Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CAL] Canucks to acquire Lindholm (CAL) for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 1st 2024, & Conditional 4th 2024

[PuckMunchkin]

what if kuzy stayed put. vancouver aquires a defenseman instead of lindholm. ? van wouldnt have trouble scoring goals. with boeser out. maybe kuzy takes mikeyhevs spot. his shot would literally kill skinners confidence. in hindsight. even though tocheet hates kuzy cuz of his non committment to playing defense. thats not his game.

Kuz gives you a line that cant match up against a top 2 line in the playoffs.

Not a great idea.

 

[F A N]

what if kuzy stayed put. vancouver aquires a defenseman instead of lindholm. ? van wouldnt have trouble scoring goals. with boeser out. maybe kuzy takes mikeyhevs spot. his shot would literally kill skinners confidence. in hindsight. even though tocheet hates kuzy cuz of his non committment to playing defense. thats not his game.

Well the Canucks could have put Lindholm on the wing and could do just as well as Kuz.

Given Kuzmenko’s struggles, it’s the type of swap playoff teams make.

 

[David71]

Well the Canucks could have put Lindholm on the wing and could do just as well as Kuz.

Given Kuzmenko’s struggles, it’s the type of swap playoff teams make.

probbaly gets stapled to the bench right after 2 periods of either good play or bad play in the d zone. doesnt matter i guess.

Kuz gives you a line that cant match up against a top 2 line in the playoffs.

Not a great idea.

should have never signed him to a 2 year deal then.

 

[archangel2]

Once the pressure was turned up kuz turtled. For me this was about shedding his contract. He was clearly not tocket player. I think we should have beaten the oilers. Can not say goaltending was the problem as the Latvian stood on his head

 

[lawrence]

Once the pressure was turned up kuz turtled. For me this was about shedding his contract. He was clearly not tocket player. I think we should have beaten the oilers. Can not say goaltending was the problem as the Latvian stood on his head

I do feel we would have beaten them with Demko in net. Love the Latvian prince though. He did his best.

also I felt if Pettersson was at least, the very very very least, and thats a low ask, was a point per game in that series, that 4 extra goals would have helped.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

should have never signed him to a 2 year deal then.

I was called all kinds of names suggesting they should cash in on his trade value at last years TDL.

 

[F A N]

should have never signed him to a 2 year deal then.

The guy was coming off a 39 goal 74 point season alongside Petey who also had a career year. I thought the 2 year deal was a tidy piece of work.

IIRC, Kuzmenko signed his extension shortly after Tocchet came on board and then Tocchet started benching him. So the timing was pretty bad as the team signed Kuzmenko without knowing how he would fit under Tocchet.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

You just know that in the bowels of Rogers Arena the Canucks are wrestling with adding an 8th year in order to retain Lindholm.

Here is a clue, none of you will be in your present jobs in 8 years, so feel to pay the existential 8th year so your team can compete for a Cup for 5 of the 8 years.

 

[F A N]

You just know that in the bowels of Rogers Arena the Canucks are wrestling with adding an 8th year in order to retain Lindholm.

Here is a clue, none of you will be in your present jobs in 8 years, so feel to pay the existential 8th year so your team can compete for a Cup for 5 of the 8 years.

Something similar to Miller's contract with a lower AAV then?

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Something similar to Miller's contract with a lower AAV then?

The professional "outsiders" say he is going to get 56M from other teams. So 8M for 7 years.

The Canucks could offer 7,25M for 8 years and beat all other offers.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Even if he walks

This is still a good trade

He was good for us in the playoffs

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Not only would the team be better off right now by just not making any trade at all, but would likely still be playing if they had taken the painfully obvious route of cutting Mikheyev loose instead.

Between the reports of potentially flipping Lindholm pre-injury, the EP trade/contract, and failure to bring in a winger, after an all in rental center.. this deadline was a total mess.

Will likely continue to kick us in the balls for years to come, even if the masses want to plug their ears and scream 'system, pressure, garbage time!'

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

If Lindholm's game is likely to be anywhere near his career average for the next 5 years the Canucks need to sign him even if the term is 8 years to make the numbers work for him.

No doubt the Canucks Brass and the Media, acting as water carriers for the player agents, are over thinking this.

 

[strattonius]

Not only would the team be better off right now by just not making any trade at all, but would likely still be playing if they had taken the painfully obvious route of cutting Mikheyev loose instead.

Between the reports of potentially flipping Lindholm pre-injury, the EP trade/contract, and failure to bring in a winger, after an all in rental center.. this deadline was a total mess.

Will likely continue to kick us in the balls for years to come, even if the masses want to plug their ears and scream 'system, pressure, garbage time!'

The deadline wasn't a mess at all.

Most of Alvin's trades were done before the deadline approached - and as far as Lindholm went, we maybe wouldn't have beat the Predators and flamed out in the first round had we not had him. Alvin said we didn't have the assets required to fill more holes on the roster, so they prioritized being 3 deep at C with Lindholm instead of a winger.

We had a better than expected team this year, even by our own management's guess. This team and this trade deadline wasn't an all in, sell the farm Stanley Cup look. We grabbed a couple of good players, kept our best prospects and took a swing. Nobody thought this team was flawless and we didn't have the assets to make it that way. I think they (Alvin) prioritized a correct amount of 'chips' to wager this year.

 

[F A N]

Not only would the team be better off right now by just not making any trade at all, but would likely still be playing if they had taken the painfully obvious route of cutting Mikheyev loose instead.

Between the reports of potentially flipping Lindholm pre-injury, the EP trade/contract, and failure to bring in a winger, after an all in rental center.. this deadline was a total mess.

Will likely continue to kick us in the balls for years to come, even if the masses want to plug their ears and scream 'system, pressure, garbage time!'

How is the deadline a mess? It sounds like you're saying we should have pushed in more chips at the deadline but then say we're better off not having made this trade in the first place. So what exactly are you saying the Canucks should have done?

 

[HairyKneel]

Not only would the team be better off right now by just not making any trade at all, but would likely still be playing if they had taken the painfully obvious route of cutting Mikheyev loose instead.

Between the reports of potentially flipping Lindholm pre-injury, the EP trade/contract, and failure to bring in a winger, after an all in rental center.. this deadline was a total mess.

Will likely continue to kick us in the balls for years to come, even if the masses want to plug their ears and scream 'system, pressure, garbage time!'

This post is a total mess.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

How is the deadline a mess? It sounds like you're saying we should have pushed in more chips at the deadline but then say we're better off not having made this trade in the first place. So what exactly are you saying the Canucks should have done?

They chose Mikheyev over Kuz. Just stupid. Lindholm makes Mikheyev pretty redundant regardless of if he plays center or wing. The same can't be said for Kuz.

They recognized the mistake, and had ample time, but had lost too many assets already. With Lindholms injury, Mik's value dropping like rock, they just never addressed it. Mess.

 

[Nucker101]

They chose Mikheyev over Kuz. Just stupid. Lindholm makes Mikheyev pretty redundant regardless of if he plays center or wing. The same can't be said for Kuz.

They recognized the mistake, and had ample time, but had lost too many assets already. With Lindholms injury, Mik's value dropping like rock, they just never addressed it. Mess.

Why are you assuming that Mikheyev was as easy to move as Kuzmenko? How does a skilled winger make a 2-way center that Tocchet trusted in all situations redundant?

You can 100% argue that Lindholm was the wrong target or that they acted too early before the TDL but this other stuff is just based on assumptions.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Why are you assuming that Mikheyev was as easy to move as Kuzmenko? How does a skilled winger make a 2-way center that Tocchet trusted in all situations redundant?

You can 100% argue that Lindholm was the wrong target or that they acted too early before the TDL but this other stuff is just based on assumptions.

Lindholm was a good target.

Mikheyev was brought in as a good penalty killer, and defensively sound winger. With Lindholm playing matchup C, or moving EP to the wing, and taking the bulk of the PK duties, Mik was just no longer needed.

Any Canuck fan can see that EP doesn't drive offence solo like JT does. Any Flame fan can tell you that EL isn't a driver himself. There's no scenario where you aren't in need of scoring player after this deal.

Of course Kuz had more value than Mik, but Mik's value cratered after the trade. He wasn't seen nearly as bad as he is now. No way we can't get a deal done swapping the 2. We already paid the highest price at the deadline, and Lindholm was not having a good season.

I don't see anyone arguing that Kuz was a must have in this deal, because no one really believes it, even if they want to win internet points saying it.

The early options looking to next season is pretty short and unappealing now. Could have been so much different, if the obvious Russian was chosen.

 

[F A N]

They chose Mikheyev over Kuz. Just stupid. Lindholm makes Mikheyev pretty redundant regardless of if he plays center or wing. The same can't be said for Kuz.

They recognized the mistake, and had ample time, but had lost too many assets already. With Lindholms injury, Mik's value dropping like rock, they just never addressed it. Mess.

You make it sound like the Canucks had the same deal on the table and was allowed to choose between giving up Mik or Kuz. I'm not saying Canucks didn't prefer to move Kuzmenko instead, but common sense says they didn't have a choice.

Kuzmenko makes more, but has one less year left on his contract. Additionally, Calgary is probably a whole lot more interested in Kuz than Mik. Calgary got a guy they could sell as a guy who put up 39 goals last year. Certainly, Kuz delivered for the Flames.

Kuzmenko put up 39 goals and 74 points last season. Mik is coming off knee surgery and has a career high of 21 goals and 32 points. Like who would you prefer if you were a Flames fan?

 

[racerjoe]

Lindholm was a good target.

Mikheyev was brought in as a good penalty killer, and defensively sound winger. With Lindholm playing matchup C, or moving EP to the wing, and taking the bulk of the PK duties, Mik was just no longer needed.

Any Canuck fan can see that EP doesn't drive offence solo like JT does. Any Flame fan can tell you that EL isn't a driver himself. There's no scenario where you aren't in need of scoring player after this deal.

Of course Kuz had more value than Mik, but Mik's value cratered after the trade. He wasn't seen nearly as bad as he is now. No way we can't get a deal done swapping the 2. We already paid the highest price at the deadline, and Lindholm was not having a good season.

I don't see anyone arguing that Kuz was a must have in this deal, because no one really believes it, even if they want to win internet points saying it.

The early options looking to next season is pretty short and unappealing now. Could have been so much different, if the obvious Russian was chosen.

I mean... so much to reply, but will just keep it to this... why does Calgary take Mik over Kuz?

 

[CanucksSayEh]

You make it sound like the Canucks had the same deal on the table and was allowed to choose between giving up Mik or Kuz. I'm not saying Canucks didn't prefer to move Kuzmenko instead, but common sense says they didn't have a choice.

Kuzmenko makes more, but has one less year left on his contract. Additionally, Calgary is probably a whole lot more interested in Kuz than Mik. Calgary got a guy they could sell as a guy who put up 39 goals last year. Certainly, Kuz delivered for the Flames.

Kuzmenko put up 39 goals and 74 points last season. Mik is coming off knee surgery and has a career high of 21 goals and 32 points. Like who would you prefer if you were a Flames fan?

I really really hope our brass is more interested about our team needs, vs the preference of Flames fans.

If you believe a deal couldn't be done without giving Kuz up to Calgary, or moving Mik somewhere else, then we just have to agree to disagree.

It is funny and convenient to see the narrative shift towards that however, after the end of season results... rather than at any time before..

It also ignores that Alvin still tried to replace Kuz, via Guentzel or another W, fully knowing there was a problem, but just failed. Mistakes were made either way.

 

[racerjoe]

I really really hope our brass is more interested about our team needs, vs the preference of Flames fans.

If you believe a deal couldn't be done without giving Kuz up to Calgary, then we just have to agree to disagree. It would have been a text book rental price with Mik in his place, or even a small add.

It is funny and convenient to see the narrative shift towards that however, after the end of season results... rather than at the time of the trade..

It also ignores that Alvin still tried to replace Kuz, via Guentzel or another W, fully knowing there was a problem, but just failed. Mistakes were made either way.

Again it takes two teams... so it doesn't matter what the Canucks would prefer if for Calgary it wasn't an option... Like why wouldn't we just have traded that package for Stone... I would hope Alvin would take our team needs into account more than the fans and management of Vegas...

 

[mathonwy]

True story, EP line was totally lost without him. Kuz did a lot of the heavy lifting regarding puck protection, and would break the cycle by actually going to the net. 64 career goals, and at least 50 of them are from inside or on top of the crease. It's nothing but perimeter passing since.

Management also loved Kuz. They targeted him, wined and dined, held him through a playoff miss and swiftly extended him. Alvin is also very high on Lekkermaki.

Whatever people are envisioning, when they think of a "Tocchet type', I wouldn't hold my breath on whoever ends up as Kuz' replacement fitting that mold at all. Most likely, we end up with a worse player, at a higher cap hit, and have to spend further assets to get him. On top of that, whatever the cost of dumping Mik.

This kinda make sense.

Petey liked to play with Kuzmenko because of his gimped knee and Kuz is speedy and great at jumping into holes.

I don't think its a stretch to say Petey's feels are real and maybe he didn't take trading Kuz away very well and got Tanev PTSD vibes.

Lindholm also had a pretty rocky start here moping around and producing nothing ... and so much so the media had to ask what's going on.

---

It SUCKS that Kuz is completely clueless in the dzone but playoffs is about defensive structured hockey I don't trust Kuz and neither should Tocc.

It SUCKS that Petey was injured and needed a winger that was fast enough to compensate and this was not identified until now.

I imagine sharing injury information in a contract season is probably pretty complicated and not done. Hronek denying his own injury kinda reinfores this.

It is what it is. I just hope we can win a cup before Kuz does.

 

[hookshott]

Even if he walks

This is still a good trade

He was good for us in the playoffs

No it wasn't...you are just trying to convince yourself it was!