Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYR] JT Miller, Erik Brannstrom, & Jackson Dorrington for Filip Chytil, Victor Mancini, and 1st 2025 (Top-13 Protected, Unprotected after)

[Hodgy]

And yet people keep apportioning said blame 50/50? Which is supported with... nothing. His on ice play has been poor. He's an introvert. Management states that the rift is between him and Miller, but what has he actually instigated behind the scenes? Nothing (pre rumour).

Miller was the one sent home for blowing up. Miller is known to have mistreated Pettersson (current rumour and Brad Richardson). Miller is the aggressor.

I think it’s clear Miller can expect too much from his teammates, and I think it’s clear that Miller was hard on Pettersson. What you are glossing over is that, at least initially, there appears to be good reason for this. Allvin has already confirmed Pettersson was not preparing well enough and putting in the kind of effort required to succeed, and Pettersson has basically agreed. And this accords with the Halford and Brough rumour that Pettersson came into camp out of shape.

So, Pettersson isn’t this totally innocent party as you make him out to be. Players hold other players accountable. This is reasonable. And it appears that a lot of the friction came from Miller trying to hold Pettersson accountable for his lack of preparation and resulting poor play. And that in and of itself isn’t unreasonable.

Personally, I think Miller kept on being hard on Pettersson and their relationship continued to degrade, coaching staff stepped in and told him to knock it off, he didn’t, and that led to the benching and LOA.

If that’s what happened, who is more to blame? Personally, I blame both. I still like Pettersson’s personality more, but I don’t really blame Miller in that context, at least initially. Pettersson sort of started the problem, and Miler certainly ended it. Lots of blame to go around.

Cam Robinson specifically cites Demko and Hughes as being tired with Miller's antics. Is there any such player specific report for Pettersson?

I think it’s clear Miller expects a lot of his teammates and is hard on them. And he’s a strong personality. It seems also clear that he’s popular in the room.

We know that management loved Miller's preparation, drive and production. But they knew his personality too. They still prioritized his offseason re-signing over Horvat (fact).

That’s actually not a fact. The only fact is that they signed Miller and traded Horvat. And I have already given reasons for why that may have been. You don’t need to read in prioritization, although that may have been the case.

They may have wanted both, but thought more of Miller. They then let his personality loose on Pettersson. This is with the Horvat vs Miller rumour as the backdrop. Few have questioned management's judgement here. And yet, they're the proper litmus test to Pettersson's preparation? Don't make me laugh.

I mean, that’s just a rumour. And if it’s true, it’s more likely that it was coaching vs. management. But I agree it would be a dumb thing to do in the context if true. Personally, I doubt it, given how long this issue has been going on for.

Nobody dared talk about Pettersson's preparation when he put up 102 points as a twig. Unprepared.

I mean, he easily could have become complacent after that season or signing his big contract. Just because your are mentally dialed in and preparing at one point doesn’t mean you always will.

This is just about management controlling for the minor injury impacts he may be suffering. It's his play they want back. It's not about converting Pettersson from a bad teammate to a good one.

This just seems like a conspiracy theory that’s not really worth addressing on its merits.

 

[MS]

Dude… management has been trying to trade miller for what 3 years… but haven’t wanted to trade him for Pennie’s on the dollar. He was traded from NY after getting in a fight with Lunquist, Yzerman supposedly said he would never take him back again after having him in Tampa, he fought with Bo, .schenn and Petey…

Again this isn’t to say Petey doesn’t share some blame, but it’s clear to anyone who actually wants to see Miller was a problem. He is also the one who had to go on a LOA, with rumours of fighting a coach. Like what else do you want to admit he was the primary problem?

I am also positive he will magically look a lot better in NY. And that should drive us all nuts he couldn’t do that this year for us.

And again this isn’t to excuse Petey. He deserves blame in all of this and has been bad this season.

Nobody is denying that Miller was a problem, especially post-blowup.

This is also the 2nd straight year that Pettersson was almost traded. He is also a problem.

Like I said in a prior post, I think Pettersson was considered the greater problem by management until Miller went and did something really stupid in November and leapfrogged him in the Dumb Baby Sweepstakes.

 

[racerjoe]

Nobody is denying that Miller was a problem, especially post-blowup.

This is also the 2nd straight year that Pettersson was almost traded. He is also a problem.

Like I said in a prior post, I think Pettersson was considered the greater problem by management until Miller went and did something really stupid in November and leapfrogged him in the Dumb Baby Sweepstakes.

How the hell can you conclude Pettersson was considered a greater problem?

Trying to lump him almost being traded when he was almost traded because he hadn’t signed a contract yet isn’t the same as almost being traded because you are bumping heads with Horvat…

Again it’s not what people are debating here, it’s debating who has been the problem for at least 3 seasons probably more. Who has the team being trying to move…

If a team had been willing to offer two identical packages for either Miller or Pettersson the team trades Miller. If a two was willing to trade two identical packages for Bo or for Miller, the team trades Miller. If Pits gets their shit together we trade Miller.

The issue hasn’t been should we trade Miller… it’s been value for 3 years and finally it got so bad, not only did they send miller home on a LOA, but they also finally took the crappy trade value.

 

[MS]

How the hell can you conclude Pettersson was considered a greater problem?

Trying to lump him almost being traded when he was almost traded because he hadn’t signed a contract yet isn’t the same as almost being traded because you are bumping heads with Horvat…

Again it’s not what people are debating here, it’s debating who has been the problem for at least 3 seasons probably more. Who has the team being trying to move…

If a team had been willing to offer two identical packages for either Miller or Pettersson the team trades Miller. If a two was willing to trade two identical packages for Bo or for Miller, the team trades Miller. If Pits gets their shit together we trade Miller.

The issue hasn’t been should we trade Miller… it’s been value for 3 years and finally it got so bad, not only did they send miller home on a LOA, but they also finally took the crappy trade value.

1) Spent whole season last year causing a distraction about his contract.

2) Almost traded at the deadline last year.

3) Completely disappeared after signing his contract and pulled a total no-show during playoffs.

4) Shows up for camp out of shape and continues to play terribly.

Like, management is clearly pulling their hair out with this guy, and this is also not the first time a sequence of events like this has happened with Pettersson. They've publicly called him out on multiple occasions. Reports were that they had even asked Hughes and Miller to try and push him to get him going. Then Miller screws up and becomes the bigger problem/distraction.

 

[Nick Lang]

I find the pro-Pettersson crowd has really glazed over the public criticism dished out by Allvin in December. It seems to be almost totally disregarded. But it’s probably why Miller was so hard on Pettersson this season.

Allvin could have and was most likely just answering a question and not making some profound criticism. He came in to camp a little out of shape, and we all know he can be a better player. Like Joshua last year and Miller most years but I don't buy it was some massive calling out from management. Simply a GM saying more is expected.

 

[racerjoe]

1) Spent whole season last year causing a distraction about his contract.

2) Almost traded at the deadline last year.

3) Completely disappeared after signing his contract and pulled a total no-show during playoffs.

4) Shows up for camp out of shape and continues to play terribly.

Like, management is clearly pulling their hair out with this guy, and this is also not the first time a sequence of events like this has happened with Pettersson. They've publicly called him out on multiple occasions. Reports were that they had even asked Hughes and Miller to try and push him to get him going. Then Miller screws up and becomes the bigger problem/distraction.

Wow….

So I guess any player who doesn’t sign right away is a problem? Damn that Boeser… Lank, or any countless players!

You mean he disappeared when he was injured? An injury NBA studies have shown takes a year to recover from?

You mean a player who can’t train properly is out of shape?

I don’t mean to absolve Pettersson of all of this, again he certainly deserves some blame, but your reasoning is not great… especially when one player has literally been the problem for at least 3 years, and again if any team in the NHL valued him half as much as he was skilled (make no mistake I conceded how good Miller can be) he would have been traded a long time ago.

I think if management was at all serious at any point about trading Pettersson he would have been traded. Sounds like they would entertain trades for an overpayment, and that did almost happen.

 

[MS]

Wow….

So I guess any player who doesn’t sign right away is a problem? Damn that Boeser… Lank, or any countless players!

You mean he disappeared when he was injured? An injury NBA studies have shown takes a year to recover from?

You mean a player who can’t train properly is out of shape?

I don’t mean to absolve Pettersson of all of this, again he certainly deserves some blame, but your reasoning is not great… especially when one player has literally been the problem for at least 3 years, and again if any team in the NHL valued him half as much as he was skilled (make no mistake I conceded how good Miller can be) he would have been traded a long time ago.

I think if management was at all serious at any point about trading Pettersson he would have been traded. Sounds like they would entertain trades for an overpayment, and that did almost happen.

If you had asked management before Game 1 of the season this year which player's behaviour/commitment/fitness/performance they were more concerned about, who do you think they would have answered with?

 

[Lenny Levino]

View attachment 971326


Hmm... Who could we get from the Rangers?

Not a basketball fan, but this sounds comparable to the Oilers trading McJesus for JT Miller and a pick.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If you had asked management before Game 1 of the season this year which player's behaviour/commitment/fitness/performance they were more concerned about, who do you think they would have answered with?

Hard to say.

Miller has been on one year and off the other.

Also they've tried to trade Miller numerous times.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

1) Spent whole season last year causing a distraction about his contract.

Didnt want the contract negotiations to be a distraction during the season.

2) Almost traded at the deadline last year.

Management threatened to trade him if he didn't negotiate and sign.

3) Completely disappeared after signing his contract and pulled a total no-show during playoffs.

Played through a knee injury that has measurably made him a subpar skater. The often maligned Canucks medical staff likely had their filthy paws there.

4) Shows up for camp out of shape and continues to play terribly.

Knee issue persists and affects his summer training. If only the medical staff had treated it properly last season

Like, management is clearly pulling their hair out with this guy, and this is also not the first time a sequence of events like this has happened with Pettersson. They've publicly called him out on multiple occasions. Reports were that they had even asked Hughes and Miller to try and push him to get him going. Then Miller screws up and becomes the bigger problem/distraction.

Like, MS is clearly pulling his hair out with this guy, trying to come up with what ever spincity bullshit fits his narrative.

 

[MS]

Didnt want the contract negotiations to be a distraction during the season.

Management threatened to trade him if he didn't negotiate and sign.

Played through a knee injury that has measurably made him a subpar skater. The often maligned Canucks medical staff likely had their filthy paws there.

Knee issue persists and affects his summer training. If only the medical staff had treated it properly last season

Like, MS is clearly pulling his hair out with this guy, trying to come up with what ever spincity bullshit fits his narrative.

Yeah, more of the injury BS that the team has constantly downplayed but the fanboys love to use as an excuse.

He literally could not have made his contract situation more of a distraction if he'd tried.

Oh, and you know what makes your Edge stats drop? Showing up to camp out of shape.

I'm not having this discussion again, so you can feel free to respond with as much fanboy nonsense as you want.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah, more of the injury BS that the team has constantly downplayed but the fanboys love to use as an excuse.

He literally could not have made his contract situation more of a distraction if he'd tried.

Oh, and you know what makes your Edge stats drop? Showing up to camp out of shape.

I'm not having this discussion again, so you can feel free to respond with as much fanboy nonsense as you want.

Dont really give any weight to your opinions anymore.

Broken poster.

 

[Ernie]

Whose to blame between EP and JTM doesn't really matter to me. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to know the juicy details about what actually went down (was it more a Jeff Brown-Kirk McLean situation, or more Mark Messier-Pavel Bure) but who was #11 vs #10 isn't overly important.

What matters is EP40 is able to get back to Alien mode; MP## is able to give us one of the better bluelines in the league; and whether GMPA can effectively use the newly minted cap space.

Enough has already been said about the Million Dollar Babies, don't see a need for essays on the degree of blame each get. Now that the deal has been made, who said what to whom matters little.

As an aside for those saying JTM will be a toxic cloud in NYR the first time they have a slump, nah. He'll be his best Miller for at least a couple of years, and give the Rangers a hell of a player. If the toxic comes back it would be down the road after he has earned a spot in the leadership group.

Yep, time to move on, like everyone involved with this clearly wants to do. We're unlikely to find out more until years down the road.

The good news is as long as Quinn Hughes keeps playing at this level, the Canucks are 50% of the way to being a contender. They've taken multiple hits this season with their other star players but nothing they can't come back from.

The #1 thing that needs to happen is Pettersson getting his mojo back. Full stop.

Then they need to find Tocchet some players with teeth up front - Dakota Joshua and Hoglander getting their games back along with Sherwood's emergence helps a lot with that. But they need more. Maybe O'Connor will help too.

They need to get Markus Pettersson under contract. Even if they have to overpay, it'll look fine in the medium term.

They need to find medium and long term solutions to their goaltending. Maybe Demko is a part of that solution, maybe not, but they have to give up the idea that he's the clear #1 for the time being.

They need to move on from Boeser. The medium term outlook for him is likely a 25 goal scorer. The long term outlook is replacement level. He's a very likeable guy but for long stretches has been every bit as frustrating to watch as Pettersson has been this season. It's time to move on and continue the refresh. I don't see him as part of the solution.

They need to bolster the coaching staff. Tocchet has shown his limitations this season, and he needs reinforcements. Rick Bowness worked very well with Vigneault for many years here - they need to find Tocchet his equivalent.

If management can successfully work through this stuff, they will rebuild trust with the fans.

It's hard to watch the team take a step back this season, but they took two steps forward last season, and compared to where they were two seasons ago, things are still looking bright. Things are 1000% better than during the Benning years. Let's see where the season goes, enjoy watching Quinn's sheer brilliance, and try to stay positive.

 

[Nick Lang]

If you had asked management before Game 1 of the season this year which player's behaviour/commitment/fitness/performance they were more concerned about, who do you think they would have answered with?

Miller obviously. The king of bad attitude and not caring when things aren't going his way. Also notorious for coming into camp out of shape and usually plays himself into shape during the first month. HIs fitness is shockingly bad. Have you seen this clown's line changes.

The only one that makes sense is performance considering Petterson's play down the stretch last year.

-------------

This trade is kind of like a godsend anyway. We got the two best years of Miller at $8 mil and we get out of what will become an ugly contract down the road. This whole we should only concentrate on the next two years was a rubbish notion right from the start.

 

[Hodgy]

Yep, time to move on, like everyone involved with this clearly wants to do. We're unlikely to find out more until years down the road.

The good news is as long as Quinn Hughes keeps playing at this level, the Canucks are 50% of the way to being a contender. They've taken multiple hits this season with their other star players but nothing they can't come back from.

The #1 thing that needs to happen is Pettersson getting his mojo back. Full stop.

Then they need to find Tocchet some players with teeth up front - Dakota Joshua and Hoglander getting their games back along with Sherwood's emergence helps a lot with that. But they need more. Maybe O'Connor will help too.

They need to get Markus Pettersson under contract. Even if they have to overpay, it'll look fine in the medium term.

They need to find medium and long term solutions to their goaltending. Maybe Demko is a part of that solution, maybe not, but they have to give up the idea that he's the clear #1 for the time being.

They need to move on from Boeser. The medium term outlook for him is likely a 25 goal scorer. The long term outlook is replacement level. He's a very likeable guy but for long stretches has been every bit as frustrating to watch as Pettersson has been this season. It's time to move on and continue the refresh. I don't see him as part of the solution.

They need to bolster the coaching staff. Tocchet has shown his limitations this season, and he needs reinforcements. Rick Bowness worked very well with Vigneault for many years here - they need to find Tocchet his equivalent.

If management can successfully work through this stuff, they will rebuild trust with the fans.

It's hard to watch the team take a step back this season, but they took two steps forward last season, and compared to where they were two seasons ago, things are still looking bright. Things are 1000% better than during the Benning years. Let's see where the season goes, enjoy watching Quinn's sheer brilliance, and try to stay positive.

Nailed it from my perspective. All is not lost, but it’s going to take some good player development and some good to great transactions to get this team back on course.

 

[Hodgy]

Allvin could have and was most likely just answering a question and not making some profound criticism. He came in to camp a little out of shape, and we all know he can be a better player. Like Joshua last year and Miller most years but I don't buy it was some massive calling out from management. Simply a GM saying more is expected.

Allvin did an interview with Ian MacIntyre who everyone knows is the team’s mouth piece. It was almost certainly scheduled by Allvin, or at the very least accepted by him. The idea that his comments were throw away comments made on the spot is ridiculous. These were carefully considered comments probably made to motivate Pettersson.

And Allvin later echoed his comments yesterday where he again said that Pettersson signed a big contract and has not met Allvin’s expectations.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Allvin did an interview with Ian MacIntyre who everyone knows is the team’s mouth piece. It was almost certainly scheduled by Allvin, or at the very least accepted by him. The idea that his comments were throw away comments made on the spot is ridiculous. These were carefully considered comments probably made to motivate Pettersson.

And Allvin later echoed his comments yesterday where he again said that Pettersson signed a big contract and has not met Allvin’s expectations.

I hope they can fix the relationship between player and management.

 

[ExarKun80]

Are we still doing the both are guilty thing? Miller clashed with multiple players and coaches on 3 teams. I'm shocked that there are still people here who defend him.
Sometimes I regret that Burkie is not our GM because he would have destroyed Miller for all the crap he pulled.

 

[Nick Lang]

Allvin did an interview with Ian MacIntyre who everyone knows is the team’s mouth piece. It was almost certainly scheduled by Allvin, or at the very least accepted by him. The idea that his comments were throw away comments made on the spot is ridiculous. These were carefully considered comments probably made to motivate Pettersson.

And Allvin later echoed his comments yesterday where he again said that Pettersson signed a big contract and has not met Allvin’s expectations.

I don't doubt at all the comments were serious just that's more of an assessment as compared to this scathing criticism some make it out to be. He's not the first player to go through a down period and he won't be the last. It's absolutely meant to motivate but it doesn't provide evidence of much of anything else except we all know he has more to give..

 

[Soups On]

Wow….

So I guess any player who doesn’t sign right away is a problem? Damn that Boeser… Lank, or any countless players!

You mean he disappeared when he was injured? An injury NBA studies have shown takes a year to recover from?

You mean a player who can’t train properly is out of shape?

I don’t mean to absolve Pettersson of all of this, again he certainly deserves some blame, but your reasoning is not great… especially when one player has literally been the problem for at least 3 years, and again if any team in the NHL valued him half as much as he was skilled (make no mistake I conceded how good Miller can be) he would have been traded a long time ago.

I think if management was at all serious at any point about trading Pettersson he would have been traded. Sounds like they would entertain trades for an overpayment, and that did almost happen.

A year to recover from? I don't think that's the case unless there's been a more recent study. For high level athletes, most return to play within 2-3 months and many sooner than they probably should.

I heard someone mention Petey trained around his knee and if this info is taken directly, then they did exactly the wrong thing with his rehab. Relative rest to calm things down, glute/hip dominant loading strategies to offload the patellar tendon while maintaining lower extremity strength and effective motor patterning, and most importantly, progressive loading the patella to eventually plyometric and high impact loading. If he wasn't down heavy box squats and broad jumps in the summer, his trainers f***ed up. Probably given weekly PRP thinking that would heal things up faster smh - data is so finicky there.

This injury is so common in basketball players and volleyball players - they all have to load their quads and almost all return to sport and full capacity.

 

[alternate]

I have unilaterally decided that effective immediately I am imposing a 25% tariff on all JT Miller posts.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A year to recover from? I don't think that's the case unless there's been a more recent study. For high level athletes, most return to play within 2 months and many sooner than they probably should.

Year to have an actual summer of proper training.

I would make an educated guess that he is not the body type to be able to build muscle and strenght while the season is going.

I heard someone mention Petey trained around his knee and if this info is taken directly, then they did exactly the wrong thing with his rehab. Relative rest to calm things down, glute/hip dominant loading strategies to offload the patellar tendon while maintaining lower extremity strength and effective motor patterning, and most importantly, progressive loading the patella to eventually plyometric and high impact loading. If he wasn't down heavy box squats and broad jumps in the summer, his trainers f***ed up. Probably given weekly PRP thinking that would heal things up faster smh - data is so finicky there.

This injury is so common in basketball players and volleyball players - they all have to load their quads and almost all return to sport and full capacity.

This I can agree.

It sounds like EPs summer training is not up to par. As in his physio / trainers / canuck staff who put him on the path.

 

[Hodgy]

I hope they can fix the relationship between player and management.

We don’t really know that the relationship is strained. As far as I can tell, the idea that the relationship is strained relies on the premise that Pettersson thinks or thought his injury was more significant than management thought. But there is no clear evidence that Pettersson ever thought his injury was significant. At best you have his comment about training around it in the summer, but that came in the same interview where he said it was a nagging injury, that he felt no pain, and that his knee was fine. And you can train around a minor injury so that it doesn’t become more serious and goes away. Management clearly doesn’t think it was significant (and they have far more information on it than we do) so it’s weird to me to give a strained interpretation to Pettersson’s comments in his own injury that results in a total inconsistency with Allvin and coaching’s comments. Instead, if you interpret Pettersson as saying his knee injury is minor (which really isn’t unreasonable given what he said) then Pettersson and management and coaching’s comments are all in line.

But anyway, there really isn’t any overt or clear evidence that there is any issue with Pettersson’s relationship with management.

There may, in fact, be an issue. But I just don’t think we have enough evidence to conclude there is. And in fact, I see a real lack of evidence (even rumours).

 

[VancouverJagger]

Yeah, more of the injury BS that the team has constantly downplayed but the fanboys love to use as an excuse.

He literally could not have made his contract situation more of a distraction if he'd tried.

Oh, and you know what makes your Edge stats drop? Showing up to camp out of shape.

I'm not having this discussion again, so you can feel free to respond with as much fanboy nonsense as you want.

What a rough take........lol..............Yeah how much of Petey's contract distractions affected the team last year? I'd say little to none..........The team played pretty well despite this "massive" distraction........or maybe it wasn't really a big deal?

Massive distraction is the microscope the ENTIRE team has been on this year..........Petey's contract and this year........laughable to even put them in the same Universe in terms of distractions.......