Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYR] JT Miller, Erik Brannstrom, & Jackson Dorrington for Filip Chytil, Victor Mancini, and 1st 2025 (Top-13 Protected, Unprotected after)

[pitseleh]

I mean, Miller obviously crossed some sort of line in November in response to his benching.

There are probably 4 separate things in play here :

1) The Miller-Pettersson relationship, whatever that was.

2) The Miller blowup, which might not have had anything to do with Pettersson directly.

3) The relative age and contracts of the players and who makes more sense to move from a business perspective.

4) The fact that post-blowup, Miller (who had always been the guy who had seemingly been more committed to staying here) was more than happy to get away from the media circus while Pettersson said he wanted to stay.

It's pretty difficult to say 'Miller was traded because he was judged to be the more culpable in the Pettersson relationship' when you have all this other stuff going on.

I agree with the last statement - I don’t think we should take anything about culpability for the Miller-Pettersson relationship away from the fact Miller was traded.

What I am struggling with is the idea that 1) he was justified in being hard on Pettersson because the latter was out of shape / lazy / etc, 2) he was friends with most of the team while Pettersson has a small circle, and 3) the team still decided to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

Even if you assume the team views Miller and Pettersson as equally culpable in their relationship, which seems to be the case given the public info, that suggests Miller crossed a line with Pettersson too. But then 1 doesn’t tip the scales one way or another.

3 seems tenuous because they’ve also emphasized the need to compete in the short term to keep Hughes around, and with the return they could have got for Pettersson they would have been in much better shape for doing so. Especially if doing so is going to piss off a bunch of players whose buddy just got traded to keep the malcontent loner around - seems like a good way to ruin team chemistry.

4 is too late to be explanatory because they were already looking to move Miller in November.

To me that leaves your item 2, something else entirely between Miller and teammates, or management is dumb. I don’t buy management being dumb, so either 2 was really bad, or there is more to the story we haven’t heard between Miller and at least some others.

 

[Another Empty Netter]

I know someone who knows him... Can confirm lol. (Grain for salt)

Hey now

 

[Hodgy]

I find the pro-Pettersson crowd has really glazed over the public criticism dished out by Allvin in December. It seems to be almost totally disregarded. But it’s probably why Miller was so hard on Pettersson this season.

 

[TraderJim]

Locker room was called a "clubhouse" not that long ago. Pettersson is a huge reason for that label.

 

[archangel2]

Locker room was called a "clubhouse" not that long ago. Pettersson is a huge reason for that label.

Most hockey teams call it the locker room, baseball call it the clubhouse

 

[EpochLink]

I find the pro-Pettersson crowd has really glazed over the public criticism dished out by Allvin in December. It seems to be almost totally disregarded. But it’s probably why Miller was so hard on Pettersson this season.

This season? I’m sure it was previous seasons as well.

 

[Dirtyclapper]

Yes, I forgot to mention that.

Pettersson, scoring like a 55 point centre while getting paid 11.6 million, may not have been a very easy deal to get done especially if the Canucks honoured his trade protection.

There's no way we can get rid of that contract now without eating some/alot of it, that's why I don't care where he goes he's getting paid, everyone agreed. Get rid of that contract, he will be a decent #2 c if he feels like it

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Really should have held onto the 1st

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

So how long until more details about the JT/EP/JT in general situation come to light?

 

[Wisp]

It's (J.) Miller time!

 

[Bleach Clean]

Pettersson apparently came a hair away from being dealt a week ago before Colorado came off the top rope with Rantanen. If Pettersson would have been dealt, does that someone mean that he was the prime culprit?

Like I said, there's a lot going on here.

I suspect that Pettersson and his behaviour/commitment/preparation was considered a much bigger problem by the team prior to November and then Miller went and did something stupid to leapfrog Pettersson. Both guys are to blame, no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise.

If Pettersson had been dealt, I would have a lot more time for the theory that they were equal culprits. As is, there's far more to suggest that there was a disparity between how each was perceived behind the scenes. Again, Cam Robinson (an actual insider)

Is Pettersson faultless? Probably not. But the culprit? An equal? The evidence suggests otherwise. As does the history of Miller.

You will have to work a lot harder than you have to equate the two. I'm open to it. Present all of your evidence and I will do the same. But if you can't, then expect opposition to the narrative you're trying to support.

 

[Wisp]

So how long until more details about the JT/EP/JT in general situation come to light?

I still think this is an escalation about whatever happened after Nasville benching rather than an active ongoing spat with Petey. @MS touched on that a little.

His issues with Pettersson are probably less an active fight and more tension from a past conflict limiting team cohesion.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I don't know if it was management or coaching that had Miller try to get Pettersson going. Question is why the hell would you have Miller do it when their beef was known?

 

[Wisp]

Pettersson apparently came a hair away from being dealt a week ago before Colorado came off the top rope with Rantanen.

The suspect the appeal with the deal with Carolina is it was the only team able and willing to offer an actual high quality center back in a trade.

 

[mriswith]

It's (J.) Miller time!
View attachment 971043

Top right JT with 2 goals.

Just for clarity's sake, I blame mgmt 1st and foremost for it coming to this. Their handling of Pettersson ever since he got injured in Jan has been unbelievably dumb and it bled over into JT getting forced out.

Asking him to get on EP's ass at the beginning of the season was so monumentally stupid and out of touch, and I really think this was the moment where they lost control and things became irreversible.

Mgmt's narrative on why the season has gone sour is also either monumentally stupid or, the real truth with 99% certainty, intentionally misdirecting blame from their own incompetence with the d and JT ended up being the sacrifical lamb for it.

We should have been able to keep both

 

[Wisp]

I don't know if it was management or coaching that had Miller try to get Pettersson going. Question is why the hell would you have Miller do it when their beef was known?

I think maybe they made the totally reasonable assumption he'd do it in a way that was professional and adult, as an older mentor sharing his experiences and his growing pains in the NHL... but then he went about in the most dumb American jock way possible.

Like, they alos asked Quinn Hughes to help Pettersson along her. And Quinn Hughes way would probably be to share all the books he reads about pressure and performing at a high level.

 

[ProviesGhost]

I don't know if it was management or coaching that had Miller try to get Pettersson going. Question is why the hell would you have Miller do it when their beef was known?

the quote was "the leadership group" to get him going, but you can see how moronic that would be if the tension was already thick....

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

The GM warned us that he couldn't do his job competently.

If the Vancouver sun cares at all about Vancouver's local sports teams, the entire first page of tomorrow's newspaper should read "fire Rutherford before it's too late."

It's been speculated that Boeser will also be traded. I have my doubts that Vancouver will be getting a player in return that can compete now as well as Boeser can.

Only last week there were rumblings that Demko isn't happy, either

Really need a new GM before you guys get stuck in full blown Kevin Lowe mode.

Lmao.. okay.

Stop believing everything the media tells you. No solid source on either random things you mention here. zero.

 

[ChilliBilly]

So much finger pointing. Don't think we will ever really know.

At this point I think we look for the reset and see what happens. This is a quite different team all of a sudden. Miller's intensity was both useful, and sometimes a burden, which is how it played out.

The end result is I think our team is close to the same talent level that we started the season with, being highly optimistic and pundits saying we were up with the oilers in being a SC fave.

If this group can be productive and cohesive, we could have a decent spring and have reason once again to be optimistic about the playoffs. Overall, we have the talent (yes we could use another forward, so it goes).

 

[valkynax]

I worked with a boss who actively tried to get me fired and hated my guts for about a decade. Never stopped me from doing my job, and with one exception, I was unfailingly polite and professional. My boss eventually got forced out and I’m now the boss. I’d worked for decades to cultivate a reputation as a consummate professional, and I wasn’t going to let this assclown ruin it.

(The one exception was a time they were telling me “you’re not working enough extra hours. You need to show up earlier and stay later”. I was already showing up about 30-45 minutes early each day, and leaving at the same time the rest of the staff did. I said “if I can’t get my job done between the hours of 8:45 and 5:15, I’m not very good at my job”. They flared up and asked “are you saying I’m bad at my job?!” To which I replied “if the shoe fits.” That was a big fight.)

Long after they left, and I was cleaning out their desk, I found a book called “Working with the Enemy: How to work with employees you don’t like, trust or respect”. All the staff agreed it was about me.

Professionalism.

You know, and I for the most part also know what the hell that word means.

Unless Pete is as big of a dimwit as commando Dimbo, it should be abundantly clear that should his subpar performance continue, there will be no silver bullet, there will be no safety net, there will be no one to take the blame.

 

[Hit the post]

Professionalism.

You know, and I for the most part also know what the hell that word means.

Unless Pete is as big of a dimwit as commando Dimbo, it should be abundantly clear that should his subpar performance continue, there will be no silver bullet, there will be no safety net, there will be no one to take the blame.

I would blame "MS"

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Nah man, I've been here every other day for the past week or two.

I even joined you guys for a game thread and cheered you on!

I'm pretty sure I was the only person in the game day thread that believed you guys were going to beat Nashville.

No. You are lost,

 

[Hodgy]

I agree with the last statement - I don’t think we should take anything about culpability for the Miller-Pettersson relationship away from the fact Miller was traded.

What I am struggling with is the idea that 1) he was justified in being hard on Pettersson because the latter was out of shape / lazy / etc, 2) he was friends with most of the team while Pettersson has a small circle, and 3) the team still decided to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

Even if you assume the team views Miller and Pettersson as equally culpable in their relationship, which seems to be the case given the public info, that suggests Miller crossed a line with Pettersson too. But then 1 doesn’t tip the scales one way or another.

3 seems tenuous because they’ve also emphasized the need to compete in the short term to keep Hughes around, and with the return they could have got for Pettersson they would have been in much better shape for doing so. Especially if doing so is going to piss off a bunch of players whose buddy just got traded to keep the malcontent loner around - seems like a good way to ruin team chemistry.

4 is too late to be explanatory because they were already looking to move Miller in November.

To me that leaves your item 2, something else entirely between Miller and teammates, or management is dumb. I don’t buy management being dumb, so either 2 was really bad, or there is more to the story we haven’t heard between Miller and at least some others.

I think you are right that there is a small inconsistency. But I think you can reasonably say that Miller was”reasonably” hard on Pettersson, in isolation, for his lack of preparation/compete, etc., but that he wasn’t behaving reasonably given that they already had an issue and given that, most likely, Tochett had told him to cut it out.

Again, as I have theorized, I think the big issue was Miller consistently not following directions from coaching and becoming a distraction for the team, and that’s probably what led to the blow up, the LOA and departure.

But I don’t doubt that they each had friends, and I also kind of doubt there was some big rift in the room. I bet they were each liked by most.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

The reporting hasn't been keeping Miller instead of Pettersson.

Drance and Dhaliwal have been really firm on this.

Two months ago, they made the call. It's Miller alone or Miller AND Pettersson.

I’m very confident it was never Petterson. (unless it was significant overpayment)

If you’re over the barrel, in a situation like this, and negotiating to trade Miller, you better claim you have the option to trade Pettersson instead.

 

[Peen]

I’m very confident it was never Petterson. (unless it was significant overpayment)

If you’re over the barrel, in a situation like this, and negotiating to trade Miller, you better claim you have the option to trade Pettersson instead.

I don’t get how you can be confident in that thought as if there wasn’t almost a deal with EP going to Carolina for Necas and stuff a week ago or whatever.