Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYR] JT Miller, Erik Brannstrom, & Jackson Dorrington for Filip Chytil, Victor Mancini, and 1st 2025 (Top-13 Protected, Unprotected after)

[Svencouver]

The fact that Miller was traded and not Pettersson doesn’t mean that Pettersson wasn’t an issue in his own way, and Allvin’s own comments calling him out in December confirm this.

You can easily just look at the age and likely improvement of Pettersson and likely decline of Miller to justify the trading of Pettersson over Miller.

Personally, I don’t think one needs to be “worse” than the other. They each had/have issues. By the sound of it, Miller is uber competitive and can be hard on his teammates as a result, and seems to be unable to restrain his own emotions. Pettersson seems to have effort/compete/preparation issues as confirmed by his own GM. Both of those are problematic and it’s actually not hard to see why, in addition to personality differences, they didn’t get along.

I think everything actually points to management and coaching actually preferring Miller’s will to win and attitude in that regard, but I also think it’s clear that Millet just couldn’t leave Petey alone despite Tochett telling him to worry about himself. And I think that was management and coaching’s biggest issue - Miller repeatedly ignoring them.

The difference is that Pettersson's issues affect his performance while Millers seem to affect everyone's performance. Sure, as a team, you're hampered by your 11 million dollar franchise 1C struggling and not contributing as much as he should, but he's never going to be outright toxic like Miller was

 

[pitseleh]

I think you are right that there is a small inconsistency. But I think you can reasonably say that Miller was”reasonably” hard on Pettersson, in isolation, for his lack of preparation/compete, etc., but that he wasn’t behaving reasonably given that they already had an issue and given that, most likely, Tochett had told him to cut it out.

Again, as I have theorized, I think the big issue was Miller consistently not following directions from coaching and becoming a distraction for the team, and that’s probably what led to the blow up, the LOA and departure.

But I don’t doubt that they each had friends, and I also kind of doubt there was some big rift in the room. I bet they were each liked by most.

I think that is probably right, though the only reason I’m not confident is the fact they were willing to trade Pettersson instead. If the blow up was that bad you’d assume they’d be moving Miller ASAP.

 

[Hodgy]

I think that is probably right, though the only reason I’m not confident is the fact they were willing to trade Pettersson instead. If the blow up was that bad you’d assume they’d be moving Miller ASAP.

To management, I think that Pettersson’s attitude has been, in many ways, more concerning than Miller’s issues.

Keep in mind the LOA/blow up happened relatively earlier in the year. It wasn’t for a month or so afterwards that Allvin made his comments about Pettersson. So perhaps the original plan was to trade Miller at the time of the LOA, but Pettersson’s continued poor play, which to management was an indication of his poor preparation and mindset, made them more concerned about Pettersson as time went on leading them to consider trading Pettersson.

 

[God]

I find the pro-Pettersson crowd has really glazed over the public criticism dished out by Allvin in December. It seems to be almost totally disregarded. But it’s probably why Miller was so hard on Pettersson this season.

Yeah, we have had multiple call outs by Allvin and now Rutherford too, and this is also the third time that Pettersson has basically been a ghost of himself. First time wrist injury, fine. Second time Benning f***ing the team up for years, fine. Third time with the team on a heater and watching his peers with injuries (Draisaitl) outperform him in the playoffs... patience starts to wear thin, and I'm shocked more people are still lining up to defend him.

 

[pitseleh]

To management, I think that Pettersson’s attitude has been, in many ways, more concerning than Miller’s issues.

Keep in mind the LOA/blow up happened relatively earlier in the year. It wasn’t for a month or so afterwards that Allvin made his comments about Pettersson. So perhaps the original plan was to trade Miller at the time of the LOA, but Pettersson’s continued poor play, which to management was an indication of his poor preparation and mindset, made them more concerned about Pettersson as time went on leading them to consider trading Pettersson.

Pettersson had 15 points in 10 games after Miller went on leave and his underlying numbers were great, so I’m not sure that explains it.

 

[VanJack]

I know the focus has all been on Pettersson, and how badly he's underperformed the mega-contract he signed a year ago.

But the inconvenient truth is that Miller hasn't been near the player he was a year ago, either. Allvin in his presser hinted that J.T. was grappling with personal issues, and that could explain a lot of it.

But what if last season was a total outlier for Miller? And he really isn't a 100-point guy? And as he moves into his 30's, there's also a chance he never will be again.

 

[Bgav]

good captain hughes, already following chytil on ig lol

 

[Grip it N RYP it]

Someone needs to make a statement and wear #69.

View attachment 970759

I vote for said jersey change to be made by Miles Wood

 

[pitseleh]

Yeah, we have had multiple call outs by Allvin and now Rutherford too, and this is also the third time that Pettersson has basically been a ghost of himself. First time wrist injury, fine. Second time Benning f***ing the team up for years, fine. Third time with the team on a heater and watching his peers with injuries (Draisaitl) outperform him in the playoffs... patience starts to wear thin, and I'm shocked more people are still lining up to defend him.

I’m not sure anyone is defending Pettersson’s preparation. It’s more that even though the team has been vocal about concerns with his preparation, they still decided to trade Miller, with the obvious inference being that he was or did something much worse.

 

[God]

I’m not sure anyone is defending Pettersson’s preparation. It’s more that even though the team has been vocal about concerns with his preparation, they still decided to trade Miller, with the obvious inference being that he was or did something much worse.

It's not about Pettersson's preparation. It's that we've had two or three threads about him with 1000 posts filled with people constantly giving him excuses. And I would understand that if management was echoing the same reasons, but they aren't.

 

[pitseleh]

It's not about Pettersson's preparation. It's that we've had two or three threads about him with 1000 posts filled with people constantly giving him excuses. And I would understand that if management was echoing the same reasons, but they aren't.

I mean, I think it is pretty clear his production is down at least in part because of the team’s play style and the team’s awful defence when Hughes is on the bench. It doesn’t explain the whole drop off but it’s not like Allvin is going to come out and say he built a trash defence or that the coaching staff can’t coach offense.

I don’t think it’s the whole explanation or an excuse for Pettersson also clearly having issues with his preparation.

 

[Nuckles]

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[God]

I mean, I think it is pretty clear his production is down at least in part because of the team’s play style and the team’s awful defence when Hughes is on the bench. It doesn’t explain the whole drop off but it’s not like Allvin is going to come out and say he built a trash defence or that the coaching staff can’t coach offense.

I don’t think it’s the whole explanation or an excuse for Pettersson also clearly having issues with his preparation.

Sure, there are obviously valid reasons surrounding his decline. The point is that people seem to ignore when these valid reasons are brought up by management, and revert to things like "JT plays with Hughes and Pettersson doesn't" when the difference last year was 27 minutes of 5v5 time over ~1000 minutes per season, and we really shouldn't have to require an 11.6M centre to need to play with a generational defenseman in order to create offense.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I don’t get how you can be confident in that thought as if there wasn’t almost a deal with EP going to Carolina for Necas and stuff a week ago or whatever.

But he didn’t. I think the ask from them was a lot; overpayment. I also don’t believe everything the media says, and even if what they say they heard is true, wasn’t intentionally informed for the aforementioned reasons (posturing).

Locker room was called a "clubhouse" not that long ago. Pettersson is a huge reason for that label.

Oh yeah? Seems like a massive presumption.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I know the focus has all been on Pettersson, and how badly he's underperformed the mega-contract he signed a year ago.

But the inconvenient truth is that Miller hasn't been near the player he was a year ago, either. Allvin in his presser hinted that J.T. was grappling with personal issues, and that could explain a lot of it.

But what if last season was a total outlier for Miller? And he really isn't a 100-point guy? And as he moves into his 30's, there's also a chance he never will be again.

Miller has a 103 point and a 99 point season, so he's certainly a more proven 100-point player than Pettersson.

He's averaged 89 points per 82 games with the Canucks, so moving forward the expectation should be that he'd be a ~PPG player, around 75-85 points sounds about right.

Even in this season, his "worst" as a Canuck, he's on pace for 74 points over 82 games.

PPG for 8 million is an absolute steal. Extremely good value with the cap going up. Especially when you factor in his faceoff prowess, physical game and ability to be a lock down defender against elite centers in big games, like the playoffs.

Miller does not need to be a 100 point player again, nor should anyone expect him to. Those expectations are reserved for the 5th highest player in the National Hockey League.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The fact that Miller was traded and not Pettersson doesn’t mean that Pettersson wasn’t an issue in his own way, and Allvin’s own comments calling him out in December confirm this.

You can easily just look at the age and likely improvement of Pettersson and likely decline of Miller to justify the trading of Pettersson over Miller.

Personally, I don’t think one needs to be “worse” than the other. They each had/have issues. By the sound of it, Miller is uber competitive and can be hard on his teammates as a result, and seems to be unable to restrain his own emotions. Pettersson seems to have effort/compete/preparation issues as confirmed by his own GM. Both of those are problematic and it’s actually not hard to see why, in addition to personality differences, they didn’t get along.

I think everything actually points to management and coaching actually preferring Miller’s will to win and attitude in that regard, but I also think it’s clear that Millet just couldn’t leave Petey alone despite Tochett telling him to worry about himself. And I think that was management and coaching’s biggest issue - Miller repeatedly ignoring them.

To be clear: A claim that both were equally responsible or culpable for negatively affecting the room was made. Not that Pettersson was an issue. He could still be that and be nowhere near the disruption Miller had been. Take "equal" out of it, and there's little contention. Equal is the narrative.

Horvat was traded over Miller despite being 2 years younger and was the captain. They chose Miller's production over Horvat's youth and character.

It was fair for Allvin to call out Pettersson for his play, but it was also fair for Pettersson to prioritize his own health regardless of Allvin's perception.

Last, we are at a point now where given everything that has occurred, we have to question the authority of JR/Allvin/Tocchet with regards to Pettersson/Miller. They had a clear preference for Miller, and they had clearly lost Pettersson. They allowed this situation to occur, even encouraged it, and then took no accountability for it. These are not the people I would trust in this situation.

Frankly, I'm surprised (in reality, unsurprised) more people are not challenging the spurious assessment of equal culpability. Like, what have you been reading? There must be some smoking gun article or intel out there that we are not aware of. It's nonsense.

 

[Big zZz]

To be clear: A claim that both were equally responsible or culpable for negatively affecting the room was made. Not that Pettersson was an issue. He could still be that and be nowhere near the disruption Miller had been. Take "equal" out of it, and there's little contention. Equal is the narrative.

Horvat was traded over Miller despite being 2 years younger and was the captain. They chose Miller's production over Horvat's youth and character.

It was fair for Allvin to call out Pettersson for his play, but it was also fair for Pettersson to prioritize his own health regardless of Allvin's perception.

Last, we are at a point now where given everything that has occurred, we have to question the authority of JR/Allvin/Tocchet with regards to Pettersson/Miller. They had a clear preference for Miller, and they had clearly lost Pettersson. They allowed this situation to occur, even encouraged it, and then took no accountability for it. These are not the people I would trust in this situation.

Frankly, I'm surprised (in reality, unsurprised) more people are not challenging the spurious assessment of equal culpability. Like, what have you been reading? There must be some smoking gun article or intel out there that we are not aware of. It's nonsense.

This perfectly sums up how I feel. Kudos to you for finding a intelligent way to put them into words.

 

[Nick Lang]

Sure, there are obviously valid reasons surrounding his decline. The point is that people seem to ignore when these valid reasons are brought up by management, and revert to things like "JT plays with Hughes and Pettersson doesn't" when the difference last year was 27 minutes of 5v5 time over ~1000 minutes per season, and we really shouldn't have to require an 11.6M centre to need to play with a generational defenseman in order to create offense.

People who say this line driving stuff narrative don't really get the finer points of hockey.

 

[Zaddy91]

I am out in Boston for a company event, having a box (great viewing) at today's Rangers Bruins game. I just found out, I am lucky and the Rangers expect JTM here and to suit up for the game this afternoon. I am a huge fan of JT Miller and am super excited to watch him like a hawk the whole game. We are also lucky to have Nick Fotiu (ex NY Ranger) join us in our box again this year and he is great to talk with and gain insight from.

6-3 Boston oof

 

[Dissonance Jr]

To be clear: A claim that both were equally responsible or culpable for negatively affecting the room was made. Not that Pettersson was an issue. He could still be that and be nowhere near the disruption Miller had been. Take "equal" out of it, and there's little contention. Equal is the narrative.

Horvat was traded over Miller despite being 2 years younger and was the captain. They chose Miller's production over Horvat's youth and character.

It was fair for Allvin to call out Pettersson for his play, but it was also fair for Pettersson to prioritize his own health regardless of Allvin's perception.

Last, we are at a point now where given everything that has occurred, we have to question the authority of JR/Allvin/Tocchet with regards to Pettersson/Miller. They had a clear preference for Miller, and they had clearly lost Pettersson. They allowed this situation to occur, even encouraged it, and then took no accountability for it. These are not the people I would trust in this situation.

Frankly, I'm surprised (in reality, unsurprised) more people are not challenging the spurious assessment of equal culpability. Like, what have you been reading? There must be some smoking gun article or intel out there that we are not aware of. It's nonsense.

One of the team’s beat reporters, Thomas Drance, said it explicitly:

Don’t misinterpret the club’s actions on Friday as “blaming Miller” for the chemistry issues that caused the club to determine that they couldn’t move forward with both Miller and Pettersson.

Miller and Pettersson are equally at fault for what’s transpired here. I can’t remember ever encountering a situation quite like it across 15 years of covering and working in the sport.

Maybe he’s just making that up or is wildly uninformed but I doubt it.

 

[Hodgy]

To be clear: A claim that both were equally responsible or culpable for negatively affecting the room was made. Not that Pettersson was an issue. He could still be that and be nowhere near the disruption Miller had been. Take "equal" out of it, and there's little contention. Equal is the narrative.

Trying to ascribe the exact amount each is culpable is a fools errand. Because it’s more complicated than just their relationship and Miller being overly hard on him. Because you need to consider that Pettersson seems to have been not preparing well enough, and not being a good enough pro, or however you want to describe it, and Miller holding him accountable isn’t really unreasonable. And Allvin alluded to this in his press conference. He seemed to have praised Miller holding his teammates accountable.

And obviously things just festered from there, and I don’t doubt that Miller probably wouldn’t leave Pettersson alone despite being told to.

Horvat was traded over Miller despite being 2 years younger and was the captain. They chose Miller's production over Horvat's youth and character.

This is a false dichotomy. We dont know that they “chose” Miller. It’s just as conceivable that they wanted to re-sign both and were playing hardball with Miller, and when magically scored 50 goals they knew they had to trade him because they didn’t want to pay him based on a totally unsustainable and unprecedented pace.

It was fair for Allvin to call out Pettersson for his play, but it was also fair for Pettersson to prioritize his own health regardless of Allvin's perception.

I don’t know what you are even getting at. Pettersson seems to agree with Allvin on the criticism.

Last, we are at a point now where given everything that has occurred, we have to question the authority of JR/Allvin/Tocchet with regards to Pettersson/Miller. They had a clear preference for Miller, and they had clearly lost Pettersson. They allowed this situation to occur, even encouraged it, and then took no accountability for it. These are not the people I would trust in this situation.

I think they generally preferred Miller’s attitude, preparation and drive to win. And you can’t blame them. But they also didn’t put up with his shit as well which seems to have led to the LOA. So I don’t really seem them being bias. I know you are a big Pettersson fan so perhaps your perspective is why you see a bias.

Frankly, I'm surprised (in reality, unsurprised) more people are not challenging the spurious assessment of equal culpability. Like, what have you been reading? There must be some smoking gun article or intel out there that we are not aware of. It's nonsense.

I think there are some big Pettersson fans that view things one way, and I think most of the balance thinks they are both blameworthy. Again, trying to ascribe the exact portions of blame is a fools errand and quite literally impossible.

 

[Hit the post]

Look, whatever happens going forward, the most important thing is that we allocate blame precisely.
Miller - 62%
Pettersson - 38%

Miller - 5%
Pettersson - 5%
Mike Gillis - 90%

 

[Nick Lang]

I mean, Miller obviously crossed some sort of line in November in response to his benching.

There are probably 4 separate things in play here :

1) The Miller-Pettersson relationship, whatever that was.

2) The Miller blowup, which might not have had anything to do with Pettersson directly.

3) The relative age and contracts of the players and who makes more sense to move from a business perspective.

4) The fact that post-blowup, Miller (who had always been the guy who had seemingly been more committed to staying here) was more than happy to get away from the media circus while Pettersson said he wanted to stay.

It's pretty difficult to say 'Miller was traded because he was judged to be the more culpable in the Pettersson relationship' when you have all this other stuff going on.

Miller's a bitch.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Don’t use vehicle as an analogy

Stocks/shares is better, but more dehumanizing.

 

[Ernie]

I know the focus has all been on Pettersson, and how badly he's underperformed the mega-contract he signed a year ago.

But the inconvenient truth is that Miller hasn't been near the player he was a year ago, either. Allvin in his presser hinted that J.T. was grappling with personal issues, and that could explain a lot of it.

But what if last season was a total outlier for Miller? And he really isn't a 100-point guy? And as he moves into his 30's, there's also a chance he never will be again.

Rule of thumb: if a player has a down season in his 20's, he'll probably bounce back. If a player has a down season in his 30's, that's probably the new normal.