Pettersson.

2. Pettersson's played 48 games. He was injured for a very short stretch during December - and part of it was the Christmas break. That is it. He barely missed any time.

Allvin/JR should have been acquiring Pettersson as soon as Hronek went down.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

1. If PIT was willing to take on Heinen and Vinny D as dumps all along, then cap space would never have been an issue with Pettersson.

2. Pettersson's played 48 games. He was injured for a very short stretch during December - and part of it was the Christmas break. That is it. He barely missed any time.

Allvin/JR should have been acquiring Pettersson as soon as Hronek went down.

With what first and would that be an easy sell to Aquilini? Not that I disagree.

 

[VanJack]

It's being reported that both Marcus Pettersson and Filip Chytil are pumped about coming to the Canucks......finally, guys who are actually positive about being in Vancouver.

It'll be like a breath of fresh air through this Canucks room.

 

[me2]

I think any defenseman of this calibre would command a 1st in this trade market. I'm reasonably confident they'll re-sign Pettersson, but a younger, cost-controlled defenseman should cost considerably more.

Part of my issue is they should have held on to NYR's pick, and traded their own.

I'm not convinced our pick won't be better. NYR would improve with Miller and might be back in the playoffs next year.

Meanwhile the Canucks are a mystery box next year
Petterson rebound
Marcus Peterson ufa
Hronek made of glass
Chytil glass noggin
Demo is broken glass
Trade Boese and ????
No Miller points

If a eam is likely to implode next year it is Vancouver. OTOH it needs a lot of stuff going right for it to have any chance of going well. Keeping Vancouver's pick makes more sense as you can control your future to some degree.

 

[me2]

It's being reported that both Marcus Pettersson and Filip Chytil are pumped about coming to the Canucks......finally, guys who are actually positive about being in Vancouver.

It'll be like a breath of fresh air through this Canucks room.

So you're say Marcus Petterson was going to sign here as a UFA.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

It's very simple. We lost 5-3 after making the trade with scraps, they lost 6-3 today *with* their new superstar acquisition. The team we lost to is Contender tier. Boston...isn't...anymore.

I think we're in better shape than the Rangers. That's provided Brock Boeser even wants to be here anymore.

Soucy and a 2026 1st for Cozens? Anyone? The 1st itself is a better bet to get done but someone went and thought a multi-year deal on Poolman wasn't a bad idea.

 

[TruGr1t]

I think any defenseman of this calibre would command a 1st in this trade market. I'm reasonably confident they'll re-sign Pettersson, but a younger, cost-controlled defenseman should cost considerably more.

Part of my issue is they should have held on to NYR's pick, and traded their own.

I think that pick was a goner regardless, I just wonder if they could have packaged it with something else for a better fit in terms of age and contract. I think what probably tilted the scales was the salary dump aspect of the trade, it’s pretty handy to ditch Heinen and Desharnais all at once.

 

[VanJack]

Pretty apparent that Dubas and the Pens had drawn a line in the sand when it came to Marcus Pettersson......it was either going to cost you a first round pick, or you weren't getting him.

So the first rounder the Rangers probably were loathe to include in the Miller trade made the Pens deal possible. And they dumped the second year of the contracts for both Heinen and Desharnais to clear even more cap space.

A nice piece of work by Allvin there.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

To an extent, they have. But we also just lost an 80-100 point centre on an already anemic offensive team while replacing him with a 50ish point centre.

Unfortunately, I think we are in for some very low event and boring hockey.

Thats what we've had for +80 games now.

 

[LuckyDay]

I don't mind paying the guy what he's due, I just get concerned about overpaying based on his leverage and for what he brings...if we're getting into the $6.5-$7.5m range, I'm not sure that's very good value for his skillset. He might fit like a glove and be everything we need and more and my concerns could be totally unwarranted...hoping so.

Because of the projected salary cap announcement, with it showing a rise by 7-11m a year for the next three years, the league is going to be in a lot of trouble. The current CBA is extended to the 2025-26 season. Teams and agents are going to be negotiating based on those projections, which is the point of announcing them.

The biggest thing is there's no guarantee it can maintain what was paid for the broadcast rights. And then your buddy Bettman is going to have to retire soon for health reasons that he's finally willing to admit. Its been embarrassing the way the sports media has ignored it.

One amendment the league needs to crack down on is to cap these overly long contracts - maybe limit them to five years depending on current age. AFAIK there's still the loophole of retirement and how it affects the team's salary cap.

 

[rypper]

Why would he sign? He can just wait it out and see what gms will throw with the news of the increase salary cap

Embarrassing trade

 

[timw33]

Why would he sign? He can just wait it out and see what gms will throw with the news of the increase salary cap

Embarrassing trade

Or you blunder securing the bag and misread the market like Klingberg's agent, or blow your knee out before July 1 and lose out on it all.

If they feel it's a mutual fit and are being offered a fair contract that secures his financial future, you bet he'll be signing.

 

[bossram]

With what first and would that be an easy sell to Aquilini? Not that I disagree.

Their own first. I've said that a few times.

 

[bossram]

I'm not convinced our pick won't be better. NYR would improve with Miller and might be back in the playoffs next year.

Meanwhile the Canucks are a mystery box next year
Petterson rebound
Marcus Peterson ufa
Hronek made of glass
Chytil glass noggin
Demo is broken glass
Trade Boese and ????
No Miller points

If a eam is likely to implode next year it is Vancouver. OTOH it needs a lot of stuff going right for it to have any chance of going well. Keeping Vancouver's pick makes more sense as you can control your future to some degree.

Most of NYR's core is old. There is definitely a real chance they drop off hard. Zib is already cooked and Kreider's slowing down. A Shesty injury drops them to lottery contention overnight.

And again, I was not talking about VAN's 2026 1st. I was talking about their 1st this year.

I think that pick was a goner regardless, I just wonder if they could have packaged it with something else for a better fit in terms of age and contract. I think what probably tilted the scales was the salary dump aspect of the trade, it’s pretty handy to ditch Heinen and Desharnais all at once.

You're probably right on all points here.

I'm just saying that I think Allvin/JR thinking of the NYR pick as some kind of freeroll was fundamentally a bad mistake. That pick has some potential to be extremely valuable and they did not value it correctly.

 

[Ernie]

wrong thread