Proposal: Van Car

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Please, explain where Virtanen has shown the potential to be anything close to what Lindholm has shown. What context am I missing?

Lindholm is the far better player and plays the more important position.

Did I disagree with that? I do think Lindholm is more valuable.

My point is people like you who rip apart Virtanen, not taking into consideration, that he is only 20, that he is a PWF, which historically take longer to develop, oh and the fact that he plays for a team that is an offensive black hole, even the Canes have outscored them this year.

That was my only point. You acted like the OP offered up a 4th line plug for a superstar, not at all the case.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Did I disagree with that? I do think Lindholm is more valuable.

My point is people like you who rip apart Virtanen, not taking into consideration, that he is only 20, that he is a PWF, which historically take longer to develop, oh and the fact that he plays for a team that is an offensive black hole, even the Canes have outscored them this year.

That was my only point. You acted like the OP offered up a 4th line plug for a superstar, not at all the case.

Don't forget he has a coach that doesn't want to play him. When he does ice time and deployment become limited. Hard for a player to show hhat they can do/get better with this. He needs Utica for the season. He could be a force. that being said, if Lindolm can play RW i think he could do well with Bo.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Don't forget he has a coach that doesn't want to play him. When he does ice time and deployment become limited. Hard for a player to show hhat they can do/get better with this. He needs Utica for the season. He could be a force. that being said, if Lindolm can play RW i think he could do well with Bo.

Totally agree.

 

[Superlative Soup]

I'd do it easily as a Canucks fan which means it's probably not feasible.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Did I disagree with that? I do think Lindholm is more valuable.

My point is people like you who rip apart Virtanen, not taking into consideration, that he is only 20, that he is a PWF, which historically take longer to develop, oh and the fact that he plays for a team that is an offensive black hole, even the Canes have outscored them this year.

That was my only point. You acted like the OP offered up a 4th line plug for a superstar, not at all the case.

I'm fully aware of how old Virtanen is, but you can't use the PWF excuse as it typically applies to guys who are still adjusting to their size and working on their skating. Virtanen doesn't have that issue. His issues all stem from lack of hockey sense.

Lindholm is several classes ahead of Virtanen. He's produced like a 2C the last 2 years playing on a team with even worse scoring troubles. Meanwhile Virtanen has yet to earn a full time spot on one of the worst teams in the league.

It's not close.

 

[GoldiFox]

LOL so you haven't watched him, but feel you that stat watching gives you a good enough indication of what kind of player he is?

I made no comment as to what kind of player he is. Not sure where you got that? I specifically said I handn't watched him to make that clear. My comment was solely about production. I assume little to no Vancouver fans have watched Lindholm as well (which is fine, the Canes are pretty unwatchable).

My only comment regarding "the type of player Virtanen is" is that the Canes could use a big winger with a scoring touch. The knock on Virtanen which I have seen from Vancouver fans is that he lacks some hockey sense. Putting him with a smaller skill guy with playmaking ability like Aho or Teravainen might be a good match. Not exactly a bad comment.

 

[go comets]

I doubt either team is ready to give up on either player.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I'm fully aware of how old Virtanen is, but you can't use the PWF excuse as it typically applies to guys who are still adjusting to their size and working on their skating. Virtanen doesn't have that issue. His issues all stem from lack of hockey sense.

Lindholm is several classes ahead of Virtanen. He's produced like a 2C the last 2 years playing on a team with even worse scoring troubles. Meanwhile Virtanen has yet to earn a full time spot on one of the worst teams in the league.

It's not close.

39 points ain't 2C bud, come on. Lindholm is more valuable I would never deny that.


You can actually use the PWF excuse, because once again he is only 20, Lindholm has played 235 games, Virtanen has played in 65, pretty big discrepancy, Lindholm averaged 7 minutes more a game last year too, another discrepancy. Also if you look at advanced stats, Virtanen was one of the best defensive forwards on our team last year and has been this year too. He is taking longer to find his offensive game, fine, but to say hockey sense is a problem is baffling to me, how is it that you are that good in your own end but you have a hockey sense problem?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I made no comment as to what kind of player he is. Not sure where you got that? I specifically said I handn't watched him to make that clear. My comment was solely about production. I assume little to no Vancouver fans have watched Lindholm as well (which is fine, the Canes are pretty unwatchable).

My only comment regarding "the type of player Virtanen is" is that the Canes could use a big winger with a scoring touch. The knock on Virtanen which I have seen from Vancouver fans is that he lacks some hockey sense. Putting him with a smaller skill guy with playmaking ability like Aho or Teravainen might be a good match. Not exactly a bad comment.

My bad, I agree.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

39 points ain't 2C bud, come on. Lindholm is more valuable I would never deny that.

Lindholm was 58th in points among centers over the past 2 seasons while playing for the Carolina Hurricanes.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...=C&is_playoffs=N&threshhold=5&order_by=points

He was also 4th among Hurricanes forwards in scoring, behind Staal, Rask, and Skinner over the same period.

You can actually use the PWF excuse, because once again he is only 20, Lindholm has played 235 games, Virtanen has played in 65, pretty big discrepancy, Lindholm averaged 7 minutes more a game last year too, another discrepancy. Also if you look at advanced stats, Virtanen was one of the best defensive forwards on our team last year and has been this year too. He is taking longer to find his offensive game, fine, but to say hockey sense is a problem is baffling to me, how is it that you are that good in your own end but you have a hockey sense problem?

Lindholm is only 21, but there is a reason he gets more minutes and has played more games.

Hockey sense is not a one dimensional thing. The fact that he has struggled to produce offense at even the AHL level is concerning and yet another indication of problems with his overall hockey sense. Being good in one area isn't enough, though I'm not fully convinced he's that smart of a defensive player.

Anyways, it seems you agree that Lindholm is indeed the superior asset, we just disagree on the size of the gap. Virtanen has potential, sure, but he's still yet to prove he can be a full time contributing NHL player. And his offensive ceiling is looking less and less of that of a top 6 player.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Wait Canes fans, can you weigh in? I thought he was doing well? I remember he and Nylander were debated a lot on here as being really comparable? Has he fallen off that much?

I'm so confused because this seems really bad for the canes.

 

[DaveG]

Wait Canes fans, can you weigh in? I thought he was doing well? I remember he and Nylander were debated a lot on here as being really comparable? Has he fallen off that much?

I'm so confused because this seems really bad for the canes.

Because it is really bad for the Canes.

Lindholm has been fine this year analytically and from the eye test standpoint, dude's just not producing:



It's not a problem entirely isolated to Lindy on the roster. For instance PDG has IMHO been extremely good... but he's not productive at all offensively right now so he's back in Charlotte to get his scoring touch and his confidence going again.

Anyway, right now we need to be looking to get that winger with size to put with Lindholm, not looking to trade Lindholm to get the winger with size.

 

[Dishface]

At least Lindholm keeps his "stuff" with him.

 

[HisIceness]

At least Lindholm keeps his "stuff" with him.

Damn, beat me to it

 

[Intoewsables]

Pass from Carolina. Lindholm has been a bit disappointing, but at least he has been somewhat effective. Virtanen has shown nothing at the AHL or NHL level.

Not entirely true as Virtanen did have a good stretch post-WJC last year, but this is still an easy yes from Vancouver.

 

[fmrdh]

At least Lindholm keeps his "stuff" with him.

But but... Virtanen doesn't come with any baggage

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

But but... Virtanen doesn't come with any baggage

 

[tarheelhockey]

This trade.

 

[leaflover]

With Virtanen I don't think it's necessarily hockey sense that's his biggest issue. Granted he doesn't show acute hockey sense but he seems to have enough to get by.
I see a lack of discipline followed closely by poor development as his greatest hindrance to this point.

 

[Nuckles]

This trade.

Virtanen is the tough, gritty van and Lindholm is the soft, weak sports car.